Wong & Owens Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Methinks the league is quickly catching on to the fact that he can't hit a breaking ball to save his life. He's Pedro Serrano with a better arm. Anyone else noticing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 He's a rookie. He's not necessarily going to hit as well as we want him to. Any offensive production we get from him, minus sac flies, sac bunts, and those type, is a bonus. His grand slam against the Cubs....a bonus. His homer against I think Oakland this year....a bonus. We have him mainly for his defense/arm. Man, does he have an arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Miguel better get Jobu working for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I'm with witesoxfan on this one. 240 or 250 batting average this year and Olivo is an asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Ghost, I was convinced after that strike out Saturday. Three curves ankle high, and he swung at all three. That homer off the Cubs (Estes) ocurred when Estes could not get a curve over to save himself, and he literally grooved a fast ball for Olivo. Probably the most hittable pitch of the year. Of course, he did hit it. I think Olivo will end up under .200 for the season but will improve next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 240 or 250 batting average this year and Olivo is an asset. Without looking at Olivo's numbers, I'd say Miguel has some work to do to get up to .240-.250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Without looking at Olivo's numbers, I'd say Miguel has some work to do to get up to .240-.250. He's a rookie he'll be streaky, he could get up there. He started out s***ty, got real hot and now is back to s***ty. It bears remembering that Frank looked downright silly at the plate untill the double yeasterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Miguel is an inexpereinced hitter and is learning very slowly here at the big leagure level. I watched the game on WGN Saturday and Hawk and DJ commented on the fact that Miguel is having a hard time reading pitches and that the Rays took advantage of his inexperience during that fiasco when we couldn't score with no outs and the bases loaded. It will take time and effort to bring Olivo up to an acceptable level. However, Crede is also still learning and gets fooled badly on pitches low and outside. I have watched him get suckered a few times now and his backside sticks out a mile and he flails away limply at that outside pitch. It takes time and I hope the rest of the team can pick it up from here on. We can't afford anymore 1-2 series like Tamp Bay. By all rights we should have swept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 I agree that because he's a rookie, he's going to have these types of problems. I am certainly not advocating giving up on him or anything like that. Another thing that concerned me about that particular at-bat against the D-Rays involves another blunder by Jerry Manuel & staff. If memory serves, Olivo was up with either no outs or one out, the bases loaded, and the Sox down by 1 run. If there's a rookie pitcher on the mound for Tampa, why not give him the take sign on 3-1? Olivo swung at ball four twice, both pitches being breaking balls. I think Piniella out-managed JM on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 It was no outs and he shoulda been PH for. EOS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 It was no outs and he shoulda been PH for. EOS!!! OK, that's what I thought. I agree he should have been ph for, but if not I am OK with it. I just didn't see why, with a rookie pitcher on the hill facing his first? batter with no out and the bases loaded, you wouldn't give Olivo the take sign with a 3-1 count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 You give the take sign on 3-0 because you have a strike to work with. Simple as that. You don't give the take sign on 3-1 because sometimes, especially with rookie pitchers, they will have a tendency to throw get-me-over pitches....and they take like 5-10 MPHs off. If you get a fat pitch down the heart of the plate to any MLB player, and it goes a long ways. It's just unfortunate that we couldn't score. And at that point, it is a tough call. Do you want to put Maggs into the game at that time, have him get a sac fly, then have the next person(I believe it was Alomar) possibly hit into a DP or whatever happened. You would then have Maggs gone for the rest of the game(unless you sub him into the game), have Sandy come in, and then see your bullpen give up 2 more runs. It is 3-1 at that point, and Sandy leads off the 9th, and odds are, he doesn't turn on that pitch like Maggs does...or you do a double switch and Sandy takes the place of Lee. Hindsight is always 20-20. Just leave it like it is, because that's how it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 So instead of making the right decision you become paralyzed with indecision and do nothing but lose the game. Yep, that sounds like 2003 White Sox Baseball alrighty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 So instead of making the right decision you become paralyzed with indecision and do nothing but lose the game. Yep, that sounds like 2003 White Sox Baseball alrighty. Manuel obvoiusly felt that not doing anything was the best move. If Miguel gets a sac fly, it is the best thing, because we still have Maggs on the bench and a fresh catcher as