Changes coming by Tuesday?

[Princess Dye]

But what is Einstein's definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? It's been a year and a half. How much longer do you want to wait? And unless you're going to get rid of the players themselves, I'd say: we need a fresh look at their hitting.

 

Would it be insane for CQ to curtail what he's been doing? Should Alexei stop doing what he's doing right now?

 

These are the guys that are probably Walk's biggest current projects.

[whitesoxbrian]

First off, let me start out by saing F*** YOU FUKUDOME for not wanting to play here, and instead play for the North Siders because you'd be their first Japanese player. We could have easily traded JD for something and you could have played RF.

 

Secondly, I think we have to package up PK, Crede, and Swisher for a guy like Matt Kemp or Jason Bay. They are both under-rated, since not many know who they are, however, they both are .290-.310 hitters who could help us a.s.a.p.

 

Though, who would play 1st if we traded Konerko AND Swisher??

Edited June 2, 2008 by whitesoxbrian

[LVSoxFan]

Would it be insane for CQ to curtail what he's been doing? Should Alexei stop doing what he's doing right now?

 

These are the guys that are probably Walk's biggest current projects.

 

All right so if you're saying that it's not him and it's PK and Thome... bench them. Do SOMETHING. He's already dropped them in the order. Maybe drop them further, to eight and nine.

 

Swish hasn't been doing this for a year and a half so I'm not sure we need to send him any "message."

[kane0730]

First off, let me start out by saing F*** YOU FUKUDOME for not wanting to play here, and instead play for the North Siders because you'd be their first Japanese player. We could have easily traded JD for something and you could have played RF.

 

Secondly, I think we have to package up PK, Crede, and Swisher for a guy like Matt Kemp or Jason Bay. They are both under-rated, since not many know who they are, however, they both are .290-.310 hitters who could help us a.s.a.p.

 

Though, who would play 1st if we traded Konerko AND Swisher??

 

Fukudome would have played CF, thus the Swisher trade wouldn't have happened. Why do you think anybody would want our garbage?? These trade idea are becoming more and more absurd.

[NorthSideSox72]

if you saw the Sox Special on saturday while they could not show the game you would obviously know that Baines had nothing to do with it ... it was the Gameboy Advance or w/e the 5 new ones that are out

Call me crazy, but, since he did a number of things - including video games, losing some weight, and working with Harold - I'd say they all played a role. And my guess is Baines may have been bigger than a video game.

 

Or were you being sarcastic?

 

[Chisoxfn]

My problem with releasing Uribe is that he's still set to be a Type B FA after this season. Why not just keep him on as a bench player seeing limited playing time, and pick up another draft pick next year?

Because you would have to offer him arbitration and given the amount he is paid there is a decent chance he would accept arbitration and end up signing another 1 year deal with the Sox (because I don't know if many teams will be throwing him a long-term deal with more money than he's making currently).

[Princess Dye]

All right so if you're saying that it's not him and it's PK and Thome... bench them. Do SOMETHING. He's already dropped them in the order.

 

Now here I'm with you. I like the idea of making Thome Konerko and Swisher share two spots. helps our D'

 

but i think my answer is not BA.

 

I want Ozuna in at 2b, Alexei in CF. This way, Ozuna can be up in either 1 or 2 hole. and it's a defensive improvement.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[Frankensteiner]

No, instead, Ozzie put Williams in a corner, basically telling him to go make a major trade on June 1st. What Ozzie said may or may not have been true, but it put his boss in a position he shouldn't have to be in.

 

Well, as I've said, Williams could have quickly stepped out of that corner by saying "we're working on it" or talking about how hard it is to complete deals in early June 1st. Instead, he chose to play testosterone fueled GM (like he usually does).

[Metz]

Call me crazy, but, since he did a number of things - including video games, losing some weight, and working with Harold - I'd say they all played a role. And my guess is Baines may have been bigger than a video game.

 

Or were you being sarcastic?

 

sarcastic ha

[SleepyWhiteSox]

What does firing Walker accomplish? The guys struggling are vets who are likely most resistant to change. What's he going to do to get PK or JT going? Seriously?

 

It sends a message, obviously. At this point something needs to be done to wake them the hell up.

 

What does not doing anything accomplish??

[NorthSideSox72]

Now here I'm with you. I like the idea of making Thome Konerko and Swisher share two spots. helps our D'

 

but i think my answer is not BA.

 

I want Ozuna in at 2b, Alexei in CF. This way, Ozuna can be up in either 1 or 2 hole. and it's a defensive improvement.

Ozuna in the 1 or 2 hole? I'd rather have any combination of Swish, O-Cab, Ramirez, AJ, Crede, CQ, Thome, Dye or really almost anyone else be there (except PK) than to make Ozuna a starter.

 

[Princess Dye]

It sends a message, obviously. At this point something needs to be done to wake them the hell up.

 

What does not doing anything accomplish??

 

if right now Walk is unlocking a lot of things Alexei has never seen before, firing him tomorrow and bringing someone in with a whole new set of principles could derail that work.

 

And Alexei's growth could be stunted.

