All Things Probama

[bmags]

I disagree on some things you are saying kapkomet. I think in a lot of ways support of the democrat is support in a Middle East foreign policy with no escalation unless a change in circumstances. With McCain there is a worry there will be another Iraq opened up on a country, with the democrats there is an assurance that these policies won't continue under them.

 

On FISA, the scary thing was that they weren't supporting it that gung ho. There is no reason they should've compromised, I think they just pushed the issue to put the GOP in another scandal, but I don't think many democrats disagreed. They were acquiescing to the very influential left-wing bloggers like dailyKOS imo. For months, behind the scenes, Hoyer has been making this compromise. It's clear the dem's never had any interest in this.

 

BUt, yes, I agree for the most part. They back down way to easily for fear of being 'soft'. I can understand, it's been their achilles heel for 25 years, but, I don't care for it.

 

But, my support for Sen. Feingold couldn't have been higher. If he ever falls my political optimism will fall with him.

[kapkomet]

I disagree on some things you are saying kapkomet. I think in a lot of ways support of the democrat is support in a Middle East foreign policy with no escalation unless a change in circumstances. With McCain there is a worry there will be another Iraq opened up on a country, with the democrats there is an assurance that these policies won't continue under them.

 

On FISA, the scary thing was that they weren't supporting it that gung ho. There is no reason they should've compromised, I think they just pushed the issue to put the GOP in another scandal, but I don't think many democrats disagreed. They were acquiescing to the very influential left-wing bloggers like dailyKOS imo. For months, behind the scenes, Hoyer has been making this compromise. It's clear the dem's never had any interest in this.

 

BUt, yes, I agree for the most part. They back down way to easily for fear of being 'soft'. I can understand, it's been their achilles heel for 25 years, but, I don't care for it.

 

But, my support for Sen. Feingold couldn't have been higher. If he ever falls my political optimism will fall with him.

Iraq, no doubt, is a cluster****. And yet, I don't think McCain is that stupid to escalate the issue (i.e. attacking Iran). I think Isreal is going to do it for us, but that's another debate entirely.

 

Status quo in Iraq isn't acceptable, yet, in some ways it is, if you can get those people to take control of their own stuff. Do a slow drawdown, and let them take control of their destiny. But, the Democrats have ALWAYS been in this end game, they agree with it, yet the manufactured soundbytes are far from that policy (we need to get out, and I will do it as president!!!!) is ALWAYS what the Republicans have put forth anyway. So, it's a steaming pile of poop window dressing that the Dems want you to believe, when in reality, their policy is not that different then the Republican's policy.

 

[jackie hayes]

I don't think I'm wrong. What is it that we hear all the time? Get out of Iraq. No compromises on issues like this telecomm law. Etc. etc. etc. Then, when it's really quiet, all of a sudden, these guys fold like a wounded tent in a hurricane. The Democrats are duping the "anti-war" crowd something fierce, promising something that they never have an intention of keeping.

 

Now, I have always said that both parties do it. I just happen to think that the Dems are quite a bit more backhanded about it, or that is to say, Republicans are more in your face about being corrupt, while the Dems are just sneaky about it.

If you hear only, Get out of Iraq, period, no matter what, right now, it's because you're only listening to the extremist House members, and you are wrong in assuming that to be a generally held Dem view. Obama certainly hasn't been saying that we should pull out immediately, no matter the consequences. Opposition to starting the war does not at all imply opposition to leaving Iraq a self-sufficient place given what's already been done and undone.

 

The telecom immunity thing obviously was a capitulation on Obama's part, and noone's arguing that. But, first, let's not call any of this "corruption", as that's a much stronger word. It was a political calculation. And, no, this one thing does not make Obama worse than McCain, who has in such calculations abandoned everything that once made him compelling, nor Bush, who actually swore to uphold laws, then asked his AG to give him ways to ignore them.

 

If you're arguing against the Obama personality cult, then make that clear. I'm well aware that he's just a politician, not to be trusted more than any other, and I dislike the rock start thing that's happened. But to claim that this one act makes the Dem party worse than what the Republican party has proved to be over the last many years is ridiculous.

[kapkomet]

If you hear only, Get out of Iraq, period, no matter what, right now, it's because you're only listening to the extremist House members, and you are wrong in assuming that to be a generally held Dem view. Obama certainly hasn't been saying that we should pull out immediately, no matter the consequences. Opposition to starting the war does not at all imply opposition to leaving Iraq a self-sufficient place given what's already been done and undone.

