Changes coming by Tuesday?

[quickman]

I don't think any changes will occur, except perhaps line-up changes by Ozzie. KW making a trade or firing a coach will make him look like Ozzie's lackey. Not doing anything will make him look like Ozzie's boss, something he made perfectly clear he was in his comments about Ozzie's comments.

 

 

ahh nice call, thats why he will wait unitl wensday!

[Frankensteiner]

I'm sure he would love to improve it if it were possible and practical, however, that isn't always the case.

 

I understand that. Still doesn't excuse his stupid comments. How about "we're working on it" or "yeah, these guys have to step it up." Instead, he's preaching patience and saying everything is fine. It's like we're running club med for the pull-happy retards. His manager went out of his way to criticise their pathetic effort. So if you're the players what's there to worry about? Why even bother to hear what Ozzie has to say? There's no consequences. It's totally undercutting your manager.

[SoxFan562004]

It may be a little over the top, but I was glad to read the quotes by Ozzie. The pitching on this team has been awesome and the hitting a joke (save a few players). I'm glad he's doing this at this point when they are still in 1st place and not when they're 5 or 6 games out.

 

I was tired of all the protecting of everyone on this team. The whole "look at the back of his baseball card" thing was getting old. Some of these guys haven't hit with any consistnecy for a year and a half and treating some of the vetrans and Walker with kid gloves was getting old.

[Frankensteiner]

I really don't think Ozzie meant to throw Kenny under the bus. I think Kenny and Ozzie have had multiple conversations regarding whether Ozzie thinks Kenny needs to go out and get something else for the offense, and Ozzie has consistently said "no, we have the right guys."

 

This was Ozzie's way of saying, "maybe I was wrong, maybe I do need Kenny to go out and get something for me."

 

He was trying to motivate his players, not piss Kenny off. Unfortunately, he didn't think before he said it. And we all know Kenny is a fiery guy himself.

 

Yeah, Ozzie was critical of his players, not Kenny. I don't know how it got spun around like that.

[Princess Dye]

I took it as PD was taking for granted that Coop can fix pitchers, so why not sell high and buy low since he can fix others.

 

yea thats what i meant. not that I expect Coop can do that automatically, creating greatness from nothing every time.

 

but i guess where i differ from others here is that I see Floyd as a somewhat worse than his present numbers indicate, and i'm willing to trade that before he gets down to those Garza-like #s. again, i do this only if it's a very helpful move (helpful to our offense). but i wouldnt expect all to agree.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[LVSoxFan]

It may be a little over the top, but I was glad to read the quotes by Ozzie. The pitching on this team has been awesome and the hitting a joke (save a few players). I'm glad he's doing this at this point when they are still in 1st place and not when they're 5 or 6 games out.

 

I was tired of all the protecting of everyone on this team. The whole "look at the back of his baseball card" thing was getting old. Some of these guys haven't hit with any consistnecy for a year and a half and treating some of the vetrans and Walker with kid gloves was getting old.

 

 

Roger that. Exactly my thoughts. I like the "baseball card" analogy.

 

Here's one that my co-worker (Cub fan but baseball nut) floated: why not make Harold Baines the hitting coach? I mean, the guy could definitely HIT so it's not that crazy--or is it?

 

Thoughts?

 

[iamshack]

 

Roger that. Exactly my thoughts. I like the "baseball card" analogy.

 

Here's one that my co-worker (Cub fan but baseball nut) floated: why not make Harold Baines the hitting coach? I mean, the guy could definitely HIT so it's not that crazy--or is it?

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't know Harold personally, but from everything I've heard he has an extremely quiet personality. I'm not sure whether he can communicate on the level necessary to be a good hitting coach. I certainly may be incorrect, but that is what I have read. Remember, it's not just whether one can hit, but whether he can teach others to hit.

[daa84]

anything of substance in these 15 pages that i should read ?

[Kyyle23]

 

Roger that. Exactly my thoughts. I like the "baseball card" analogy.

 

Here's one that my co-worker (Cub fan but baseball nut) floated: why not make Harold Baines the hitting coach? I mean, the guy could definitely HIT so it's not that crazy--or is it?

Thoughts?

 

Who knows. Some people think "Those that can, do. Those who cannot, teach". Others believe that people who are the best at hitting should be the teachers.

 

Ultimately its up to Ozzie to decide what he wants out of his hitting coach and who he wants to be the coach

[rokimar]

anything of substance in these 15 pages that i should read ?

 

Konerko, Thome, Swisher cant hit a baseball

[DBAHO]

Certainly a bit of action in this thread this afternoon.

 

On the Uribe the LAD rumors, asking for Kemp is just silly. Chin - Lung Hu is the guy I'd ask for. Young, cheap, and although he's only hitting something like .176 currently, you move him to a better offensive park, and he's a pretty dynamite defensive SS who'd be under your control for a good 5 seasons.

 

That's unless you could get Kuo somehow, even though he's got an arm that's extremely wild, he's got pretty damn good stuff.

 

And if he could show he could hit (Hu), you wouldn't need OC in 2009 (and you could trade him for the right piece or just take the draft picks).

[Dick Allen]

It may be a little over the top, but I was glad to read the quotes by Ozzie. The pitching on this team has been awesome and the hitting a joke (save a few players). I'm glad he's doing this at this point when they are still in 1st place and not when they're 5 or 6 games out.

 

I was tired of all the protecting of everyone on this team. The whole "look at the back of his baseball card" thing was getting old. Some of these guys haven't hit with any consistnecy for a year and a half and treating some of the vetrans and Walker with kid gloves was getting old.

