Give Kenny Williams credit

[dasox24]

I think KW is a fantastic GM. You all have pretty much summed up my feeling towards him. He is in the upper-echelon of GM's. He has really done a great job of balancing the big spending with under the radar deals to make us competitive (and for years to come) without having to spend like Yanks or Red Sox. My only fault with him is the poor minor league system, but it seems like he has worked to correct that over the last year with new scouts and scouting philosophies, etc.

[witesoxfan]

I think KW is a fantastic GM. You all have pretty much summed up my feeling towards him. He is in the upper-echelon of GM's. He has really done a great job of balancing the big spending with under the radar deals to make us competitive (and for years to come) without having to spend like Yanks or Red Sox. My only fault with him is the poor minor league system, but it seems like he has worked to correct that over the last year with new scouts and scouting philosophies, etc.

 

I don't think it matters how good his minor league system really is. He seems willing to deal away any players he feels will net him the ultimate player he wants; honestly, before the season, who would have ever thought the Sox would have brought in Nick Swisher with the minor league talent he Sox had? Who had even the slightest idea that Swisher was available?

 

Ken Williams has done a fantastic job with talent evaluation. That, more than anything, is the most important factor I could ever ask for in a GM. Don't worry about value so long as you get the guys you know can get outs/prevent scoring runs or prevent the other defense from getting outs/preventing runs.

[joejoesox]

i remember in the offseason when alexei defected, there were a lot of people (in general) saying he was a project that needed time in the minors to adjust

 

during the game yesterday, Hawk made an interesting comment, saying Alexei is probably the most talented player on our entire roster.

 

he said he might not put up the numbers of the other guys but overall talent, he's probably our best player.

 

anyone else buy into that line of thought or do you think Hawk was making an misinformed comment? i found it interesting, i certainly can't argue that alexei isn't full of talent, the dude is just a damn good ball player

[Steve9347]

I saw KW macking on some 22 year olds on the club level of John Barleycorn of Schaumburg on Saturday night. I basically informed him of what he already knew: he's the ballsiest GM in the league, and is owed a lot of apologies right now.

[29andPoplar]

Interesting thread.

 

I don't think it's time for I-told-you-so's nor crow eating at this point. Here is my view though ...

 

This site has huge mood swings. A few losses and it's "this guy is done" and "trade this guy for anything you can get, just dump his conract". People seem to forget it's a long season and further, sometimes a team's makeup has to be viewed from an even longer lens, like 2 or even 3 years. No one wants to hear that in today's "I want it now" society but it's very true.

 

Williams gets credit for having patience and faith in his players. Many on this site wanted Crede traded this spring for a B prospect from San Francisco because they were so sure our 3B prospect would be better. Contreras? He should have been given away or dumped according to many here. There are a few more examples but the point has been made.

 

This guy Williams wants to win, he is the anti Ron Schueler who horded prospects that never panned out. He's always looking to add to the team and to make it better. He is far from perfect, says some dumb things from time to time and comes across the wrong way to some. I for one will take him as GM of my team.

 

This team will go through a slump this year and guess what, people will panic again and want guys dumped for nothing again. Whether this team makes the playoffs or not, it's far too soon to tell but the front office deserves credit for building a team that's in decent position as we sit here on June 9th.

[Steve9347]

I think we're more susceptible to panic because of how this team imploded last year with most of hte same players. The thing's we need to realize are not to panic, because we actually have a major league short stop and our outfield is much improved, and the most important thing is that our bullpen is good (and probably the best in baseball).

[thedoctor]

Interesting thread.

 

I don't think it's time for I-told-you-so's nor crow eating at this point. Here is my view though ...

 

This site has huge mood swings. A few losses and it's "this guy is done" and "trade this guy for anything you can get, just dump his conract". People seem to forget it's a long season and further, sometimes a team's makeup has to be viewed from an even longer lens, like 2 or even 3 years. No one wants to hear that in today's "I want it now" society but it's very true.

 

Williams gets credit for having patience and faith in his players. Many on this site wanted Crede traded this spring for a B prospect from San Francisco because they were so sure our 3B prospect would be better. Contreras? He should have been given away or dumped according to many here. There are a few more examples but the point has been made.

 

This guy Williams wants to win, he is the anti Ron Schueler who horded prospects that never panned out. He's always looking to add to the team and to make it better. He is far from perfect, says some dumb things from time to time and comes across the wrong way to some. I for one will take him as GM of my team.

