Canada does what US Dems won't

[EvilMonkey]

inks a Free Trade agreement with Columbia. This will now help the CANADIAN economy, instead of the AMERICAN economy, all thanks to some American unions twisting the sacks of the Democratic politicians they control. You would think the unions here would welcome the opportunity for increased business. I guess not. You would think that with the rampant anti-Americanism in South America that the US government would be anxious to have a pro-American ally in the area in Columbia. I guess not. Dems like Pelosi would rather pal around with Hugo Chavez than engage a pro democracy country like Columbia.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/st...y/Business/home

[juddling]

It was probably the Starbucks lobby not wanting an influx of coffee beans so they can keep charging people their $5 for a cup of coffee

[BigSqwert]

Iraq does what US Republicans won't.

[GoSox05]

inks a Free Trade agreement with Columbia. This will now help the CANADIAN economy, instead of the AMERICAN economy, all thanks to some American unions twisting the sacks of the Democratic politicians they control. You would think the unions here would welcome the opportunity for increased business. I guess not. You would think that with the rampant anti-Americanism in South America that the US government would be anxious to have a pro-American ally in the area in Columbia. I guess not. Dems like Pelosi would rather pal around with Hugo Chavez than engage a pro democracy country like Columbia.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/st...y/Business/home

 

 

So you have no problem with things like this. You should never reward murder.

 

http://www.teamster.org/08news/nr_080515_5.asp

 

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

So you have no problem with things like this. You should never reward murder.

 

http://www.teamster.org/08news/nr_080515_5.asp

Ok, first, i don't think you could have found a more biased article if it bit you in the ass and said howdy. Look at the article you posted. 400 murders since he took office 5 years ago. How about it going from a high of 275 in 1996 down to 39 last year? How few does it need to be before it is ok? Zero? Because that would be an unrealistic goal anywhere.

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282008/posto..._lie_108526.htm

 

UNIONS' BIG COLOMBIA LIE

By MICHAEL FUMENTO

 

April 28, 2008 -- HOUSE Speaker Nancy Pelosi has put US- Colombia Trade Promotion Agreement on the back burner - apparently permanently.

 

"The Colombia FTA is dead on arrival," explained Rep. Mike Michaud (D-Maine), co-founder of the House Trade Working Group. "Congress can't take up an agreement with Colombia until the horrific violence and labor-rights record are addressed.

 

So it's not sheer protectionism that drives the Democrats and Big Labor, as the deal's supporters claim. It's "horrific violence," especially against unions.

 

John Sweeney, president of the largest US federation of unions, the AFL-CIO, detailed the allegations in a Washington Post op-ed April 14: "In Colombia, joining a union or advocating for workers' rights can be a de facto death sentence," he said. "The human-rights atrocities against union activists and supporters are not isolated, rogue events; they are committed largely by the armed forces and paramilitary organizations with ties to elected officials close to President [Alvaro] Uribe."

 

Sweeney also insisted "human-rights groups say extrajudicial murders of civilians by the Colombian armed forces on Uribe's watch are increasing" and "more than 400 Colombian unionists have been murdered during Uribe's tenure."

 

Not true.

 

Yes, Colombia has a high murder rate. With much of the country still in the control of vicious leftist narco-terrorists (supported by Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez), you'd expect a high murder rate among any one group - from union members to midgets. That said, last year's 17,198 homicides (among 45 million people) was a drop of 40 percent from the 28,837 in 2002.

 

Deaths among Colombia's union members plummeted even farther - from a high of 275 in 1996 to only 39 last year. That's a drop of 86 percent in a decade.

 

And that's 39 killings (a figure the AFL-CIO itself cited last month) out of about 800,000 union workers - or about five murders per 100,000 union members. How does that constitute "a de facto death sentence" - when the murder rate for the population as a whole is about eight times higher?

 

In fact: "The Colombian government," notes Reuters, has "tripled spending on protection for unionists, human-rights activists and other at-risk individuals and established a special unit to prosecute crimes against trade unionists."

 

To make its case, the AFL-CIO cites data going back 22 years - but Uribe only took office in 2002.

 

So just how few deaths are required before Sweeney - and Democrats who hide behind "horrific violence" - would support the trade deal? "Zero," writes Sweeney. Of course, that's impossible: Any nation with both murders and unions will have murdered union members.

 

In short, the only killing that really matters to these critics is that of the Colombia free-trade pact.

 

Michael Fumento is director of education and research at the American Security Council Foundation.

 

But I guess working with a country trying to do the right thing is bad, so we should instead have lunch with Hugo.

