Alexei full-time at second base?

[whitesoxbrian]

Alexei has been great, especially since he has been given a full time role. In may he hit .295 .313 .443 .755.

Agreed- not to mention he made 3-5 web gems in the TB series.

 

Keep him out there, Ozzie, and sit your boy, Uribe, on the bench, please.

[wsgdf_2]

If you want to talk BP in relation to the Cuban league, you might also want to point out that Silver's PECOTA projection for Alexei's 2008 season with the Sox is:

 

.295/.340/.451 with 13 HRs

 

 

 

 

[whitesoxbrian]

If you want to talk BP in relation to the Cuban league, you might also want to point out that Silver's PECOTA projection for Alexei's 2008 season with the Sox is:

 

.295/.340/.451 with 13 HRs

That was in SI a few months back. It's interesting, but I'd be surprised if he got to that. I wouldn't bet against 18 HR, but .295 will be tough. .275, no so much.

[Cubano]

I read all your posts (they're good btw) and I'm just going to respond as if they were all one. edit: those ERA numbers are really interesting btw.

 

It seems to me that you interpret people comparing the level of competition within Cuba to high A ball to be saying the level of talent of Cuban players is going to be lower as a result. I don't really see it that way - baseball more than any sport (maybe basketball might compare) is a game of development and progression. In order to become better you have to move up to each pro level to face tougher competition and adjust to it or at some point you max out. So Cuban baseball is obviously a higher level than, say, semi-pro or college, but it's not quite AAA (Japan is, IMO). That's not to say at all that Cuban players won't project to MLB well, or aren't talented - just that they're going to take time to get adjusted to facing the best collection of players in the world and also get adjusted to American baseball and lifestyle. Cuban players are good, no doubt (as seen in the Olympics and WBC) but they only face other Cuban players in a diluted league. So the best players from Cuba won't see their full potential there.

 

All this is JMO. That being said, I thought highly of Alexei when he was signed, but I expected him to go through a rough adjustment period if he didn't play in AAA, and he's surprising me right now.

 

I respect your opinion. I disagree that Japanese is better than Cuban league. Japan has the same amount of victories as Cuba since the incepcion of pro players. Ussually, Japan send its best pitcher against Cuba and then looses against other teams. Japan finally won a major tournament when they beat Cuba in the WBC. If Japan is a so called "second majors", why their hitters see their power evaporate so much?

 

How Betancourt, Escobar, Rey Ordonez and Alexei compare with Iguchi, Kaz Matsui and Iwamura?

 

In AAA, Cubans hold their power numbers well as well as in the majors.

 

Ichiro has been the best hitter of all time and I am sure he has been the best leadoff in Japan history.

 

After Cuban changed again to wooden bats, many defectors have had good numbers in their A, AA, AAA or big league debut. Some of course have not done well or done well or so so and do not make it.

 

SS Betancourt hit 300 for the first time in Cuba in his final season. He played 4 season for the Villa Clara Orange. He defected and misssed some time between Mexico and the USA. Seattle sent him to AA and AAA. He debuted in the majors just 3 months after his USA AA debut. Of course, Betancourt had some talent and probably he would have been an star in Cuba by now.

 

SS Escobar was a bench player for Industriales Lions. He made the cuban junior team but he had some discipline issues with his manager. He played 4 season though he did not play much. He had to develop more in A, AA, AAA, AFL (hitting champion) because he did not see much playing time in Cuba.

 

There are other older defectors that despite good numbers since day one have not seen MLB action because their age. Example, Mets Michel Abreu was the best hitter en AA once he debuted. Then, he had to miss another year because of visa trouble. He is now in his 30's and probably his time is gone.

 

Barbaro Canizares (Braves) is still hitting and in AAA.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Cubano

[lostfan]

I respect your opinion. I disagree that Japanese is better than Cuban league. Japan has the same amount of victories as Cuba since the incepcion of pro players. Ussually, Japan send its best pitcher against Cuba and then looses against other teams. Japan finally won a major tournament when they beat Cuba in the WBC. If Japan is a so called "second majors", why their hitters see their power evaporate so much?

