All Things ProCain

[HuskyCaucasian]

Cknolls, thanks for the info. Very informative.

Thanks for your service.

[NorthSideSox72]

That hasn't worked both ways AT ALL this election. If that is the standard, that is one thing. If you are pushing for it to be the standard, you should live up to that standard.

I should live up to that standard? How have I not? I think I've been pretty damn clear about my feelings on this - I don't care what the candidate's followers are doing. I just don't. The only exception is if they are in their de facto administration, their inner circle, and are speaking FOR the campaign.

 

And I am not sure why you think it hasn't worked both ways. If anything, I am seeing quite a bit of B.S. from both wings, and neither candidate has been strong on stopping it. They can't anyway.

 

[lostfan]

I should live up to that standard? How have I not? I think I've been pretty damn clear about my feelings on this - I don't care what the candidate's followers are doing. I just don't. The only exception is if they are in their de facto administration, their inner circle, and are speaking FOR the campaign.

 

And I am not sure why you think it hasn't worked both ways. If anything, I am seeing quite a bit of B.S. from both wings, and neither candidate has been strong on stopping it. They can't anyway.

I think that was intended to be a dig on Obama and not you FWIW

[southsider2k5]

I think that was intended to be a dig on Obama and not you FWIW

 

I should have been more specific... sorry!

[mr_genius]

As a Navy Grad '00, let me tell you how it works. The academy produces roughly 800 new ensigns and 200 USMC 2nd LTs with each class (rough numbers). About 350 end up in flight training. The rest are submariner (the real cream of the crop) and surface warfare. There are a smattering of Special Warfare (SEALs), Medical, Supply, Crytpo and Intel billets, but those require exceptional strength, medical issues or outstanding grades. The Airdales — both pilots and Naval Flight Officers (NFO)s — Like Goose in Top Gun — are just people who want to train to be pilots/NFOs. They leave the Academy as flight student ensign. Thats it. Once at Pensacola — now known as McCain Field after John S. McCain Sr. (the candidate's grandfather), the students must compete for the good jobs. If McCain ended up as a Jet Pilot it was because he was good on the stick. I would have chosen to be a pilot if I didn't have bad eyes. Here's another fact, USNA produces more pilots than the Airforce Academy in Colorado Springs. Also, of the percentage of Marines that are commissioned, about one third will be either Pilots or NFOs too, just flying for the Mean Green instead of Blue and Gold.

 

First, my background: USNA 1989, currently an admissions outreach volunteer for USNA (known as Blue and Gold Officers, we counsel prospective candidates through the admissions process). I couldn't help but notice this gem in the Media Blog

 

...After four abysmal academic years at Annapolis distinguished only by his misdeeds and malfeasance, no one with a record resembling McCain's would have been offered such a prized career path. The justification for this and subsequent plum assignments should be documented in McCain's naval file.

 

Simply put, this is nonsense. Available pilot billets vary from year to year, but aviation billets are open on a competitive basis to all midshipmen that are physically qualified. In practical terms, it boils down to having 20/20 vision and excellent hearing at the time of graduation. It is entirely possible that there were unfilled billets during McCain's era because there were not enough graduates that met the vision standards. In my class, we had pilots that graduated near the bottom; they were focused on doing the minimal academic work needed to graduate, because they knew their were pilot billets available regardless of class standing. This was different from my own experience of the more competitive Naval Flight Officer program (navigators and weapons officers). NFOs only needed 20/20 vision with corrective lenses. Also, there were less billets available, so this program was much more competitive. I barely made the cut, graduating in the middle of my class.

 

Today, my outreach is complicated by the fact that USNA is mandated to have 2/3rds of the incoming class with 20/20 vision. That requirement is there to keep the fleet manned with pilots. Medical specialists can get more technical, but the typical 18-22 year old is going to go through some vision changes as they mature, and at graduation, there are even fewer aviation candidates. What this means in all practical terms is that if a typical midshipman, regardless of class standing, meets the physical standards required, than aviation is a likely career path.

 

It's all a moot point anyway. Whether or not McCain got a "plum assignment", he certainly paid for it in Hanoi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if Jeff Klein served his country. Typical.