[EvilMonkey]

Iraq does what US Republicans won't.

NOt related to Coluimbia. Go away.

[KipWellsFan]

And since the U.S. economy is completely going in the tank and Canada almost totally depends on the American economy this won't mean dick for Canada anyway.

Edited June 9, 2008 by KipWellsFan

[EvilMonkey]

And since the U.S. economy is completely going in the tank and Canada almost totally depends on the American economy this won't mean dick for Canada anyway.

Columbia is one of the biggest importers of heavy equipment like bulldozers. I am sure that Caterpillar here in Illinois could use the extra orders they would get from reduced tariffs. That would help keep many union employees working in this state alone. Those orders could go to New Holland (owned by Fiat), Komatsu, Hitachi or many others NOT based in America. Many a boost to keep our economy out of the tank would be this trade agreement?

Edited June 9, 2008 by Alpha Dog

[GoSox05]

Ok, first, i don't think you could have found a more biased article if it bit you in the ass and said howdy. Look at the article you posted. 400 murders since he took office 5 years ago. How about it going from a high of 275 in 1996 down to 39 last year? How few does it need to be before it is ok? Zero? Because that would be an unrealistic goal anywhere.

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04282008/posto..._lie_108526.htm

 

 

 

But I guess working with a country trying to do the right thing is bad, so we should instead have lunch with Hugo.

 

 

 

So linking an article by a union website is biased, but not the New York Post? A newspaper that referred to Senator Barack Obama as "Osama" (Bin Laden). Ok.

[EvilMonkey]

So linking an article by a union website is biased, but not the New York Post? A newspaper that referred to Senator Barack Obama as "Osama" (Bin Laden). Ok.

I showed you numbers that showed that violence has been dropping at a drastic rate, countering your source (which I mocked). You mocked my source only. Do you dispute that things are getting better there? Do you disagree that things are improving? Why should the US not help ourselves, and a potential ally, in an area where we have very few. He is also one of the few in the area standing up to Chavez. Or do you think Hugo is a good guy?

[GoSox05]

I showed you numbers that showed that violence has been dropping at a drastic rate, countering your source (which I mocked). You mocked my source only. Do you dispute that things are getting better there? Do you disagree that things are improving? Why should the US not help ourselves, and a potential ally, in an area where we have very few. He is also one of the few in the area standing up to Chavez. Or do you think Hugo is a good guy?

 

 

They have decreased. Only 17 trade unionists have been assassinated this year. The most dangerous country for a trade unionist to live in. The fear that people have in joining a union shows. The country is down to 3 percent union membership. A country where many work in sweat shop like conditions.

 

 

This is classic. He stands up to the evil communist. It dosen't matter how he treats his own people as long as he stands up to Hugo Chavez. Much like Augusto Pinochet, who we supported. He also stood up to the evil commies.

 

 

I don't support Hugo Chavez, but I won't support someone who has an atrocious worker rights record just because he is against Hugo Chavez.

[EvilMonkey]

They have decreased. Only 17 trade unionists have been assassinated this year. The most dangerous country for a trade unionist to live in. The fear that people have in joining a union shows. The country is down to 3 percent union membership. A country where many work in sweat shop like conditions.

 

 

This is classic. He stands up to the evil communist. It dosen't matter how he treats his own people as long as he stands up to Hugo Chavez. Much like Augusto Pinochet, who we supported. He also stood up to the evil commies.

 

 

I don't support Hugo Chavez, but I won't support someone who has an atrocious worker rights record just because he is against Hugo Chavez.

So improvement doesn't matter to you? I guess your small, prefect world is pretty lonely. How do you feel about countries where the unions try to take away secret ballots, so they can intimidate those that vote against unions? How do you feel about countries where anti-union workers are routinely harassed and assaulted? How about countries where unions make back room deals with companies, and sometimes even governments, without the membership knowing? I would wager that on an evil scale, the SEIU has done worse to workers by sheer volume than any supposed attacks against union people in Columbia, which is still not proven to be by the government.

[BigSqwert]

So improvement doesn't matter to you? I guess your small, prefect world is pretty lonely. How do you feel about countries where the unions try to take away secret ballots, so they can intimidate those that vote against unions? How do you feel about countries where anti-union workers are routinely harassed and assaulted? How about countries where unions make back room deals with companies, and sometimes even governments, without the membership knowing? I would wager that on an evil scale, the SEIU has done worse to workers by sheer volume than any supposed attacks against union people in Columbia, which is still not proven to be by the government.

Where is your outrage towards relations with Cuba?

[EvilMonkey]

Where is your outrage towards relations with Cuba?