Sort of like I was implying but never actually said, it's not that individual Japanese players are better than individual Cuban players (or American players for that matter), it's the diluted talent pool in Cuba. Cuba has ~10-11 million people, Japan is more like 125 million with Cuba having 16 teams at the highest level and Japan having 12. So an ace pitcher from Japan is as good as an ace pitcher from Cuba, but there's just not as many good ace pitchers (or position players) that are going to come out of Cuba, and they're not going to be playing against the more skilled players.

Edited June 2, 2008 by lostfan

[Cubano]

Sort of like I was implying but never actually said, it's not that individual Japanese players are better than individual Cuban players (or American players for that matter), it's the diluted talent pool in Cuba. Cuba has ~10-11 million people, Japan is more like 125 million with Cuba having 16 teams at the highest level and Japan having 12. So an ace pitcher from Japan is as good as an ace pitcher from Cuba, but there's just not as many good ace pitchers (or position players) that are going to come out of Cuba, and they're not going to be playing against the more skilled players.

 

 

It is true that Japan has more population than Cuba, but population along is not the best parameter. Venezuela's population is twice of the Dominican R and has fewer MLB and minor league players. I am trying to convey that cuban defectors have performed at the same level and sometimes better than Japanese import despite the odds (losing time once defecting, etc). Remember, the best Japanese players ussually come and cuban defectors can be anybody. Sometimes the best players do not defect.

 

Cuban junior teams have dominated international competition. You got the best players competing in these junior tournaments becuase they do not belong to any pro team yet. If you are a kid in Cuba and has some talent, you are send to special schools (academies for 5th-12th grades) to train sports.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Cubano

[lostfan]

It is true that Japan has more population than Cuba, but population along is not the best parameter. Venezuela's population is twice of the Dominican R and has fewer MLB and minor league players. I am trying to convey that cuban defectors have performed at the same level and sometimes better than Japanese import despite the odds (losing time once defecting, etc). Remember, the best Japanese players ussually come and cuban defectors can be anybody. Sometimes the best players do not defect.

 

Cuban junior teams have dominated international competition. You got the best players competing in these junior tournaments becuase they do not belong to any pro team yet. If you are a kid in Cuba and has some talent, you are send to special schools (academies for 5th-12th grades) to train sports.

I don't argue that the Cuban players will, at least eventually, perform at the same level or better. I've never doubted that. Talent is talent, and Cuba is a gold mine. I just believe that in most cases, the average Cuban defector tends to be more of a raw product for a little while whereas people seem to expect Japanese players to jump right in without much adjustment.

[Cubano]

So Taguchi

Kaz Matsui

Ideki Irabu

Ken Igawa

Tsuyoshi Shinjo

 

 

These are some Japanese players that have felt short of expectation to say the least. I have more but I do not remember now.

 

 

 

To conclude, you hit right in the money with this:

 

"people seem to expect Japanese players to jump right in without much adjustment."

 

 

MLB and then the media have convey this idea but stats wise and performance wise, it is not true.

 

[joejoesox]

where's shingo at these days? lol

[lostfan]

So Taguchi

Kaz Matsui

Ideki Irabu

Ken Igawa

Tsuyoshi Shinjo

 

 

These are some Japanese players that have felt short of expectation to say the least. I have more but I do not remember now.

 

 

 

To conclude, you hit right in the money with this:

 

"people seem to expect Japanese players to jump right in without much adjustment."

 

 

MLB and then the media have convey this idea but stats wise and performance wise, it is not true.

I'm not saying a Japanese player is guaranteed to be good just because he's Japanese. Japanese players bomb, so do Cubans, so do Americans... that's just part of baseball.

[Cubano]

where's shingo at these days? lol

 

He is a pitching star now.

 

 

Stealing home:

 

 

In youtube, there are a lot of clips from Japanese baseball.

