The POSitive Walker Thread

[Texsox]

Someone please try and build a case why Walker is still the hitting coach? We've read forever that he's supported 100% inside the organization and the players seem to like him. What are they seeing that no one else outside the organization seems to see?

[TCQ]

Someone please try and build a case why Walker is still the hitting coach? We've read forever that he's supported 100% inside the organization and the players seem to like him. What are they seeing that no one else outside the organization seems to see?

 

He looks like Snoopy and that makes me smile

[RME JICO]

Someone please try and build a case why Walker is still the hitting coach? We've read forever that he's supported 100% inside the organization and the players seem to like him. What are they seeing that no one else outside the organization seems to see?

Because chicks dig the Pop-up?

[Jimbo's Drinker]

His name spelled backwards is GERG

[shipps]

He has this killer card trick that amazes everyone in the clubhouse.

[Controlled Chaos]

He's got soul!!!

http://www.gregwalker.com/

[Dick Allen]

Konerko and Dye have had huge years under his care. Thome was pretty solid the past 2 seasons despite age and injury. Crede has been better this year than anyone here would have imagined. Ramirez has been getting better. Quentin, although solid in the minors hadn't done much at the major league level until now. Toby Hall is hitting over .300. The problem is not the hitting coach. Its the mix of players. Slow guys who swing for the fences slump a lot and for a long time. This needs to be offset with guys who can run a little bit. Unfortunately that has been ignored. I don't know about you, but I think its crazy to believe an offense is solid when your leadoff hitter, a veteran, has a career OBP of .320.

 

What I don't understand is if it is Walker's fault that Swisher swings at pitches that bounce 3 feet in front of home plate and a foot outside and takes strike 3 right down the middle, how come in the game thread instead of ripping him or Konerko or Thome, isn't all the ripping on Walker. Its apparent its not the player's fault they don't hit. I wish I had a job where I made millions that when I sucked it would just be blamed on someone else.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Dick Allen

[letsgoarow]

Hitting Coaches dont hit....they are a scapegoat for slumps.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Bring back the Sex Dolls

[NorthSideSox72]

Hitting Coaches dont hit....they are a scapegoat for slumps.

A slump doesn't last 2 years.

 

If we were talking about just this season, I'd agree - moving the hitting coach is too rash. But we are talking about a team that, offensively, has been below expectations for a couple years now. Even in 2005, they weren't great - just good enough. The only time the team really looked good offensively was the first half of 2006.

 

This isn't a slump. Its a consistent track record of hitters getting worse on arriving in Chicago, or being here and then getting worse with Walker arrived, or just plain hitting below expectations. The success stories of hitters improving under his tuteledge are very few, and the disappointments many. At some point, being the hitting coach, that responsibility has to land on his doorstep. IMO, now is that time.

 

[Dick Allen]

A slump doesn't last 2 years.

 

If we were talking about just this season, I'd agree - moving the hitting coach is too rash. But we are talking about a team that, offensively, has been below expectations for a couple years now. Even in 2005, they weren't great - just good enough. The only time the team really looked good offensively was the first half of 2006.

 

This isn't a slump. Its a consistent track record of hitters getting worse on arriving in Chicago, or being here and then getting worse with Walker arrived, or just plain hitting below expectations. The success stories of hitters improving under his tuteledge are very few, and the disappointments many. At some point, being the hitting coach, that responsibility has to land on his doorstep. IMO, now is that time.

The pitching was pretty bad in 2006. The pitching was pretty bad most of 2007, yet somehow Don Cooper has regained his genius status this year. Its the players, not the hitting coach. You want a better hitting coach, acquire better hitters. Look at the young guys to see how effective Walker is. Jerry Owens was better with Walker than he was or is at anytime. Same with Fields. Ramirez is hitting better now than every other team thought he would or they would have offered him more than less than half the average salary. Dye was better than he ever was in 2006. Now he's a little older. Konerko came back after 2003 and was great, now he's a little older and hurt. Thome came back from an injury, a team was willing to pay half his salary, and he put up an OPS in 2006 for the season that is higher than Carlos Quentin's right now. In fact, Thome's 2 seasons with the White Sox are the 2 highest homer seasons for a left handed batter in White Sox history. He's older now. There have been many postitives with Walker. Its fantasy to think a new hitting coach is going to be able to turn back the clock. Earlier, there was a quote about Edmonds praising the Cubs hitting coach. Was it the hitting coach or a 25 MPH wind blowing out that helped him?