 

 

 

This is what not doing anything (on that front) could accomplish. People are missing the entire basis of my argument, which is that Walker is doing some good to really good things. Alexei, Quentin.

 

The fault lies in the vets who are already set in their ways.

 

 

 

 

It doesnt sound all that well thought out to say, "Just do SOMETHING." It's as if you're admitting that exasperation is taking over reason.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[NorthSideSox72]

if right now Walk is unlocking a lot of things Alexei has never seen before, firing him tomorrow and bringing someone in with a whole new set of principles could derail that work.

 

And Alexei's growth could be stunted.

 

 

 

This is what not doing anything (on that front) could accomplish. People are missing the entire basis of my argument, which is that Walker is doing some good to really good things. Alexei, Quentin.

 

The fault lies in the vets who are already set in their ways.

 

 

 

 

It doesnt sound all that well thought out to say, "Just do SOMETHING." It's as if you're admitting that exasperation is taking over reason.

Quentin has raked at every level he's played at. Now in his first healthy season at the major league level, he's doing it again. And Walk specifically said he didn't mess with CQ. I don't think he gets credit for that. Now, with Alexei, you may be right - I don't know. But that's a whole 1 improved player, if that. What about the rest? Players come here and go downhill, and at various different ages. I don't see Walk doing them much good.

 

[Princess Dye]

Quentin has raked at every level he's played at. Now in his first healthy season at the major league level, he's doing it again. And Walk specifically said he didn't mess with CQ. I don't think he gets credit for that. Now, with Alexei, you may be right - I don't know. But that's a whole 1 improved player, if that. What about the rest? Players come here and go downhill, and at various different ages. I don't see Walk doing them much good.

 

A good point about Quentin. Although I'll mention that Someone must be advising him on what to do with certain AL pitching. But as you point out, on that front, we'll never quite know the whole story.

 

That said, your logic also can extend in the other direction regarding Swisher. Oakland fans told us after the trade that he's streaky as all hell.

 

So much as CQ is the same as his past #s indicated, Swisher is back to his old tricks. No better no worse. But we cant say Walker has been the cause of him going "downhill," as you seem to allege in the 2nd-to-last line of your post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With Swisher, I just feel that he's streaky as all get out and doomed to be hustle guy who gets walks. PK and Thome, I think, are just getting older and less able to catch up to things.

 

The younger guys here, however, I think have been on the rise. That's enough for me to give pause to an extreme move like firing the hitting coach.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[ptatc]

if right now Walk is unlocking a lot of things Alexei has never seen before, firing him tomorrow and bringing someone in with a whole new set of principles could derail that work.

 

And Alexei's growth could be stunted.

 

 

 

This is what not doing anything (on that front) could accomplish. People are missing the entire basis of my argument, which is that Walker is doing some good to really good things. Alexei, Quentin.

 

The fault lies in the vets who are already set in their ways.

 

 

 

 

It doesnt sound all that well thought out to say, "Just do SOMETHING." It's as if you're admitting that exasperation is taking over reason.

 

Wrong don't you realize it's the coach's fault. Players have no responsibility and fans always know more than coaches. Coaches never realize that players have problems and never under any circumstances give them good advice.

 

This town more than any other really seems to blame the coaches/management. Maybe it's because Chicago is such a union dominated city. The players need to be held more accountable.

[29andPoplar]

Quentin has raked at every level he's played at. Now in his first healthy season at the major league level, he's doing it again. And Walk specifically said he didn't mess with CQ. I don't think he gets credit for that. Now, with Alexei, you may be right - I don't know. But that's a whole 1 improved player, if that. What about the rest? Players come here and go downhill, and at various different ages. I don't see Walk doing them much good.

You may well be right on all this and quite possibly a change is needed simply for change's sake.

 

However, isn't the equation ass backwards? The GM built this team of plodders and slow starters and apparently Guillen has a ton of personnel input. It is well known some of these guys:

 

- start slow

- are prone to long slumps

- aren't selective at the plate

- hit into lots of DP's

- aren't the most gifted in baseball fundamentals

- get power greedy

 

It starts with the type of team that's built. How they have gone all this time without a legit leadoff hitter I'll never know. Nor do they have one knocking on the door in the minors, in fact the best they have will maybe hit Kannapolis this year.

 

The recipe for success is not taking flawed guys and relying on your coaches to be miracle workers.

 

Now ... by me saying the blame is higher up and certainly on the players as well doesn't mean Walker is absolved. He is not absolved, he is accountable because the numbers and execution aren't there. "Sorry we're trying" doesn't cut it. This is the big leagues. Regardless of what happens this year, they will have to examine their philosophy. Thankfully it appears there's been a shift because higher on base guys (selective hitters) have been brought in.

 

When they sought out and acquired guys like Danks and Floyd, Williams said "we believe in their talent". They need to find some pure hitters and this Thursday is a fine time to start.

[Princess Dye]

This town more than any other really seems to blame the coaches/management. Maybe it's because Chicago is such a union dominated city. The players need to be held more accountable.

 

 

i sure hope the guy in your av is union.

[29andPoplar]

This town more than any other really seems to blame the coaches/management. Maybe it's because Chicago is such a union dominated city. The players need to be held more accountable.

