DBAHO Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Seeing him in person tonight against the Mets at Shea. Really looking forward to seeing that filthy curveball of his, mixed in with his fastball / change combo. Is he the best young pitcher to come into the majors over the past season and a bit, or would you rather have a Max Scherzer for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ May 30, 2008 -> 07:14 AM) Seeing him in person tonight against the Mets at Shea. Really looking forward to seeing that filthy curveball of his, mixed in with his fastball / change combo. Is he the best young pitcher to come into the majors over the past season and a bit, or would you rather have a Max Scherzer for example? In terms of where they were the day they were called up for the first time, I think the last guy who I'd say was at the level where I think Kershaw can be right now is Verlander. Just amazing stuff to start off. Maybe King Felix or Liriano would go in that boat, but each of them has a different set of pitches. But with young pitchers...there's so many variables it's just impossible to say whether you'd rather have one guy or the other. You give me 2 dominating young pitchers, I'll place a bet that 1 of them will suffer a major injury within a few years that sets them back (who would you have picked in 06, Liriano or Weaver/Verlander?). Or one will have his mechanics go screwy after a bad game and his pitch counts will go nuts (Floyd, Billingsley). Or one will have something else crazy happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I'll take the lefty and he is already in the majors, two or three years younger than Scherzer. As a Mizzou boy, I still take Clayton and IMO it's not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Scherzer has more risky mechanics and is older. I'd take Kershaw and its not even debatable, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 30, 2008 -> 02:25 PM) Scherzer has more risky mechanics and is older. I'd take Kershaw and its not even debatable, imo. Agree. Scherzer has a good chance of ending up in the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 30, 2008 -> 01:14 PM) Agree. Scherzer has a good chance of ending up in the bullpen. Lets not get crazy here. Scherzer has a great fastball, good command and multiple good pitches. The only major question-marks around him are related to his delivery and the amount of stress he puts on his arm. If he stays healthy there is absolutely no reason he will be pitching anywhere but one of the top 3 spots in a teams rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 30, 2008 -> 12:02 PM) In terms of where they were the day they were called up for the first time, I think the last guy who I'd say was at the level where I think Kershaw can be right now is Verlander. Just amazing stuff to start off. Maybe King Felix or Liriano would go in that boat, but each of them has a different set of pitches. But with young pitchers...there's so many variables it's just impossible to say whether you'd rather have one guy or the other. You give me 2 dominating young pitchers, I'll place a bet that 1 of them will suffer a major injury within a few years that sets them back (who would you have picked in 06, Liriano or Weaver/Verlander?). Or one will have his mechanics go screwy after a bad game and his pitch counts will go nuts (Floyd, Billingsley). Or one will have something else crazy happen. His curve is great, but comparing him to Liriano? 2006 Liriano was one of the most dominant pitchers I've ever seen. There was one pitch in Kerry Wood's 20-k game where some announcer said, God couldn't hit that curve. That's a decent description of about half the sliders Liriano threw that year. Liriano's not "maybe" in that boat, he's driving the damn thing. That's not to pan Kershaw, nor is it saying that Liriano's a better long-term bet (far from it), it's just to say that Liriano's stuff that year probably won't be approached by any rookie for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Out before finishing 4. Not pretty. And I threw him tonight in one fantasy league. Ugh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 QUOTE (jackie hayes @ May 30, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) Out before finishing 4. Not pretty. And I threw him tonight in one fantasy league. Ugh... same here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 30, 2008 -> 04:34 PM) Lets not get crazy here. Scherzer has a great fastball, good command and multiple good pitches. The only major question-marks around him are related to his delivery and the amount of stress he puts on his arm. If he stays healthy there is absolutely no reason he will be pitching anywhere but one of the top 3 spots in a teams rotation. That's the thing, he's not going to stay healthy with those mechanics he has now. He puts so much damn stress on his arm that he'll end up having Tommy John giving him a visit within the next year or so if he doesn't get that figured out. It's nasty, and that's not a good nasty either. His stuff is a good nasty, but that has a lot to do with his current mechanics. I think Scherzer has a ways to go, but he looks good right now anyways. QUOTE (jackie hayes @ May 30, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) His curve is great, but comparing him to Liriano? 