Edited June 3, 2008 by Dick Allen

[WCSox]

A slump doesn't last 2 years.

 

If we were talking about just this season, I'd agree - moving the hitting coach is too rash. But we are talking about a team that, offensively, has been below expectations for a couple years now. Even in 2005, they weren't great - just good enough. The only time the team really looked good offensively was the first half of 2006.

 

This isn't a slump. Its a consistent track record of hitters getting worse on arriving in Chicago, or being here and then getting worse with Walker arrived, or just plain hitting below expectations. The success stories of hitters improving under his tuteledge are very few, and the disappointments many. At some point, being the hitting coach, that responsibility has to land on his doorstep. IMO, now is that time.

 

Notice that many of the veterans who aren't hitting (Thome, Paulie, Crede, Cabrera) are 30 or older. That doesn't necessarily mean that their skills have diminished to the point where they're not effective anymore (except maybe in Thome's case), but nagging injuries tend to become more of a problem on the wrong side of 30 (Paulie this year, and Thome/Dye/Crede last year). As bad as Swisher and Fields have looked at the plate at times, I'd be more comfortable with those guys two years down the road than Konerko or Crede.

 

If Walker is the problem, how did the Sox hit well in '03, '04, and (most of) '06? And how did they go from very solid situational hitters in '05 to a crew that pops up three straight times with a runner on 3rd and no outs? And how is it that Quentin, who doesn't have a $20+ million contract and began this season desperately trying to salvage his ML career, has thrived under Walker? It seems to me that many of the veterans are just showing up to work to collect a paycheck. They looked like they gave up at this point last year and are making incredibly stupid mental mistakes at the plate this year.

Edited June 3, 2008 by WCSox

[29andPoplar]

Notice that many of the veterans who aren't hitting (Thome, Paulie, Crede, Cabrera) are 30 or older. That doesn't necessarily mean that their skills have diminished to the point where they're not effective anymore (except maybe in Thome's case), but nagging injuries tend to become more of a problem on the wrong side of 30 (Paulie this year, and Thome/Dye/Crede last year). As bad as Swisher and Fields have looked at the plate at times, I'd be more comfortable with those guys two years down the road than Konerko or Crede.

 

If Walker is the problem, how did the Sox hit well in '03, '04, and (most of) '06? And how did they go from very solid situational hitters in '05 to a crew that pops up three straight times with a runner on 3rd and no outs? And how is it that Quentin, who doesn't have a $20+ million contract and began this season desperately trying to salvage his ML career, has thrived under Walker? It seems to me that the players are more to blame than Walker. They looked like they gave up at this point last year and are making incredibly stupid mental mistakes at the plate this year.

 

A few of the hitters (at least) are having mental issues. Konerko is well noted for analyzing everything to death and constantly tinkering with his mechanics. That approach doesn't help one relax and hit. The bad thumb only makes things worse for him and it's my belief we will see a very sub par year from Konerko vs. career standards. The best thing Walker and Gellinger can do with Konerko is to tell him, "Here's the video on this pitcher. Look for a pitch in your zone, don't overcomplicate things like you always do, and if you don't see a pitch you like, talk your walks."

 

Whatever Crede is hitting right now, my guess is it's not too far off his career average. Just a guess on my part but I bet this pending free agency isn't helping him either.

 

Thome, I actually see signs of him coming around. He has been over aggressive if anything and swinging at bad pitches. It looks like he is starting to calm down a bit and possibly he is getting into a groove. We'll see.

 

Cabrera I see coming around a bit too.

 

Swisher is a mental mess at the moment. This is a guy you bench for a few days. He needs to calm down. Maybe get him a few at bats if there's a blowout one way or the other. Play him sparingly this week and let him regroup.

 

The rest of the guys are doing about what many people thought they'd do ... Pierzynski, Dye, Brian Anderson, Hall.

 

The problem is, they are damn lucky to be in first place with these huge hitting slumps. They can't afford another one and these key players will have to pick it up. If it's determined that Greg Walker and the video guy are a big part of why the key guys aren't hitting, by all means launch the hitting coach and the video guy.

 

My guess though, is we will see two things ... one, another revamped lineup. Two, Kenny Williams pushing even more aggressively for an addition of some sort. As to who, when, where will he play ... it will depend on what's available and at what cost.