While I appreciate Ozzie's fire and frustration, going off like that to the media was wrong. The same message could get across in private conversations probably a lot better. Ozzie was criticizing White Sox fans for criticizing the team not too long ago. If he wanted some offense yesterday, how about letting your best hitter currently, hit?

[LVSoxFan]

I'm sure KW and Ozzie had QUITE the conversation today. You're right about that.

 

As for Baines being a good hitter but that doesn't necessarily make a good coach, point taken. It's interesting to think about though. Sure seems like a waste to have him at 1B taking people's gloves.

 

Greg Walker better be gone tomorrow.

[Princess Dye]

What does firing Walker accomplish? The guys struggling are vets who are likely most resistant to change. What's he going to do to get PK or JT going? Seriously?

 

 

The guys you'd think are least resistant to change have actually been producing. CQ, AR, etc. The guys who were fighting to make the team have hit well, that says something.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[shipps]

What does firing Walker accomplish? The guys struggling are vets who are likely most resistant to change. What's he going to do to get PK or JT going? Seriously?

 

 

The guys you'd think are least resistant to change have actually been producing. CQ, AR, etc. The guys who were fighting to make the team have hit well, that says something.

If a class of honor roll students wind up failing miserably one year when they have a history of succeeding you have to look at the teacher eventually.

[Soxpranos]

Well if you think you can win the division without him then trade him, i still say he is a leader for the team and will turn things around as the year goes on. We have an opportunity to stay in this thing longer because the Tigers and Indians are playing worse than we are right now. Trading away your best pitcher in the last several years is a good idea only if you think Broadway has the NADS to help us get in the playoffs now which i personally do not think he has.

He wasn't our best pitcher the last several of years.

[letsgoarow]

 

If a class of honor roll students wind up failing miserably one year when they have a history of succeeding you have to look at the teacher eventually.

 

That is awesome lol

[Dick Allen]

If a class of honor roll students wind up failing miserably one year when they have a history of succeeding you have to look at the teacher eventually.

Unless those same students have other circumstances like age, and injury and whatever. If you think Greg Walker is why Thome, Konerko and Swisher aren't hitting, fine, fire him. Just don't be surprised if the new guy doesn't have them hitting .350.

[Metz]

i dont really feel like reading 15 pages but who the lucky one to say Joe Crede is out and Fields should come up? haha

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm sure KW and Ozzie had QUITE the conversation today. You're right about that.

 

As for Baines being a good hitter but that doesn't necessarily make a good coach, point taken. It's interesting to think about though. Sure seems like a waste to have him at 1B taking people's gloves.

 

Greg Walker better be gone tomorrow.

 

Best argument for Baines... he worked heavily with AJ in the offseason and in ST. And look what happened - AJ is back to his better, spray-hitting self.

 

 

[Metz]

Best argument for Baines... he worked heavily with AJ in the offseason and in ST. And look what happened - AJ is back to his better, spray-hitting self.

 

 

if you saw the Sox Special on saturday while they could not show the game you would obviously know that Baines had nothing to do with it ... it was the Gameboy Advance or w/e the 5 new ones that are out

[Chet Lemon]

Just don't be surprised if the new guy doesn't have them hitting .350.

 

.250 would be an obvious improvement over the current debacle.

[Soxbadger]

If a class of honor roll students wind up failing miserably one year when they have a history of succeeding you have to look at the teacher eventually.

 

Odd statement.

 

First of all students generally are not at the age where their performances begins to decline (ie Konerko, Dye, Thome). Most students are still in their "peak" years of performance.

 

Second of all, Dye's states some what improved since he went to the Sox. Thome is on the decline but hes 37, age and injury were bound to catch up with him. Konerko had a season like this in 2003, he clearly is just a player who is prone to long/bad slumps, Cabrera historically also has had his fair share of bad seasons, Uribe being Uribe. AJP doing better, CQ doing better, Crede doing career average.

 

So of all the starting players it only leaves Swisher whos hitting is major shock and could potentially be attributed to the batting coach.

 

Im not going to blame the bad hitting on a coach, when its obviously the players that are on the decline. In fact every Sox hitter (outside of Swisher) who is doing bad is on the wrong side of 30. Who knows whats going on the in the clubhouse, all I can say is the younger hitters who are more likely to listen to a coach have been been seemingly improving, so its hard to say that its equivalent to honor roll students failing.

 

Especially as that discounts what CQ has done becoming one of the most consistent offensive players on the team.

[Princess Dye]

If a class of honor roll students wind up failing miserably one year when they have a history of succeeding you have to look at the teacher eventually.

 

Off the analogy: Nah, it's always bad parenting. Pretty much almost always. If it's bad teachers, then how come lousy students conveniently tend to get low grades in every subject?

 

But to stick to the analogy: I dont think Walker was ever the teacher for some of these guys. I mean, what has he taught Thome?

[LVSoxFan]

In response to "What would firing Walker do?" I'd say: SOMETHING. At the very least it's symbolic, showing the players that the organization is trying to win.

 

The false-choice about them suddenly hitting .350 with the new guy will be ignored.

 

But what is Einstein's definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? It's been a year and a half. How much longer do you want to wait? And unless you're going to get rid of the players themselves, I'd say: we need a fresh look at their hitting.

 

Hell, people HERE have many times pointed out the flaws in the approaches of PK and Thome. Hell even I KNOW that if you throw Thome down and in, he'll swing.

 

But somehow combined with Walker they can't figure this out? C'mon.

 

I think a new set of eyes could probably pick out right away what the problems are; they may even be small fixes. But DO SOMETHING.