 

The telecom immunity thing obviously was a capitulation on Obama's part, and noone's arguing that. But, first, let's not call any of this "corruption", as that's a much stronger word. It was a political calculation. And, no, this one thing does not make Obama worse than McCain, who has in such calculations abandoned everything that once made him compelling, nor Bush, who actually swore to uphold laws, then asked his AG to give him ways to ignore them.

 

If you're arguing against the Obama personality cult, then make that clear. I'm well aware that he's just a politician, not to be trusted more than any other, and I dislike the rock start thing that's happened. But to claim that this one act makes the Dem party worse than what the Republican party has proved to be over the last many years is ridiculous.

You're right, "corruption" is too strong of a word, although, at it's heart, these people (without regard to party) are the most corrupt bunch of imbeciles ever.

 

Re: your point on a "generally held view" about Iraq, boy, if you listen to the MSM long enough, they sure want you to think that the "extreme left" is in control of the party and that's why the soundbytes get played over and over - then, Obama will all of a sudden decide we need to "stay the course" (aka a slow draw down) in Iraq... whoops... but that's not the soundbytes we get quite often.

 

I've said over and over that I don't like McCain, and many of the reasons are for the exact point you bring forth in your post... we're on the same page there.

 

And finally, at least YOU are clear that Obama is just like the rest of them. Bravo - seriously - I'm glad you at least see it. A lot of people, on this board included, like to think the guy's perfect. He's not, and he's just like the rest of them, except the man is eloquent and can deliver a speech. Big deal.

Edited June 25, 2008 by kapkomet

[BigSqwert]

A lot of people, on this board included, like to think the guy's perfect.

I definitely don't think he's perfect but he's the best bet I've seen in a while.

[jackie hayes]

You're right, "corruption" is too strong of a word, although, at it's heart, these people (without regard to party) are the most corrupt bunch of imbeciles ever.

 

Re: your point on a "generally held view" about Iraq, boy, if you listen to the MSM long enough, they sure want you to think that the "extreme left" is in control of the party and that's why the soundbytes get played over and over - then, Obama will all of a sudden decide we need to "stay the course" (aka a slow draw down) in Iraq... whoops... but that's not the soundbytes we get quite often.

 

I've said over and over that I don't like McCain, and many of them are for the exact reasons you bring forth in your post... we're on the same page there.

 

And finally, at least YOU are clear that Obama is just like the rest of them. Bravo - seriously - I'm glad you at least see it. A lot of people, on this board included, like to think the guy's perfect. He's not, and he's just like the rest of them, except the man is eloquent and can deliver a speech. Big deal.

Obama's been pretty upfront on Iraq. He has said that he wants to withdraw soon and claims he could do it within a year or so. (Iirc, he made a claim saying he'd get the troops out before the end of 2009 -- presumably that means the final drawdown would start before the end of 2009.)

 

It's fair to question how realistic that goal is (I think it's pretty ludicrous, personally). But it's not fair to say he's pulling a bait-and-switch.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Obama's aim: 14 Bush states and local races

Barack Obama will focus his resources largely in 14 states George W. Bush won in 2004, his chief field operative said Tuesday, hoping to score upsets in places such as Virginia, Indiana and Georgia.

 

But winning the White House won’t be his only goal, deputy campaign manager Steve Hildebrand told Politico: In an unusual move, Obama’s campaign will also devote some resources to states it’s unlikely to win, with the goal of influencing specific local contests in places such as Texas and Wyoming.

 

[Balta1701]

Is there any reason the democrats are letting this happen? Is it just so they can try and make themselves look better on security issues or what? Because I am baffled at this turn of events, I never thought they'd let this happen.

Because, quite simply, AT&T and its friends have a boatload of money and it's enough to buy off half the Democratic Caucus.

[HuskyCaucasian]

John McCain- "I feel that, in the context of history, Watergate will be a very minor item as compared with the other achievements of this Administration, particularly in the area of foreign affairs. I do hope that this country will get over Watergate and get going again on the very serious problems that we're facing today."

[HuskyCaucasian]

hmm....

 

John McCain on Yucca mountain- "Yucca mountain is the place it can be made safe"

 

Then he goes on to say he wouldn't feel comfortable with the nuclear material being transported through his state.

 

So 45 new nuclear reactors by 2025 or 2030... but he doesnt want the material stored "on site" at the plants, but feels the transportation is unsafe. So.... do we teleport it there?

 

He recently said that Yucca was a NIMBY (“Not In My BackYard”) Problem, but he doesnt want it in his own backyard.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

I am going to f***ing throw something at my computer screen....

 

John McCain on April 14th, 2008:

McCain praised Virginia Democrat Sen. Jim Webb, the primary author of the bill that passed the Senate last week, as an "honorable man who takes his responsibility to veterans very seriously," but disagreed with Webb's plan, which provides education benefits to members of the military after just one enlistment in the service. "It would be easier, much easier, politically for me to have joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation," McCain said.