Edited June 3, 2008 by 29andPoplar

[NorthSideSox72]

Notice that many of the veterans who aren't hitting (Thome, Paulie, Crede, Cabrera) are 30 or older. That doesn't necessarily mean that their skills have diminished to the point where they're not effective anymore (except maybe in Thome's case), but nagging injuries tend to become more of a problem on the wrong side of 30 (Paulie this year, and Thome/Dye/Crede last year). As bad as Swisher and Fields have looked at the plate at times, I'd be more comfortable with those guys two years down the road than Konerko or Crede.

 

If Walker is the problem, how did the Sox hit well in '03, '04, and (most of) '06? And how did they go from very solid situational hitters in '05 to a crew that pops up three straight times with a runner on 3rd and no outs? And how is it that Quentin, who doesn't have a $20+ million contract and began this season desperately trying to salvage his ML career, has thrived under Walker? It seems to me that many of the veterans are just showing up to work to collect a paycheck. They looked like they gave up at this point last year and are making incredibly stupid mental mistakes at the plate this year.

 

This is not an old team - and just over 30 isn't old by hitting standards. Thome is getting old by baseball standards, but the rest of the lineup is still relatively young.

 

Quentin trying to salvage a career? Was that sarcasm? He's been a stud prospect at every level. His longest MLB season was like 150 at bats, and he was injured.

 

And by the way, I am not saying the players don't bear responsibility. Of course they do. But when you have a long list of players that get worse under a certain coach, and only a few who get better, the coach is ALSO responsible.

 

Another trend to look at - the Sox, under Walker, have consistently been among the league basement dwellers in terms of pitches seen per at bat. This is not age, or decline - this is a bad hitting approach.

 

[29andPoplar]

And by the way, I am not saying the players don't bear responsibility. Of course they do. But when you have a long list of players that get worse under a certain coach, and only a few who get better, the coach is ALSO responsible.

 

Another trend to look at - the Sox, under Walker, have consistently been among the league basement dwellers in terms of pitches seen per at bat. This is not age, or decline - this is a bad hitting approach.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here. But let me take your 2nd point first. Lately pitchers have been throwing "right there" first pitch fastballs to guys like Swisher, Konerko especially. The hitters need to adjust and the hitting coach needs to tell them that's the tendancy. There is a fallacy that every at bat needs to be lengthy. Sometimes in the 5th and 6th inning if you've seen a pitcher 1-2 times, it's best to hack at a good first pitch fastball. These are the hitters we have and good or bad they need to play to their strengths. Our hitters like fastballs and they've shown in the past they hit fastballs. If the best one you're gonna get is 1st pitch, hack at it.

 

Your first point, if I look at the starters, let's see here ...

 

Konerko: has been with the Sox forever, so I wouldn't say he's regressed under this hitting coach.

Thome: bad first two months no doubt, but were his '06 and '07 numbers a significant regression? Not sure.

Ramirez: too new, doesn't count.

Cabrera: your point is well taken on him, if we are to judge after two months.

Crede: see Konerko.

Quentin: he's doing well, so he wouldn't apply.

Swisher: your point is well taken on him too. He had a good 1st couple of weeks then has slumped. Let's not forget that Swisher is a career .251 hitter and he has been up and down average wise in his career. Not defending anyone, just saying.

Dye: I don't really think the point you made fits here.

Pierzynski: Your point may apply in terms of average, but frankly I think Pierzynski changed his approach, particularly in 2007. It's no secret he was told by Guillen and Williams they wanted the guy who'd spray the ball to LF like he used to do in Minnesota. Pierzynski responded by losing weight which may help him. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Let's add Uribe. Uribe is a dumb hitter plain and simple. Uribe does what Uribe wants to do at the plate, which is why you see him playing on a one year contract despite his excellent defensive skills.

 

I won't add Brian Anderson here because the topic of Brian Anderson has been beaten to death.

 

So I don't know if I'd agree that many have regressed and only a few have improved.

[WCSox]

This is not an old team - and just over 30 isn't old by hitting standards. Thome is getting old by baseball standards, but the rest of the lineup is still relatively young.

 

Thome is a dinosaur by baseball standards, and Cabrera and Dye are both past their primes as hitters (mid-30's).

 

Quentin trying to salvage a career? Was that sarcasm? He's been a stud prospect at every level. His longest MLB season was like 150 at bats, and he was injured.