I am all for opening relations with Cuba. I also don't like the dryfoot policy regarding Cuban defectors, whereby if they set foot on land, they get asylum.

[lostfan]

You know, the fact that we not only trade with China, but basically support their economy even to the point where it hurts our own pretty much makes any argument about not wanting to deal with a country for moral reasons kind of hypocritical.

[BigSqwert]

You know, the fact that we not only trade with China, but basically support their economy even to the point where it hurts our own pretty much makes any argument about not wanting to deal with a country for moral reasons kind of hypocritical.

Couldn't agree more.

[GoSox05]

So improvement doesn't matter to you? I guess your small, prefect world is pretty lonely. How do you feel about countries where the unions try to take away secret ballots, so they can intimidate those that vote against unions? How do you feel about countries where anti-union workers are routinely harassed and assaulted? How about countries where unions make back room deals with companies, and sometimes even governments, without the membership knowing? I would wager that on an evil scale, the SEIU has done worse to workers by sheer volume than any supposed attacks against union people in Columbia, which is still not proven to be by the government.

 

I'm not talking about other countries. I'm talking about Columbia. I really don't know what you mean by my small world and being lonely, but I think it was a personal attack of some sort.

Edited June 9, 2008 by GoSox05

[EvilMonkey]

I'm not talking about other countries. I'm talking about Columbia. I really don't know what you mean by my small world and being lonely, but I think it was a personal attack of some sort.

You are right, it was. I take it back. Should not have said that. However, in talking about Columbia, you seem very closed minded to the fact that they are improving drastically, and instead focusing on the fact that anything happened at all. There are 'unionists' murdered all over the world. And anti-union people as well. This deal can only help American companies, so I don't understand the liberal opposition, other than they are doing the bidding of their union overlords. You say 'don't reward murder', i say, 'reward the drastic drop in murder'. You are never going to have zero here.

[GoSox05]

You are right, it was. I take it back. Should not have said that. However, in talking about Columbia, you seem very closed minded to the fact that they are improving drastically, and instead focusing on the fact that anything happened at all. There are 'unionists' murdered all over the world. And anti-union people as well. This deal can only help American companies, so I don't understand the liberal opposition, other than they are doing the bidding of their union overlords. You say 'don't reward murder', i say, 'reward the drastic drop in murder'. You are never going to have zero here.

 

 

Now is the rate of assassination to union leaders droping because of reform or because there is barely any left? I also think this will cost more Americans their jobs.

 

You come off as extremely anti-union. I've never heard of union workers called "overlords" before.

Edited June 10, 2008 by GoSox05

[farmteam]

Dumb question...is this related to Plan Colombia at all? Similar benefits, that sort of thing? Or is it completely different?

[jackie hayes]

Now is the rate of assasination to union leaders droping because of reform or because there is barely any left? I also think this will cost more Americans their jobs.

 

You come off as extremely anti-union. I've never heard of union workers called "overlords" before.

Do you mean assassinations, or murders? Do you differentiate between the two?

[EvilMonkey]

Now is the rate of assasination to union leaders droping because of reform or because there is barely any left? I also think this will cost more Americans their jobs.

 

You come off as extremely anti-union. I've never heard of union workers called "overlords" before.

I am very anti union, but if it helps business, then it also helps people keep their jobs, union or otherwise. And I'll find the link later, but I remember it saying that there were over 800,000 union members in Columbia. I think there are still some left. Oh, and I was referring to the union bosses as the overlords. The average worker has no idea, or say, in how their union dues are spent on politics. Half a business' employees could be Republican, but still have to have their money spent campaigning for a Democrat, because that's who the bosses want.

[GoSox05]

Do you mean assassinations, or murders? Do you differentiate between the two?

 

 

Well there is a lot of murder in Columbia, but I was trying to use the word assassination to make the point that besides the random murder cases, people are being killed for political reasons. I really don't know if makes any sense of not.

[jackie hayes]

Well there is a lot of murder in Columbia, but I was trying to use the word assassination to make the point that besides the random murder cases, people are being killed for political reasons. I really don't know if makes any sense of not.

You're talking about numbers, though. I'm asking about those numbers you are referring to -- are they assassinations of trade unionists, or all murders of trade unionists? If they are assassinations, how are those differentiated from other murders?

[GoSox05]

You're talking about numbers, though. I'm asking about those numbers you are referring to -- are they assassinations of trade unionists, or all murders of trade unionists? If they are assassinations, how are those differentiated from other murders?

 

 

I was referring to the 17 trade union leaders that were assassinated this year.