 

 

 

[Cubano]

These are some clips from cuban baseball. The cuban speed gun is obsolete. This year they bought a new one and the technology was incompatible with the TV. The old one is around 3 MPH slower than the scouts speed gun used in the USA. The USA TV and stadium speed guns are on roids.

 

The Industriales Lions and the Santiago de Cuba Wasps are the most emblematic teams in Cuba. Pinar del Rio Green Sox and Villa Clara Orange are two good ones too. My team is like the White Sox. They win once in 60 years. Ha, ha, ha.

 

This game took place in the Coloso del Cerro, the Latinoamericano stadium. Often you see 55,000 fans there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70RxYL7P24o...feature=related

 

Notice how bad the fields are. The bounds are terrible and the defense must be extra alert.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnPJZc36UlY

 

 

Doble play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dkM7Af6fJg...feature=related

Edited June 3, 2008 by Cubano

[lostfan]

Cubano where do you live if you don't mind my asking?

[Chisoxfn]

Cubano, I just want to say welcome aboard. Its great getting to see this sort of perspective about the Cuban league's from someone whose closer to the action.

[southsider2k5]

Cubano, I just want to say welcome aboard. Its great getting to see this sort of perspective about the Cuban league's from someone whose closer to the action.

 

^

 

Always great to get a completely unique perspective on things! Welcome to the site.

[Cubano]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome.

 

I live in the USA. I bought a satelite dish and I watch cuban TV. This is how I follow cuban baseball and also through web sites.

 

I live in West Virginia, but I work in Washington D.C metro area. I got tired of traffic and the big city (D.C., MD and VA) so I move the the country side. I left by boat in 1994 and spent one year and six month in the refugee camps in Cayman Islands and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

 

There is a rumor than infielder/outfielder Dayan Viciedo left Cuba. If this is true, he would be a great player to sign. He is around 19-20 years old. Great talent! He plays for SS Yuni Betancourt's team, Villa Clara Orange. Former big leaguer RHP Rolando Arrojo and 1B Jorge Toca played there too.

 

 

In case you miss this article, MLB is thinking big about a future free Cuba. I can wait for cubans to compete in equal footing at least being free to come and go like others. MLB policy now stinks against cubans.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/sports/b...amp;oref=slogin

 

 

This is what I like about the article:

 

Hopefully, when the cuban economy improves, we can have a major league team. We should have had one by now before Canada, but the man with the long beard took power and that's it. No more fun!

"Baseball is also considering moving a minor league team to Cuba and building training academies similar to those that nearly all teams have in the Dominican Republic, according to a report earlier this month by Fortune magazine."

 

 

This is the main reason why Japanese players get the entrance they get. It is a business more than baseball decision. It is true some are good, but their contract do not justify their talent nor their amount of playing time even more when they struggle. When Chinese players get so so, you will see MLB selling chinese players to us. When Cuba be free, we are going to have some entrance too because MLB would want to secure a new fan base. Then, many will be MLB ready unlike now. MLB will sell this to the media.

"But Cuba, which is 90 miles from Florida, has a rich baseball history and is considered a future source of players, fans and revenue."

 

 

I have formed my opinions on cuban baseball and players researching stats in my projects, watching baseball and attending minor league games. I also asked cuban players in big and minors to compare the Cuban National Season vs the league they are playing.

 

There is a book in Spanish called "Confesiones Mas Alla del Dugout"/ "Dugout Confessions" where some defectors are interviewed. They tell their stories and talks about their US baseball experience. Many coincide that in Cuba there are many players MLB ready.

 

I went so see the Yankess AA team last year where 1B Juan Miranda was playing. I asked him to campare that AA league to the cuban league. He told me that the cuban league is stronger. Miranda played for Alexei and Contreras's team Pinar del Rio Green Sox. He spent 2 o 3 years in the D.R. waiting for legal papers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cubano]

Angels 1B/outfielder switch hitter Kendry Morales will look good in a White Sox uniform. He should not be in the minors. His minor league numbers are better than Casey Kotchman. Two years ago, Morales almost broke the Dominican winter league HR record. He blasted 14 balls to the stands. He also won a gold glove there. He may be getting out of minor league options soon.