 

 

yet another Huffingtonpost 'scoop' destroyed by those pesky things known as facts.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Funny math

 

http://www.poorandstupid.com/2008_06_15_ch...462049832146448

 

ANYBODY GOT WALMART'S PHONE NUMBER HANDY? Obama yesterday in Detroit:

 

My energy plan will invest $150 billion over the next ten years to establish a green energy sector that will create up to 5 million jobs over the next two decades. Good jobs...

 

Let's see... $150 billion over ten years is $15 billion a year. Let's see... 5 million jobs. That's $3,000 a year per job. Let's see... that's a wage rate of about $1.40 an hour. If those are "good" jobs, I'll take a bad one if you don't mind.

 

Does this mean Obama favors repealing the minimum wage?

[kapkomet]

Funny math

 

http://www.poorandstupid.com/2008_06_15_ch...462049832146448

Well, it sure sounded good to say he was investing $150 billion in alternative energy. I bet people ate that s*** up, now didn't they? That's my whole point with Obama... he SOUNDS good, but when analysis is done on what he says, it doesn't mean diddly doo.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Funny math

 

http://www.poorandstupid.com/2008_06_15_ch...462049832146448

SS, you work in finance - so I am surprised you see the math that way. In no way did Obama say he was going to fund 5 million jobs with $150B. He said he'd invest $150B in the sector, which he feels could create 5 million jobs. And I actually think that number might be conservative, in terms of how many jobs could be created in that sector. But he's not saying $150B is the SALARY of those jobs. He is saying he wants to fund projects with that money, which should help push businesses into growth that creates jobs.

 

So, actually, the math is just fine. You may not agree that 5 million jobs could be created by the investment, but, there is nothing mathematically wrong with his statement.

 

 

[lostfan]

SS, you work in finance - so I am surprised you see the math that way. In no way did Obama say he was going to fund 5 million jobs with $150B. He said he'd invest $150B in the sector, which he feels could create 5 million jobs. And I actually think that number might be conservative, in terms of how many jobs could be created in that sector. But he's not saying $150B is the SALARY of those jobs. He is saying he wants to fund projects with that money, which should help push businesses into growth that creates jobs.

 

So, actually, the math is just fine. You may not agree that 5 million jobs could be created by the investment, but, there is nothing mathematically wrong with his statement.

I was getting ready to say something similar, along the lines of 150 billion sparking growth which will lead to 5 million jobs in the future. That's totally different than, say, spending 150 billion on federal contracts and creating X amount of jobs.

[kapkomet]

SS, you work in finance - so I am surprised you see the math that way. In no way did Obama say he was going to fund 5 million jobs with $150B. He said he'd invest $150B in the sector, which he feels could create 5 million jobs. And I actually think that number might be conservative, in terms of how many jobs could be created in that sector. But he's not saying $150B is the SALARY of those jobs. He is saying he wants to fund projects with that money, which should help push businesses into growth that creates jobs.

 

So, actually, the math is just fine. You may not agree that 5 million jobs could be created by the investment, but, there is nothing mathematically wrong with his statement.

 

Damn, that's good. NSS is on top of it.

 

I don't think that SS saw the math that way, but I do think the point remains that people can spin anything they want to in any way they want to. BUT, I do think that these candidates, without regard to party, will spit out rhetoric like this that all sounds like the world is going to be such a better place for all, no matter who is president, all because of them. Okay... sure... it's up to us, really.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

 

Damn, that's good. NSS is on top of it.

 

I don't think that SS saw the math that way, but I do think the point remains that people can spin anything they want to in any way they want to. BUT, I do think that these candidates, without regard to party, will spit out rhetoric like this that all sounds like the world is going to be such a better place for all, no matter who is president, all because of them. Okay... sure... it's up to us, really.

Sure. His saying that 5 million jobs will be created is a complete and total guess. At best, an educated one. At worst, he pulled it out of his ass.

 

I was just talking about the math, and saying he didn't get the numbers, which wasn't really true.

 

[lostfan]

BUT, I do think that these candidates, without regard to party, will spit out rhetoric like this that all sounds like the world is going to be such a better place for all, no matter who is president, all because of them. Okay... sure... it's up to us, really.

Well, yeah. That's the point of campaigning isn't it?

[Balta1701]

 

Damn, that's good. NSS is on top of it.

I was ready to say the same thing a half hour beforehand but figured y'all wouldn't give it much credit if it came from one of the socialists.