 

This team will go through a slump this year and guess what, people will panic again and want guys dumped for nothing again. Whether this team makes the playoffs or not, it's far too soon to tell but the front office deserves credit for building a team that's in decent position as we sit here on June 9th.

 

very true.

 

i actually really liked the moves kenny made this offseason, but more for the future than this year. at the end of last year we looked like an old and slow team that had no good prospects on the way and could be set up for a long rebuilding period. but the moves that we made got us younger (we are still slow) and did set us up better for the next few seasons.

 

projecting forward, you can see a scenario where next year's team is really young and mostly locked up for a few years in terms of contract situations, particularly if thome's option is not picked up. losing either thome or paulie gives the roster an extra bit of flexibility we currently lack. i came into this year thinking that next year would be a year we could bounce back into playoff contention. i figured we'd lose cabrera, thome, and crede in the offseason but gain some financial flexibility that would allow us to fill what i thought would be a hole or two in the rotation.

 

of course what changed is that floyd, danks, and contreras have way outperformed my expectations and the expectations of most. i'll be curious to see how kw handles things going forward.

[WCSox]

Kenny proves once again that fans (including myself) for the most part don't know s***.

 

+1

 

As long as Kenny continues to tune out the fans in regards to running this team, I want him to be our GM for as long as he wants the job.

 

Not sure I'd go that far. Kenny's a mixed bag. The criticism of him letting the farm system go to crap is valid. That said, his record on trades and FA signings has been overwhelmingly outstanding. As somebody else in this thread mentioned, he's easily a Top 10 GM.

 

[29andPoplar]

I think we're more susceptible to panic because of how this team imploded last year with most of hte same players. The thing's we need to realize are not to panic, because we actually have a major league short stop and our outfield is much improved, and the most important thing is that our bullpen is good (and probably the best in baseball).

Steve, good points here.

 

One thing I believe this board will have to remember is about the hitting. It was extremely frustrating to watch these first two months. When your team is built for U.S. Cellular Field, you'll need power hitters, and the reality is power hitters are prone to slumps and not to make excuses but cold weather doesn't help either.

 

That said, pitching wins and it always will. The pitching was pretty good in April and March overall. If you can lean on pitching it will keep you in contention.

 

Last year the bullpen was the biggest problem but the offense stunk it up too. Several guys had down years and also we were playing guys like Andy Gonzalez who didn't belong in the big leagues. A good recipe for finishing 72-90.

 

While I am on a soapbox, one of my and a few others biggest frustrations (if that's the right word, maybe annoyance) is the judging of good veteran players after 6 weeks. There were a lot of "Orlando Cabrera sucks" posts and those wanting to retract the Swisher trade etc. etc. Now I'm being careful about saying this because those two players in particular are still not where they should be. But the dramatics and the generalization and the sarcasm about these guys was way too much. With a six game winning streak, everyone's happy but just watch, lose a few and these guys will suck again. To me that's overreactionary. It's not about eating crow or dishing out crow, it's more about realizing and understanding that it's a long season. Check the pitching, if it's doing at least ok, the team has a shot.

 

I fault Williams for two things. One, the team isn't quite balanced enough, there are too many plodders and they can still use at least one more high on base guy. Two, and I know I harp on this, but how long will it take until they can draft or acquire a legit leadoff hitter? Harder to do than say for sure, but this has been a problem for a few years.

 

My other concern is pitching depth, but I suppose that's a concern for 29 other teams too.

[chiguy79]

If Macdougal would have done what Linebrink is doing this year, which is what KW thought he was getting, last year would have been much better.

 

Nice having the offense produce for a few days to rest up the bullpen horses.

 

KW has done a nice job, lets keep it going and stay healthy. I think anyone predicting Crede/Contreras coming back this strong would be crazy, and even KW would probably admit that many players are exceeding his expectations for this year...but that is baseball.

[ptatc]

It seems the major criticism about KW is the farm system. The farm system only exists to make the major league club better. Whether that's by calling up players or trading them to acquire talent. We have young players for the near future at most positions with Swisher, Fields, Ramierez, Richar Quentin and the picthers. What do we need a stocked farm system for if we have young MLB talent. Players will sit in the minors. They are there for trade bait. As long as the MLB club has the talent the minors becomes an after thought. This comes from someone who watches the prospects as much as the MLB team.