 

Yeah, Quentin was so highly-regarded by the D-backs that they dealt him for a lesser prospect. He'll be 26 in August and his two years in Arizona were plagued with injuries and a general failure to live up to expectations. Ozzie didn't even expect him to make the roster back in ST. So, yeah, I'd say that Quentin's career wasn't going very well this past winter and that he was under some pressure to produce at the ML level.

 

And by the way, I am not saying the players don't bear responsibility. Of course they do. But when you have a long list of players that get worse under a certain coach, and only a few who get better, the coach is ALSO responsible.

 

Another trend to look at - the Sox, under Walker, have consistently been among the league basement dwellers in terms of pitches seen per at bat. This is not age, or decline - this is a bad hitting approach.

 

I don't doubt that the Sox could potentially benefit from a new hitting coach. Whether or not Walker is a "bad" hitting coach is up for debate, but one could certainly argue that the Sox's hitters aren't responding to him. So I wouldn't object to letting him go.

 

That said, I find it odd that Sox hitters were so much more productive under Walker from early '03 until about August of '06 (with a drop-off in '05 due to the losses of Carlos, Maggs, and Frank). I think there's a much better chance that many of them have regressed as hitters over time than Walker has regressed as a coach over time. And when I see an in-his-prime vet like Swisher swinging at balls in the dirt and popping up with a runner on 3rd, I get the feeling that there's a general lack of discipline in the clubhouse as well.

Edited June 3, 2008 by WCSox

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Bring back Hrininak.

[NorthSideSox72]

Maybe I'm missing something here. But let me take your 2nd point first. Lately pitchers have been throwing "right there" first pitch fastballs to guys like Swisher, Konerko especially. The hitters need to adjust and the hitting coach needs to tell them that's the tendancy. There is a fallacy that every at bat needs to be lengthy. Sometimes in the 5th and 6th inning if you've seen a pitcher 1-2 times, it's best to hack at a good first pitch fastball. These are the hitters we have and good or bad they need to play to their strengths. Our hitters like fastballs and they've shown in the past they hit fastballs. If the best one you're gonna get is 1st pitch, hack at it.

 

Your first point, if I look at the starters, let's see here ...

 

Konerko: has been with the Sox forever, so I wouldn't say he's regressed under this hitting coach.

Thome: bad first two months no doubt, but were his '06 and '07 numbers a significant regression? Not sure.

Ramirez: too new, doesn't count.

Cabrera: your point is well taken on him, if we are to judge after two months.

Crede: see Konerko.

Quentin: he's doing well, so he wouldn't apply.

Swisher: your point is well taken on him too. He had a good 1st couple of weeks then has slumped. Let's not forget that Swisher is a career .251 hitter and he has been up and down average wise in his career. Not defending anyone, just saying.

Dye: I don't really think the point you made fits here.

Pierzynski: Your point may apply in terms of average, but frankly I think Pierzynski changed his approach, particularly in 2007. It's no secret he was told by Guillen and Williams they wanted the guy who'd spray the ball to LF like he used to do in Minnesota. Pierzynski responded by losing weight which may help him. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Let's add Uribe. Uribe is a dumb hitter plain and simple. Uribe does what Uribe wants to do at the plate, which is why you see him playing on a one year contract despite his excellent defensive skills.

 

I won't add Brian Anderson here because the topic of Brian Anderson has been beaten to death.

 

So I don't know if I'd agree that many have regressed and only a few have improved.

I agree on most of those, with a few exceptions. I think Crede has become too much of a dead pull hitter with the Sox, which hurts him. AJP got here and became a worse hitter, and really only improved for this year, working with Baines.

 

And yeah, I wouldn't blame any hitting coach for Uribe. He seems to me to be pretty much uncoachable.

 

So really, the only hitter who improved with the Sox is Dye. Konerko and Crede were brought up within the system, so, its hard to judge. Others have gotten worse.

 

Finally, while I agree that O-Cab has gotten a lot of first-ball fastballs, the trend of low pitch counts per at bat has been true for a number of years now, and I do think its relevant and indicative of a poor approach. Not every at bat needs to be long, and against some pitchers, you should swing early. But when you average it out, comparing to other teams, and you consistently see fewer pitches... that, to me, screams bad approach.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Yeah, Quentin was so highly-regarded by the D-backs that they dealt him for a lesser prospect. He'll be 26 in August and his two years in Arizona were plagued with injuries and a general failure to live up to expectations. Ozzie didn't even expect him to make the roster back in ST. So, yeah, I'd say that Quentin's career wasn't going very well this past winter and that he was under some pressure to produce at the ML level.