[kapkomet]

Well, yeah. That's the point of campaigning isn't it?

And I hate it. All Kaperbole ™ aside, campaigning - you might as well just have a steaming pile of stinky ass manure right behind you on stage every single time out. I can't stand the rhetoric and lies all to basically pull wool over the entire countries' eyes. And I'm not talking about one party or the other. There's just no honesty or integrity anymore to just about anything, and it disgusts me.

[lostfan]

And I hate it. All Kaperbole ™ aside, campaigning - you might as well just have a steaming pile of stinky ass manure right behind you on stage every single time out. I can't stand the rhetoric and lies all to basically pull wool over the entire countries' eyes. And I'm not talking about one party or the other. There's just no honesty or integrity anymore to just about anything, and it disgusts me.

I used to feel the same way, but now I look at it from a practical standpoint - if a politician based a campaign off complete and total honesty, and told the American public what they needed to hear instead of what they wanted to hear, and having broken ranks too far from their party to boot, there is no way they get elected. It sucks but that's reality. Sure you might have the occasional apparent exception to the rule like Ron Paul, which is refreshing, but... well, where's Paul now?

[Balta1701]

I used to feel the same way, but now I look at it from a practical standpoint - if a politician based a campaign off complete and total honesty, and told the American public what they needed to hear instead of what they wanted to hear, and having broken ranks too far from their party to boot, there is no way they get elected. It sucks but that's reality. Sure you might have the occasional apparent exception to the rule like Ron Paul, which is refreshing, but... well, where's Paul now?

And Ron Paul's campaign didn't try to spin away inconvenient facts like the statements from his newsletter and those sorts of details?

[lostfan]

And Ron Paul's campaign didn't try to spin away inconvenient facts like the statements from his newsletter and those sorts of details?

Note the word "apparent"

 

...and that just reinforces my point anyway.

Edited June 17, 2008 by lostfan

[kapkomet]

I was ready to say the same thing a half hour beforehand but figured y'all wouldn't give it much credit if it came from one of the socialists.

 

Good call, you socialist.

 

[mr_genius]

And Ron Paul's campaign didn't try to spin away inconvenient facts like the statements from his newsletter and those sorts of details?

 

kind of like how Obama tries to spin his support of stuff like the Wright's Trumpet magazine which had Obama on the cover. A mag that supports Farrakhan and suggest 9-11 was an inside job ?

 

Some of Ron Paul's supporters are crazy, and so are a bunch of Obama's.

 

[southsider2k5]

I used to feel the same way, but now I look at it from a practical standpoint - if a politician based a campaign off complete and total honesty, and told the American public what they needed to hear instead of what they wanted to hear, and having broken ranks too far from their party to boot, there is no way they get elected. It sucks but that's reality. Sure you might have the occasional apparent exception to the rule like Ron Paul, which is refreshing, but... well, where's Paul now?

 

I do respect Ron Paul for what he is. I don't respect the fact that it isn't the 18th century anymore, and he doesn't get that. I like a lot of his concepts as goals to move towards, ie smaller government, smaller taxes, less government regulation and meddling etc. He would just collapse our entire republic if he did it at the speed he wanted to. In a weird sort of way, I would have preferred him to this John McCain.

[lostfan]

I do respect Ron Paul for what he is. I don't respect the fact that it isn't the 18th century anymore, and he doesn't get that. I like a lot of his concepts as goals to move towards, ie smaller government, smaller taxes, less government regulation and meddling etc. He would just collapse our entire republic if he did it at the speed he wanted to. In a weird sort of way, I would have preferred him to this John McCain.

I agree. I liked his desired end state a lot, but his "in the meantime" was completely unrealistic and borderline absurd. The America we know would be unrecognizable.

 

And I don't know if it's just him campaigning or what, but this doesn't seem to be the John McCain I knew even just a couple years ago.

[Cknolls]

SS, you work in finance - so I am surprised you see the math that way. In no way did Obama say he was going to fund 5 million jobs with $150B. He said he'd invest $150B in the sector, which he feels could create 5 million jobs. And I actually think that number might be conservative, in terms of how many jobs could be created in that sector. But he's not saying $150B is the SALARY of those jobs. He is saying he wants to fund projects with that money, which should help push businesses into growth that creates jobs.

