witesoxfan Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 We give them Lee, Wright, Majewski, Ginter and Porzio for Colon and Henry Mateo. They get all of the above because they could use all of the above....Lee in LF or have him learn and play 1B, Wright in the rotation to "replace" Colon, Majewski and Porzio to go to the bullpen and Ginter to be a swingman type for them. We get Colon for the obvious reason of we need a big time starter. We would also get Henry Mateo in case Hummel and Harris flop and Jimenez has to take over at SS. Mateo is a leadoff type hitter who has a lot of speed and most likely some decent defense. The bad thing about him is the fact that he's nearly 27....not that he's old or anything, but for him to have not cracked into the big leagues fulltime means there has been some problems over there....maybe it's because Vidro is so good and he can't play SS or that he simply is not major league material. However, the least this would do is give us some insurance in case someone gets hurt or we need some speed or Harris and Hummel flop and Miles signs elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Just thought of another too....Lee, Wright and Honel/Rauch/Diaz/Garland. I'd prefer to send them Diaz, mainly because he has not been with the system as long and we have not put as much effort and such into him as we have Honel and Rauch, and Garland has some experience and is only going to be 23 this next year. As much as I think Diaz could be the next great pitcher, there is always the risk of him injuring himself and killing his career, much like Lorenzo Barcelo did. The deal I think will happen is Lee, Wright, Rauch and Ginter....as much as I hate to say it. That is probably the deal KW will make....it will be something close to that anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Hmmm, thats an interesting idea. Id be willing to part with Ginter, Porzio and even Majewski to get a stud like Colon. And youre gonna have to give something to get something, so we can part with Lee. We have enough offense. But about wright Im not so sure. We would have to give someone decent in addition to Lee but why him? Hes got the best arm on the team and with some seasoning I thinkhe could turn into a stud. I just dont want to see Colon come here and become Jaime Navarro and then have Wright go and turn into RJ off in Montreal... And who is this Mateo guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 OK, WSF, youre first idea was good but the second was a little nutty. The third, and likely, one is something Id rather avoid since I dont want to part with Rauch, but like I said, to get something you must give something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 foreget about it we ARENT GETTING COLON IN THIS CENTURY OR THE NEXT..........SO STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT OK...............lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Wright has been the most inconsistent pitcher on the staff. I like him and his stuff, but as for him compared to Colon, it's not even close. Wright had the potential to be a very good starter...however, the best he will probably become is a good #3. He just doesn't have the knack for pitching that Buehrle does, or he isn't as good as Colon....he has good stuff, but the best pitch he has is his knuckle curve...he's got a fastball that's got good natural movement and a pretty good changeup. If he could harness his stuff and use it to the best of his ability, I would love to have a guy like him on the staff. After all that, you have to look at the minor leagues....we have Honel, Rauch and Diaz waiting in the wings, Garland and Buehrle at the major league level and possibly Colon coming in from a different area. If I count right, that is 6 pitchers, and all of them are more highly regarded than Danny. And all 6 of them could be in the White Sox organization next year. Danny isn't even on the scale. Good stuff he has, but he's just not good enough. Maybe a location change will be better for him. I love to see the players that we ship away succeed(so long as the player we got in return suceeds as well, f***ing Ritchie....s***). It let's the other team do buisness in a better manner from there on out. I bet the Cubs and White Sox don't swing another deal, unless it is a minor league swap or something like that, for atleast 5 years and maybe even 10 or 20. The Sox gave the Cubs Sosa for Bell....and the Cubs gave the Sox Garland for Karchner. Garland could still put up huge numbers for the Sox, much like Sosa struggled right away with the Cubs(compared to now anyways). You get the point. All I'm saying is that right now, if we went into the season with Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Honel, Rauch, Diaz and Wright all being able to pitch at the major league level, Wright would be atleast 7th on the depth chart and possibly even farther down. Malone could pass him on it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Bribe Bud under the table to trade our 2nd String BatBoy for Colon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Plus, if the Sox pitch up an ace pitcher then can really afford to give up one of their pitchers like Wright, but not Garland or Buerhle and then actually be capable of just handing the keys over to Rauch and let him go. Plus, Ritchie is also their and I know he's a solid pitcher. He could end up being the come back player of the year this upcoming season. Yes, I'm that high on the guy. Well that and the fact he sucked so bad last year. Thomas could win it as well. Still, either way I think the Sox can afford to deal Lee and Wright if they land a big time pitcher, but they will have to resign Colon as well as Thomas, otherwise its a no go in my book. Also, if they make that move then why not spend another 500k and pick up Hollandsworth or at least Shinjo to play or platoon in left until Borchard is ready. Finally, if they could get it done for Lee, Wright and Ginter or Porzio and a mid level prospect thats nothing special or even the two of