 

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=434778

Edited June 3, 2008 by Cubano

[Chisoxfn]

Angels 1B/outfielder switch hitter Kendry Morales will look good in a White Sox uniform. He should not be in the minors. His minor league numbers are better than Casey Kotchman. Two years ago, Morales almost broke the Dominican winter league HR record. He blasted 14 balls to the stands. He also won a gold glove there. He may be getting out of minor league options soon.

 

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=434778

Morales is a guy I've long wanted to pick up. The big problem with him is that defensively he's in a tough bind because he doesn't possess the typical power of a 1st baseman (although he has good power, I wouldn't consider it great power). That said he possesses a very natural swing and I see him capable of posting a .300, 20 HR type of season with a solid OPB and good slugging numbers. He's also major league ready as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not sure how much the Angels have soured on him, but if the club wanted to make an adjustment and was able to move one of Paulie/Thome, I'd have no problem turning to the Angels and offering them a package to acquire Morales (who would clearly be available given Kochman's performance at 1B).

[lostfan]

Cubano, also with the policies you were touching on, you figure MLB has to play within the rules the U.S. allows them to. Considering Cuba is an embargoed country and all their hands are kind of tied. But I have no doubt that if we changed our policies here, there would be a flood of Cuban players to the U.S.

[Cubano]

Morales is a guy I've long wanted to pick up. The big problem with him is that defensively he's in a tough bind because he doesn't possess the typical power of a 1st baseman (although he has good power, I wouldn't consider it great power). That said he possesses a very natural swing and I see him capable of posting a .300, 20 HR type of season with a solid OPB and good slugging numbers. He's also major league ready as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm not sure how much the Angels have soured on him, but if the club wanted to make an adjustment and was able to move one of Paulie/Thome, I'd have no problem turning to the Angels and offering them a package to acquire Morales (who would clearly be available given Kochman's performance at 1B).

 

 

Morales's 2008 numbers:

 

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...ilb&cid=561

 

Career stats:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/K...y-Morales.shtml

 

One error only! Last year, it was the same thing. You may think I am crazy but I think Mike S. does not like him for some reason. First, the Angels said he needed to work on his defense just to send him to the minors. Kotchman's father works for the Angels too. Come on! His numbers in the minors are better than Kotchman so he has better projection than him. Last year, he had an stretch in August that was really good. Then, Mike S. benched him again. There is no reason why Juan Rivera and Rob Quinlan are playing ahead of him unless you want Morales to play every day. He is a switch hitter too which is a plus and he has a cannon for an arm. He used to be a pitcher too in the juniors. He may be a corner outfielder by now by the Angels did not use him in the outfield until now.

[Cubano]

Cubano, also with the policies you were touching on, you figure MLB has to play within the rules the U.S. allows them to. Considering Cuba is an embargoed country and all their hands are kind of tied. But I have no doubt that if we changed our policies here, there would be a flood of Cuban players to the U.S.

 

 

But once you defect, there is no reason why cubans can not be free agents for being a cuban. Why did Contreras have to go to Nicaragua and El Duke to Costa Rica to get those countries citizenship?

 

They got it fast because they were famous but for less known players, this move may be detrimental for their careers because they have to wait longer. Age is very important for MLB.

[BearSox]

I'm not gonna lie, Morales looks a lot older than 25 or 26 to me.

[Cubano]

I'm not gonna lie, Morales looks a lot older than 25 or 26 to me.

 

 

No, he is that age unlike El Duke.

[Harry Chappas]

No, he is that age unlike El Duke.

 

The big question, how old is Contreras?

[lostfan]

But once you defect, there is no reason why cubans can not be free agents for being a cuban. Why did Contreras have to go to Nicaragua and El Duke to Costa Rica to get those countries citizenship?

 

They got it fast because they were famous but for less known players, this move may be detrimental for their careers because they have to wait longer. Age is very important for MLB.

That's a pretty good question.