[thedoctor]

It seems the major criticism about KW is the farm system. The farm system only exists to make the major league club better. Whether that's by calling up players or trading them to acquire talent. We have young players for the near future at most positions with Swisher, Fields, Ramierez, Richar Quentin and the picthers. What do we need a stocked farm system for if we have young MLB talent. Players will sit in the minors. They are there for trade bait. As long as the MLB club has the talent the minors becomes an after thought. This comes from someone who watches the prospects as much as the MLB team.

 

although i agree with the overall gist of this, i don't see a scenario where you shouldn't or couldn't have both. the sox pay a lot of money to a lot of people who have the specific job of scouting and acquiring young talent. failing in that regard should not be acceptable any more than you'd accept failure in other areas.

 

plus, even though we seem set at some positions you never know how things pan out with injuries, players not meeting expectations, etc. having a stocked minor-league system gives you the resources you need to either add a talented young player to the big club roster, or it gives you the firepower you need to acquire established players from other teams.

[WSoxMatt]

Id take Kenny and Ozzie anyday anytime...as far as Im concerned (and lets all be glad Imm not in charge), they can stay as long as they like!!!

[Balta1701]

i remember in the offseason when alexei defected, there were a lot of people (in general) saying he was a project that needed time in the minors to adjust

 

during the game yesterday, Hawk made an interesting comment, saying Alexei is probably the most talented player on our entire roster.

 

he said he might not put up the numbers of the other guys but overall talent, he's probably our best player.

 

anyone else buy into that line of thought or do you think Hawk was making an misinformed comment? i found it interesting, i certainly can't argue that alexei isn't full of talent, the dude is just a damn good ball player

Well...here's the thing...how do you define talent? Jim Thome is the most talented if you judge talent by how far he hits the ball and nothing else. Quentin right now seems to be our most talented overall player with the bat. But Alexei is solid with the bat and also is probably our best athlete I'd guess...seems to be both strong and very quick...Quentin couldn't outrun Alexei if his life depended on it.

[WCSox]

Well...here's the thing...how do you define talent? Jim Thome is the most talented if you judge talent by how far he hits the ball and nothing else. Quentin right now seems to be our most talented overall player with the bat. But Alexei is solid with the bat and also is probably our best athlete I'd guess...seems to be both strong and very quick...Quentin couldn't outrun Alexei if his life depended on it.

 

He might've meant that Alexei is the most talented ATHLETE on our team. I wouldn't argue with that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll become the next Hanley Ramirez.

 

[Balta1701]

He might've meant that Alexei is the most talented ATHLETE on our team. I wouldn't argue with that, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he'll become the next Hanley Ramirez.

But the nice thing is...it also might mean that.

[lostfan]

Well...here's the thing...how do you define talent? Jim Thome is the most talented if you judge talent by how far he hits the ball and nothing else. Quentin right now seems to be our most talented overall player with the bat. But Alexei is solid with the bat and also is probably our best athlete I'd guess...seems to be both strong and very quick...Quentin couldn't outrun Alexei if his life depended on it.

I define talent by the five tools and how good a player could be if he lived up to his max potential on all 5 (along with overall athletic ability). On the Sox that's probably either Brian Anderson or Alexei Ramirez. Note, potential and being a good baseball player are 2 different things. There are numerous cases of "talented" ballplayers completely flaming out or becoming marginal MLB players, or complete nobodies becoming solid All-Stars.

Edited June 9, 2008 by lostfan

[WCSox]

But the nice thing is...it also might mean that.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I define talent by the five tools and how good a player could be if he lived up to his max potential on all 5 (along with overall athletic ability). On the Sox that's probably either Brian Anderson or Alexei Ramirez. Note, potential and being a good baseball player are 2 different things. There are numerous cases of "talented" ballplayers completely flaming out or becoming marginal MLB players, or complete nobodies becoming solid All-Stars.

If you're talking all 5 tools...then I'd take Alexei even over B.A., because of the speed. BA might well win on defense, I like what BA's bringing to the table with the bat now but it's hard to argue with the numbers Alexei is putting up, but the speed certainly seems to go for the missile.

[StrangeSox]

He seemed to be talking about his baseball-intelligence a lot as well. Along the lines of knowing how to read and react to defensive setups, excellent base-running decisions, knowing what a pitcher/ defense is trying to do at the plate, etc.