them, then I'm happy. Heck, Lee, Wright and Rauch and it isn't a horrible deal, imo, as long as you relock Colon. Thats right, Colon is that damn good. If he gets hurt, you can't blame KW, thats just a chance you have to be willing to take. Was it his fault Boomer got hurt, no? And can you say it was a terrible trade, heck no, cause if Boomer was healthy the Sox probably end up competiting for it all and it isn't like Sirotka is doing anything. As of right now Kip Wells and Josh Fogg are the only two really doing much anything that KW has dealt and I think Wells will be the only one to amount to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by witesoxfan All I'm saying is that right now, if we went into the season with Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Honel, Rauch, Diaz and Wright all being able to pitch at the major league level, Wright would be atleast 7th on the depth chart and possibly even farther down. Malone could pass him on it too. Well neither Honel or Malone are ready right now, while Diaz should be ready some time this year, but hopefully the Sox will be in no hurry meaning he can wait till next year. They also have Heath Phillips who is compared to Mark Buerhle. Don't forget that they can afford to part with him as Rauch, Biddle, and Ritchie are all capable of starting for the Sox in the 5 hole at the beginning of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Here is what everyone in this post is forgetting.......... The Expos aren't trading Colon because they want to restock their Minor Leagues...... They are trading him because they want to Dump Salary! Colon = 6 mil per Lee = 4.5 Manos = 5 mil...... We can't get Colon without taking on alittle more salary..... or Give them 5 prospects or sumthin.......sumthin I'd rather not do. Here are a few guys on the Spos with salary, who we'd might look into O'Leary = 5 mil ( could acquire him and pay something like half his salary) Wil Codero = 4.5 (same) Well thats my 2 cents anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 I'd take O'Leary...he's left-handed and offers some power from that side of the plate. He's a little spendy for platoon time, but if we ditched Lee along the line somewhere, it would make for an interesting left-field battle in ST. In that case....how about Biddle, Ginter, Porzio and Wright for Colon and O'Leary? And then somewhere along the line we trade Lee...and then we sign Shinjo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 id rasther keep lee then take on oleary..he has had alot of personal problems in the past that carried over onto the field..thats what got him run out of boston HSC is right..we aint getting colon..not now ..not never... it real easy to figure out the next KW move...if it would help the team but increase payroll ever so slightly...forget it..it aint happening.. what free agebt picthers are we getting??...ummm how about guys CNNSI says will work for food...jeff d'amico and jaimey wright:puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 dont you mean jamie right? or is it wright... hell whats the difference as long as it says pitcher next to their bio in the program huh.......ya think thats how kenny decides his rolls ..looks through other team programs and then lays them all down closes his eyes and picks..... round and round they go where they stop nobody knows lol.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by MurcielagoHere is what everyone in this post is forgetting.......... The Expos aren't trading Colon because they want to restock their Minor Leagues...... They are trading him because they want to Dump Salary! Colon = 6 mil per Lee = 4.5 Manos = 5 mil...... We can't get Colon without taking on alittle more salary..... or Give them 5 prospects or sumthin.......sumthin I'd rather not do. Here are a few guys on the Spos with salary, who we'd might look into O'Leary = 5 mil ( could acquire him and pay something like half his salary) Wil Codero = 4.5 (same) Well thats my 2 cents anyway. They want to retool. Basically the Expos want to gain the prospects back cause they gave up a lot. They would like to drop salary, but they aren't in a bind where they are being forced to, from what I know. Don't look to steal an ace, but look to have to give something to get something. Yes, you can get him for a bit less by taking on his salary. Of course if the Sox took on all that money then the deal could just work, problem is JR doesn't want to take on money at least not that kind of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by baggio202id rasther keep lee then take on oleary..he has had alot of personal problems in the past that carried over onto the field..thats what got him run out of boston HSC is right..we aint getting colon..not now ..not never... it real easy to figure out the next KW move...if it would help the team but increase payroll ever so slightly...forget it..it aint happening.. what free agebt picthers are we getting??...ummm how about guys CNNSI says will work for food...jeff d'amico and jaimey wright:puke I'd take Jeff D'Amico as long as it wouldn't cost us anything. Wel if any increase in salary means it can't be done, then it isn't KW anyone should blame, but soley JR. If KW can't pay someone then he's pretty much stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 Just figured something out....O'Leary and Cordero are both FA's...so they won't be trading us any of them. Not only that, but including those two, IF we did trade for Colon(HSC, don't jump on me just yet ), and you include both Cordero and O'Leary and Lee is part of the Colon deal, wouldn't that be about $11.5-$13.5 million off their salary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 and how much are you going to add to ours.... if we add we arent going to get it... if we subtract then its a done deal....remember kw only has about 50cents to work with.. he gambled the rest away in vegas at the craps table........i think this year for xmas im going to send him a pair of fuzzy dice he can hang from the rear view mirror of his car so it will constantly remind him of the stupid things he said this offseason ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Michelle, can I send you some fuzzy dice if the Sox end up getting Colon? Or maybe we should just wait and you could send me some 2003 World Series Tickets, cause its a coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 lmao jas... i want to watch you hold your breath waiting on that series ok.... on second though dont do it ... i dont want you to pass out permanently cause you do such great works on these boards......send the fuzzy dice to kenny williams c/o comiskey park.....lol....i wont be needing them cause WE arent getting colon............ :**** kenny williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Originally posted by hotsoxchick1foreget about it we ARENT GETTING COLON IN THIS CENTURY OR THE NEXT..........SO STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT OK...............lol I agree... Montreal gave up a ton for Colon, they aren't going to take morons like Ginter, Majewski, etc. for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Trading Wright would be a huge mistake. The guy had a good season. That trade you suggested in the first thread would be a disaster down the line for the Sox. Again, we have to be like normal teams when making a trade. To send some fricking stiff prospects for the expensive player we want. Other teams rob us and if we do what you want we will be robbed again. Lee and Wright alone are way too much, not to mention those other guys. What we have in many cases isn't half bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 24, 2002 Author Share Posted November 24, 2002 Wright hasn't shown me anything except signs of brilliance...his career ERA is over 5.00, he gives up a ton of homers, and he's 25...that's not old, but players are usually as good as they are going to be at around the age of 27...I don't think he can improve much more. Lee is a good hitter, but that's it. He is mediocre to bad in the field, a dips*** as a baserunner, and rarely has productive outs, and one type of productive outs, hitting the ball to the right side with a runner on 2nd, is not recorded. I rarely see Lee do that...then again, I rarely see the games. Ginter, Majewski and Porzio are relievers, and they would take them...Majewski is pretty damn good as is Ginter, and Porzio would be a good lefty out of the pen, but we have plenty of relief prospects...we still have Sanders, Stewart, Adkins, Valentine, Almonte, Munoz, and Diaz or Honel could be used out of the pen as well, though I'd be against that more than I would for it. We can part with those 3. As for Colon, he'll be 30 this year, and is in the middle of his prime. He pitched extremely well this year and won 20 games, 10 with both the Indians and Expos. Colon is a consistently good pitcher who throws hard and has playoff experience, and has experience pitching well in the playoffs. His ERA in the playoffs is 3.29 and it was below 2.00 in 1998 and 2001. You don't think Montreal would do that? They would complete their outfield, having it be Lee, Endy Chavez and Guerrero from left to right...they would have Jose Macias at 3B and Brad Wilkerson at 1B. The Expos could be very good next year, and have no need for 2B Mateo...we could take him. Or if they don't want to give him to us for just that, that's fine with me...we don't need him. They would have a good starting rotation with Wright maybe finding consistency with a location change, and Ginter, Majewski and Porzio become good relievers for them. They would want to deal with us again, which is a very, very good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 trading carlos lee is a very TOUGH decision. he's always been considered a player with LOADS of potential. the only problem he's ever had has been his patience. he was always too agressive and was always getting beat by smart pitchers. how many times has Lee gone down swinging on a fastball (or offspeed) pitch head high and in? a lot but in the second half of 2002, he got off that. he took a TON of pitches, waited for his pitch, and tried to go to right field when needed. my fear with Lee is we won't get his true value, because I wouldn't be suprised to see him put up strong numbers this year. I can't say what they will be because he'll end up batting 6-7 in the lineup. unless Thomas signs with someone else (which is a long shot at this point). in that case, Lee will be batting third, which I have always believed is his ideal spot in the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 24, 2002 Author Share Posted November 24, 2002 Lee is a hell of a player...but if we got Colon for him(along with others of course), and Lee put up huge numbers in Montreal, they would be willing to deal with us again, and Montreal is best known as the best minor league system in the majors, growing such players as RJ, Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom, Andres Galaragha, Vlad Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Javy Vazquez, Cliff Floyd, and to certain extents, Pedro and Moises Alou(yes, that bum on the north side...he was pretty good in Enron)....wouldn't it be a good deal to have them be willing to trade to us again, so one of these times we can rip them off royally? That has got to be KW's goal in all these s***ty trades...he'll rip these motherf***ers off like a bastard one of these times...maybe he'll get us Brian Giles for Corwin Malone and Josh Paul, guarenteeing that Malone is the next Tom Glavine and Paul the next Pudge(Pudge being Carlton Fisk, of course). And then he trades Carlos Lee to LA for Hideo Nomo...LA thinks they are getting the Carlos Lee that hit .261 with 26 bombs and 80-some RBI this year, but in reality, they are getting his brother, who plays for Bristol, one of the White Sox rookie leagues. And boy does KW feel cool... .....and he actually did a good job this time. " Dan Evans," he says. " " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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