 

So, actually, the math is just fine. You may not agree that 5 million jobs could be created by the investment, but, there is nothing mathematically wrong with his statement.

 

 

When has ANY gov't projection, be it tax revenue, jobs etc., ever been correct. Sounds good though.

[southsider2k5]

I agree. I liked his desired end state a lot, but his "in the meantime" was completely unrealistic and borderline absurd. The America we know would be unrecognizable.

 

And I don't know if it's just him campaigning or what, but this doesn't seem to be the John McCain I knew even just a couple years ago.

 

Just like when Bush campaigned as a centrist and everyone knew better, I am hoping McCain campaigning as a conservative is the same deal. I really don't think deep down this is who he really is, just like I don't think Obama is who he is campaigning as. Regardless, for my 2 cents, a conservative McCain is still better than the alternative. He has never been my first choice, but still the other option scares me.

[southsider2k5]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...zI0ZDc0OGRlZGE=

 

raqi Foreign Minister: After Talking With Obama, His Iraq Plan Sounds Similar To McCain

 

The Republican National Committee is spotlighting this article by Jake Tapper, "Obama and Iraqi Foreign Minister Have Different Memories of their Conversation."

 

Indeed, Obama's description of their conversation and Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari don't quite mesh, but there's no glaring contradiction of one saying "X" and the other saying "Not X." It's more, one said "X", the other said "Y." Obama's account suggests the Iraqis are "concerned about their sovereignty and are not seeking a long term occupation by the U.S."; while Zebari told the Post that his message to Obama "was very clear. . . . Really, we are making progress. I hope any actions you will take will not endanger this progress."

 

But there's a more glaring issue in Zebari's description of the talk to the Washington Post: "He said he was reassured by the candidate's response, which caused him to think that Mr. Obama might not differ all that much from Mr. McCain. Mr. Zebari said that in addition to promising a visit, Mr. Obama said that "if there would be a Democratic administration, it will not take any irresponsible, reckless, sudden decisions or action to endanger your gains, your achievements, your stability or security. Whatever decision he will reach will be made through close consultation with the Iraqi government and U.S. military commanders in the field."

 

First, it's hard to square Zebari's description of Obama's remarks with the candidate's earlier exchange in the Philadelphia debate:

 

ABC's Charles Gibson: "And, Senator Obama, your campaign manager, David Plouffe, said, 'When he is' — this is talking about you - 'When he is elected president, we will be out of Iraq in 16 months at the most. There should be no confusion about that.' So you'd give the same rock-hard pledge, that no matter what the military commanders said, you would give the order to bring them home?"

 

Obama: "Because the commander-in-chief sets the mission, Charlie. That's not the role of the generals. And one of the things that's been interesting a out the president's approach lately has been to say, 'Well, I'm just taking cues from General Petraeus.' Well, the president sets the mission. The general and our troops carry out that mission."

 

Beyond that, aren't Obama's comments to Zebari — presuming they're being characterized accurately — a glaring contradiction of the Obama campaign's constant declaration of "profound differences" with McCain on the Iraq War? Isn't a large chunk of his support from the Democratic grassroots built on this notion that a President Obama would bring the troops home quickly?

 

Is a trip by Austan Goolsbee to the Iraqi embassy the next step? Will there be private assurances that Obama's Iraq stand on the campaign trail is “more reflective of political maneuvering than policy”?

[southsider2k5]

The most interesting part of this is the author.

 

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/1...overage-puzzle/

 

Campaign coverage puzzle

 

OK, I don’t get it. Barack Obama’s new Social Security proposal, love it or hate it, is huge news; it would push tax rates on some high-income Americans back to the levels of the 1970s.

 

Yet the proposal has received minimal media coverage — certainly as compared with the candidate’s Father’s Day speech, which was beautiful but didn’t have major policy implications.

 

If a candidate announces a major policy initiative but nobody hears about it, did it really happen?

 

Instant update: I went over to the Tax Policy Center’s blog, and discovered that the Obama campaign is itself downplaying the initiative:

 

The campaign clarified that the threshold would be $250,000, but Senator Obama has not specified what the rate would be, when it would take effect, whether it would apply to employers, employees, or both, or what the tax base would be.

 

Um, if the Obama campaign hasn’t figured out what this policy is, perhaps it would be best not to speak about it?