 

John McCain Today-

McCain Takes Credit for GI Bill He Opposed

I'm happy to tell you that we probably agreed to an increase in educational benefits for our veterans that not only gives them increase in their educational benefits, but if they stay in for a certain period of time than they can transfer those educational benefits to their spouses and or children. That's a very important aspect I think of incentivizing people of staying in the military.

 

 

Ya know, that bill he spoke out against, and missed the vote on. Yep, WE really agreed. WE my ass.

 

PS: How can it be "we probably agreed"? Didnt the bill already pass?

Edited June 27, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Chet Lemon]

he's just like the rest of them, except the man is eloquent and can deliver a speech. Big deal.

 

Except he is not. He was against the war in Iraq before that position was vogue, and that position was incredibly risky (politically speaking).

 

[kapkomet]

Except he is not. He was against the war in Iraq before that position was vogue, and that position was incredibly risky (politically speaking).

So that's the only thing that he's "different" on? He's no different.

[HuskyCaucasian]

McCains Failed To Pay Taxes On California Home For Four Years, Newsweek To Report

 

Newsweek is set to publish a highly embarrassing report on Sen. John McCain, revealing that the McCains have failed to pay taxes on their beach-front home in La Jolla, California, for the last four years and are currently in default, The Huffington Post has learned.

 

Under California law, once a residential property is in default for five years, it can be sold at a tax sale to recover the unpaid taxes for the taxpayers.

 

The McCains own at least seven homes through a variety of trusts and corporations controlled by Cindy McCain.

 

McCain campaign scrambling... Developing...

 

No worries. The "Straight Talk Express" will simply say it was an "accounting error".

 

Interesting, it seems they didnt pay the bill until they got called out on it:

Shortly after NEWSWEEK inquired about the matter, the McCain aide e-mailed a receipt dated Friday, June 27, confirming payment by the trust to San Diego County in the amount of $6,744.42. County officials say the trust still owes an additional $1,742 for this year, an amount that is overdue and will go into default July 1. Told of the outstanding $1,742, the aide said: "The trust has paid all bills shown owing as of today and will pay all other bills due."

 

Edited June 29, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[HuskyCaucasian]

So much for John McCain's pledge to run a nice, clean campaign free of cheap shots. Guess the 'Straight Talk Express' drove off the road...

 

 

 

 

[lostfan]

lol, that ad started ok cuz I thought he was going after him on issues but it ended up really stupid. It looked like something you'd see on the Daily Show or Colbert Report, but then you see "Paid for by John McCain 2008"

[bmags]

that's just mccain showing off he knows what photoshop is.

[HuskyCaucasian]

that's just mccain showing off he knows what photoshop is.

well, we now know he knows "the internet exists" and what photoshop is. impressive.

[HuskyCaucasian]

John MCCain was just flat out asked "Do you think Sen. Obama is patriotic".

McCain sidestepped the question saying Obama's family story is a great story. And many American's are proud of him"

 

hmm.... never really answered the question.

[kapkomet]

John MCCain was just flat out asked "Do you think Sen. Obama is patriotic".

McCain sidestepped the question saying Obama's family story is a great story. And many American's are proud of him"

 

hmm.... never really answered the question.

OMG MCCAIN SAID OBAMA IS UNPATRIOTIC! That's what you'll dig up next.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

OMG MCCAIN SAID OBAMA IS UNPATRIOTIC! That's what you'll dig up next.

it was a yes or no question. he never answered. He WANTS to leave the door open for people to attack it. If he says "yes, he is patriotic and cares abotu this country", it's done. Now the door is open.

 

By the way, a few questions later he was asked a yes or no question about Afghanistan and Pakistan. His response: "yes and yes. Next question".

Edited June 30, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[Cknolls]

it was a yes or no question. he never answered. He WANTS to leave the door open for people to attack it. If he says "yes, he is patriotic and cares abotu this country", it's done. Now the door is open.

 

By the way, a few questions later he was asked a yes or no question about Afghanistan and Pakistan. His response: "yes and yes. Next question".

 

 

Why ask the question in the first place?

 

[lostfan]

Why ask the question in the first place?

For the same reason someone would ask questions about Obama's patriotism.

[NorthSideSox72]

Why ask the question in the first place?

In case you haven't noticed, this is the modern media. They don't care about substance, or issues... they want soundbytes, controversy, and fluff.

 

[Cknolls]

In case you haven't noticed, this is the modern media. They don't care about substance, or issues... they want soundbytes, controversy, and fluff.

 

Exactly. My bad.