well. I don't think he did anything wrong. At the very least, you expect your players to be able to do a simple task like that. Hindisight is always 20-20. It's over and done with. Who cares anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 You give the take sign on 3-0 because you have a strike to work with. Simple as that. You don't give the take sign on 3-1 because sometimes, especially with rookie pitchers, they will have a tendency to throw get-me-over pitches....and they take like 5-10 MPHs off. If you get a fat pitch down the heart of the plate to any MLB player, and it goes a long ways. It's just unfortunate that we couldn't score. And at that point, it is a tough call. Do you want to put Maggs into the game at that time, have him get a sac fly, then have the next person(I believe it was Alomar) possibly hit into a DP or whatever happened. You would then have Maggs gone for the rest of the game(unless you sub him into the game), have Sandy come in, and then see your bullpen give up 2 more runs. It is 3-1 at that point, and Sandy leads off the 9th, and odds are, he doesn't turn on that pitch like Maggs does...or you do a double switch and Sandy takes the place of Lee. Hindsight is always 20-20. Just leave it like it is, because that's how it happened. You don't always have to give a 3-0 take because that pitch can also be a get me over fastball down the middle of the plate. You'd never give the take sign 3-1 because then it's a full count and you have to now protect the plate and your chance of striking out rises greatly because you will be expanding your zone. 3-1 and 2-0 pitches are the best pitches to hit in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 You give the take sign on 3-0 because you have a strike to work with. Simple as that. You don't give the take sign on 3-1 because sometimes, especially with rookie pitchers, they will have a tendency to throw get-me-over pitches....and they take like 5-10 MPHs off. If you get a fat pitch down the heart of the plate to any MLB player, and it goes a long ways. It's just unfortunate that we couldn't score. And at that point, it is a tough call. Do you want to put Maggs into the game at that time, have him get a sac fly, then have the next person(I believe it was Alomar) possibly hit into a DP or whatever happened. You would then have Maggs gone for the rest of the game(unless you sub him into the game), have Sandy come in, and then see your bullpen give up 2 more runs. It is 3-1 at that point, and Sandy leads off the 9th, and odds are, he doesn't turn on that pitch like Maggs does...or you do a double switch and Sandy takes the place of Lee. Hindsight is always 20-20. Just leave it like it is, because that's how it happened. You don't always have to give a 3-0 take because that pitch can also be a get me over fastball down the middle of the plate. You'd never give the take sign 3-1 because then it's a full count and you have to now protect the plate and your chance of striking out rises greatly because you will be expanding your zone. 3-1 and 2-0 pitches are the best pitches to hit in baseball That's true. Bobby Kielty is a great 3-0 hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 You give the take sign on 3-0 because you have a strike to work with. Simple as that. You don't give the take sign on 3-1 because sometimes, especially with rookie pitchers, they will have a tendency to throw get-me-over pitches....and they take like 5-10 MPHs off. If you get a fat pitch down the heart of the plate to any MLB player, and it goes a long ways. It's just unfortunate that we couldn't score. And at that point, it is a tough call. Do you want to put Maggs into the game at that time, have him get a sac fly, then have the next person(I believe it was Alomar) possibly hit into a DP or whatever happened. You would then have Maggs gone for the rest of the game(unless you sub him into the game), have Sandy come in, and then see your bullpen give up 2 more runs. It is 3-1 at that point, and Sandy leads off the 9th, and odds are, he doesn't turn on that pitch like Maggs does...or you do a double switch and Sandy takes the place of Lee. Hindsight is always 20-20. Just leave it like it is, because that's how it happened. You don't always have to give a 3-0 take because that pitch can also be a get me over fastball down the middle of the plate. You'd never give the take sign 3-1 because then it's a full count and you have to now protect the plate and your chance of striking out rises greatly because you will be expanding your zone. 3-1 and 2-0 pitches are the best pitches to hit in baseball If I have a weak hitter up, and the opposing pitcher is having trouble finding the plate, I would not hesitate to give a 3-1 take sign with the bases loaded. This way you have the pitcher throw 2 strikes in a pressure situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I'm not worried about what Miguel and Crede are doing offensevely. I know that they are not supposed to be the big hitters on this team. I'm worried about PK's hitting because it's the only thing that he knows and he is supposed to be doing. If Miguel and Crede are playing good defense in his rookie years i dont care if they are struggling on the hitting side, it's their rookie year and they have the talent to be an All Star someday in the future. You cant point the fingers in rookies that are learning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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