 

Agree. Get better players who aren't prone to this type of performance. Easy to say, harder to do. The good news is, if you can pick up a Carlos Quentin every year that's a start.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

You may well be right on all this and quite possibly a change is needed simply for change's sake.

 

However, isn't the equation ass backwards? The GM built this team of plodders and slow starters and apparently Guillen has a ton of personnel input. It is well known some of these guys:

 

- start slow

- are prone to long slumps

- aren't selective at the plate

- hit into lots of DP's

- aren't the most gifted in baseball fundamentals

- get power greedy

 

It starts with the type of team that's built. How they have gone all this time without a legit leadoff hitter I'll never know. Nor do they have one knocking on the door in the minors, in fact the best they have will maybe hit Kannapolis this year.

 

The recipe for success is not taking flawed guys and relying on your coaches to be miracle workers.

 

Now ... by me saying the blame is higher up and certainly on the players as well doesn't mean Walker is absolved. He is not absolved, he is accountable because the numbers and execution aren't there. "Sorry we're trying" doesn't cut it. This is the big leagues. Regardless of what happens this year, they will have to examine their philosophy. Thankfully it appears there's been a shift because higher on base guys (selective hitters) have been brought in.

 

When they sought out and acquired guys like Danks and Floyd, Williams said "we believe in their talent". They need to find some pure hitters and this Thursday is a fine time to start.

There are certainly some high-power plodders on the team, no doubt. But these hitters are also all capable of better situational hitting, and in fact at times have been quite good at it. I don't expect Walker to divine these guys out of streakiness, but, we're now in June. This is a third of the season we've seen. And the team's hitting approach has been bad for most the time since Walker started, and in fact has been worse as time has gone on. These hitters may be streaky plodders, but I think the poor performance goes beyond that. A change in approach is needed, and Walker doesn't seem to be able to provide that.

 

I really think that having Harold Baines be the hitting coach is something worth exploring.

 

[The Ginger Kid]

I was just mocking people....there's no way we have enough in our system to get Kemp. I'm sure it would take very little for the Dodgers to acquire Uribe.

say hello to juan pierre...

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

if right now Walk is unlocking a lot of things Alexei has never seen before, firing him tomorrow and bringing someone in with a whole new set of principles could derail that work.

 

And Alexei's growth could be stunted.

 

 

 

This is what not doing anything (on that front) could accomplish. People are missing the entire basis of my argument, which is that Walker is doing some good to really good things. Alexei, Quentin.

 

The fault lies in the vets who are already set in their ways.

 

 

 

 

It doesnt sound all that well thought out to say, "Just do SOMETHING." It's as if you're admitting that exasperation is taking over reason.

 

 

Walk gets credit for NO ONE except maybe Dye, Konerko, and Crede. I can't think of any other hitters that really exploded with us before being good anywhere else.

 

Cabrera was good, Alexei was good (in Cuba), Q demolished the minors, Thome was good, AJ was almost as good, Swisher was good, Uribe has never been good. My point is that only 2 or 3 guys have done really well while Walker has been here, all the rest have done it elsewhere already, and now they all suck. Now for the opposite effect, look at Coop. Coop is a GREAT pitching coach because he can take strugggling guys and turn them great, and they can continue the success they had before they came here as well.

 

PLEASE fire Greg Walker. PLEASE call up Josh Fields.

[Princess Dye]

Cabrera was good, Alexei was good (in Cuba), Q demolished the minors, Thome was good, AJ was almost as good, Swisher was good, Uribe has never been good. My point is that only 2 or 3 guys have done really well while Walker has been here, all the rest have done it elsewhere already, and now they all suck.

 

1) Swisher lifetime average .246

 

2) You yourself pretty much add two more names here. AJ you add to the list by saying "almost as good," no? This means he's been better w/ walker. So that's one. Also, Alexei was good in Cuba, not here. That is a big transition, and we're fools to think Walker has had no role in that transition.

 

 

 

And Fields was probably better under Walk's guidance than at most other points in his pro career, no? That includes the recent dip, injury aside. And repeat that sentence for Owens, to a lesser extent. His best times have been when around Walker, for what they're worth.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[NorthSideSox72]

1) Swisher lifetime average .246

 

2) You yourself pretty much add two more names here. AJ you add to the list by saying "almost as good," no? This means he's been better w/ walker. So that's one. Also, Alexei was good in Cuba, not here. That is a big transition, and we're fools to think Walker has had no role in that transition.

 

 

 

And Fields was probably better under Walk's guidance than at most other points in his pro career, no? That includes the recent dip, injury aside. And repeat that sentence for Owens, to a lesser extent. His best times have been when around Walker, for what they're worth.

AJ was a better hitter before he got to the Sox. He is finally, this season, showing the old-good AJ at the plate - with the help of Baines, not Walker.

 

 

[ptatc]

i sure hope the guy in your av is union.

 

Yes, I work for a public university. EVERYBODY is union.

 

[letsgoarow]

So i just had a 30 minute coversation with a White Sox scout and got his take on this.

Edited June 2, 2008 by letsgoarow