2006 Liriano was one of the most dominant pitchers I've ever seen. There was one pitch in Kerry Wood's 20-k game where some announcer said, God couldn't hit that curve. That's a decent description of about half the sliders Liriano threw that year. Liriano's not "maybe" in that boat, he's driving the damn thing. Quite honestly, good luck to anyone finding a more dominant pitcher pitching with absolute pure stuff for even just one half of a season since Sandy Koufax. You'll struggle mightily. Not sad to see Liriano go down as a Sox fan, but seeing a pitcher with Liriano's potential go down does kind of suck. With that stuff he had, he was a Hall of Fame pitcher. Now that he's had to change his mechanics (and without having seen him), I'd imagine the slider has lost 4-6 inches of bite and the fastball has lost 3-6 MPH. That kind of stuff might get him a middle relief role someday getting lefties out, but even Pablo Ozuna can hit s*** like that. He is also with the Twins, so I imagine he'll be throwing better than he was when he went down with better bite on the slider and more speed on the fastball. I've come to expect stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Neither.... David Price is gonna blow both of these NL guys away when the Rays call him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 QUOTE (jackie hayes @ May 30, 2008 -> 07:41 PM) Out before finishing 4. Not pretty. And I threw him tonight in one fantasy league. Ugh... Yeah he was pretty wild last night. Just kept walking hitters in the 3rd and 4th, so he's obviously still got some control issues to deal with. Couldn't really find the strike zone in those innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 QUOTE (watchtower41 @ May 31, 2008 -> 08:43 AM) Neither.... David Price is gonna blow both of these NL guys away when the Rays call him up. Price is the best collegiate pitcher to come out since Prior and he's definately dominated in his first two pro starts of the season (albeit in the minors). The key is that he's past whatever arm tightness he had in spring which pushed his pro debut back. The guy has tremendous stuff and more importantly has a good head on his shoulder and advanced command for someone his age. If healthy, he has the rare ability to come up to the majors with very limited minor league work (much like Prior was able to) because of that combination of stuff, poise, and command. I can only hope he doesn't end up having the same sort of injury issues Prior ended up having (as much as I hate getting beat by a good pitcher, I absolutely love seeing good pitchers pitch and if they aren't on the Sox so be it, I still love seeing the quality of the game get better and better and right now baseball has a tremendous crop of pitching on the horizon (some of which is already dominating at the major league level). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy21 Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) my top 10 young pitchers (one year or less) 1. Edinson Volquez (until Dusty ruins his career) 2. Tim Lincecum 3. Joba Chamberlain 4. David Price (only reason he's not #1 is because he's only pitched 11 innings in high A, shut out innings though) 5. Clayton Kershaw 6. Clay Bucholz 7. Neftali Feliz 8. Johnny Cueto 9. Max Scherzer 10. Justin Masterson (definatly a sleeper, his sinker is Webb/Wang esque) Edited June 2, 2008 by Noberto Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 QUOTE (Noberto Martin @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 01:37 AM) my top 10 young pitchers (one year or less) 1. Edinson Volquez (until Dusty ruins his career) 2. Tim Lincecum 3. Joba Chamberlain 4. David Price (only reason he's not #1 is because he's only pitched 11 innings in high A, shut out innings though) 5. Clayton Kershaw 6. Clay Bucholz 7. Neftali Feliz 8. Johnny Cueto 9. Max Scherzer 10. Justin Masterson (definatly a sleeper, his sinker is Webb/Wang esque) what are you considering here? That's the biggest issue in my mind. Some of it appears to be stuff and scouting reports, other it appears to be MLB success while others appear to be a combination of both. I mean, Feliz hasn't thrown a pitch above A ball, whereas Scherzer started his career with 4.1 perfect innings and has a 2.10 ERA in his first 25.2 innings. I'm also not a huge fan of Masterson because it's so hard to project sinkerballers. Regardless, there's no way Lincecum isn't #1 on my list. Dude's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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