[lostfan]

If you're talking all 5 tools...then I'd take Alexei even over B.A., because of the speed. BA might well win on defense, I like what BA's bringing to the table with the bat now but it's hard to argue with the numbers Alexei is putting up, but the speed certainly seems to go for the missile.

What Anderson lacks in speed he makes up for in power. Granted, Anderson has a fair amount of speed and Alexei has a fair amount of power, but while Alexei is plenty fast, he doesn't have 30-35 HR power that Anderson has (again, this is assuming Anderson was hitting to his full potential).

[iamshack]

Well...here's the thing...how do you define talent? Jim Thome is the most talented if you judge talent by how far he hits the ball and nothing else. Quentin right now seems to be our most talented overall player with the bat. But Alexei is solid with the bat and also is probably our best athlete I'd guess...seems to be both strong and very quick...Quentin couldn't outrun Alexei if his life depended on it.

 

I believe what Hawk said was that Alexei was the best "baseball player." Meaning he has the most talent in all the particular areas that make a good baseball player. Running, throwing with power and accuracy, hitting for contact and power, running to the ball, etc. Hawk qualified his statement by saying that there are other guys whose production was greater, but in terms of playing the game of baseball, Alexei is our best.

 

Now Hawk is obviously prone to some hyperbole from time to time (or all the time), but I think the statement is pretty right on. In terms of overall talent to play the game of baseball well in all of its facets, Alexei has the best tools to do so. Now he just has to continue adjusting to major league baseball and I think we will see his production continue to rise.

[103 mph screwball]

The criticism of him letting the farm system go to crap is valid. That said, his record on trades and FA signings has been overwhelmingly outstanding. As somebody else in this thread mentioned, he's easily a Top 10 GM.

 

I think part of the reason that the farm system looks so bare is because KW has made some impressive trades to get young major league talent on the roster. Our system has produced guys Young, Gio, Sweeney, McCarthy, and more. KW did not want to wait to put a playoff caliber team on the field so he traded those players for more developed players and pitching. We have had a farm. We traded them for Quentin, Vasquez, Thome, Floyd, and Danks. I think he gets too much criticism of the farm at times. Could it be better? Yes. I hope some of the recent changes help. I agree he is top ten and deserved executive of the year in 2005. Hopefully he will win it this year.

[DBAHO]

I think when you look at this team also over the past 5 seasons, the 1 thing the Sox have had when they have been very succesful, is a really good bullpen.

 

They had it in 2005, and knock on wood, they've got it right now.

 

That to me makes a huge difference when it's said and done for your overall record. I always said at the end of last season, if we had a decent pen, we could have been a .500 team, that's how bad MacDougal and Thornton were, and how many leads in the 7th/8th we blew last season.

 

KW recognized that, went out and got Dotel and Linebrink who have been fantastic so far, and you couldn't ask for anything more from them.

 

And sure he may have overpaid, but looking at the numbers, it's looking pretty good right now.

[WCSox]

I think part of the reason that the farm system looks so bare is because KW has made some impressive trades to get young major league talent on the roster. Our system has produced guys Young, Gio, Sweeney, McCarthy, and more. KW did not want to wait to put a playoff caliber team on the field so he traded those players for more developed players and pitching. We have had a farm. We traded them for Quentin, Vasquez, Thome, Floyd, and Danks. I think he gets too much criticism of the farm at times. Could it be better? Yes. I hope some of the recent changes help. I agree he is top ten and deserved executive of the year in 2005. Hopefully he will win it this year.

 

Outside of Young (and Sweeney so far), none of the guys that Kenny has dealt over the recent past have amounted to much. Agreed that the Sox have developed some good position players over the past 3-4 years, but just about all of their halfway decent pitching has been acquired from elsewhere.

 

That said, I agree that Kenny absolutely did the right thing in dealing good-but-not-great young players like Gio, Olivo, etc. for proven veteran talent. Even if the state of the farm system was his own fault, he made the best of the situation. The one thing that I absolutely couldn't stand about Ron Schueler was the way that he over-valued good-but-not-great players like James Baldwin and Mike Cameron. When the Sox were in the hunt for the Wild Card back in '96 and their window of opportunity was closing, he refused to deal any of his young talent, much to the ire of not only the fans, but his own players as well.

Edited June 9, 2008 by WCSox