I agree with some of your post, but the above is just way off base. If you want to know why Quentin was traded, look at Arizona's outfield - it was already incredibly crowded with very, very good players, who were already established. ARI needed something other than outfielders. So, they went out and traded for a very good position prospect at a position where they actually had a need. I have never read anything indicating that Quentin was failing to live up to expectations. Look at his performance over the years - he was a huge hitter at every level, until he got hurt, and played a quarter of a season of at bats for ARZ. While hurt. Ozzie didn't expect him to start because he thought he needed more time for the shoulder to recover - this was reporter all over the place. So no, I don't think you can by any definition say his career was tanking or wasn't going well.

 

[The Critic]

He smells like potpourri and he gels his hair on the weekends.

He can recite the alphabet backwards in less than 10 seconds, even after 3 beers.

His sock puppet musical about the 1983 Winning Ugly team simply must be seen to be believed.

His Vance Law impression is the highlight of the puppet show - it's absolutely dead-on.

He can parallel park with his eyes closed.

He can whittle a regulation size and weight bat from a tree branch in less than 4 minutes.

His Hall & Oates t-shirt collection is majestic.

 

These are just some of the reasons Greg Walker can never be fired as hitting coach.

[WCSox]

I agree with some of your post, but the above is just way off base. If you want to know why Quentin was traded, look at Arizona's outfield - it was already incredibly crowded with very, very good players, who were already established. ARI needed something other than outfielders. So, they went out and traded for a very good position prospect at a position where they actually had a need. I have never read anything indicating that Quentin was failing to live up to expectations. Look at his performance over the years - he was a huge hitter at every level, until he got hurt, and played a quarter of a season of at bats for ARZ. While hurt. Ozzie didn't expect him to start because he thought he needed more time for the shoulder to recover - this was reporter all over the place. So no, I don't think you can by any definition say his career was tanking or wasn't going well.

 

Quentin was traded for a Single-A player who is currently hitting .211 and isn't even in the D-backs organization anymore. And, yes, I realize that ARI's outfield was packed, but if Quentin was such a blue-chip bad-ass, why did they deal him for a lesser prospect with no experience above A-ball? Is he incapable of playing 1B, or were they absolutely convinced that Conor Jackson was a better option? If the D-backs were so confident in Quentin's abilities, I find it odd that they dealt him while he was still recovering from a shoulder injury after two mediocre partial ML seaosns (i.e., when his trade value was at its lowest), instead of sending him back to AAA and allowing him to heal, hit better, and have more trade value. Unless he was out of options, it seems to me that the D-backs lost confidence in Quentin.

 

[southsideirish71]

On the Score "Ozzie stated that he protected Greg Walker, and that if my name is going on be out there so is his."

 

right afterwords they asked Greg about his comments about Ozzie.

 

Greg Walker "Out of respect for the owner, I have no comment"

 

 

Edited June 4, 2008 by southsideirish71

[southsideirish71]

Walk met with JR, and is upset with the Guillen comments.

 

Walker, the Sox's hitting coach for five years, spent Monday meeting with board Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf and barely concealed his displeasure toward Guillen, his Sox teammate for nearly all of the 1980s.

 

"I've never quit anything in my life," Walker said tersely. "I'll leave it at that. I have too much respect for Jerry Reinsdorf and what he's done for me. He's a good man and a good friend and he wants me to keep fighting, so I'm going to.

 

 

Asked directly if his friendship with Guillen had been damaged, Walker replied:

 

"I'm not going to respond to any of that. I'm kind of digesting what's going on, and I'm doing my job."

 

Edited June 4, 2008 by southsideirish71

[Dick Allen]

Walk met with JR, and is upset with the Guillen comments.

I would guess this would mean this is Walker's last year as hitting coach. He's really pissed at Ozzie for hanging him out to dry.

[southsideirish71]

I would guess this would mean this is Walker's last year as hitting coach. He's really pissed at Ozzie for hanging him out to dry.

 

I am not a fan of greg, however you can't blame him for being upset. Dangling anyones job in the press will piss off anyone. In my view, if you have come to the conclusion to do something, then you do it. You don't use the press the threaten. Nothing is accomplished with that.