whitesoxfan101 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 02:27 PM) because we all know 3 games defines whether you are a very good team or a laughably bad team. We're not laughably bad, but the notion that we are a good team is pretty laughable right now. People can make all the excuses they want, but Detroit has been mediocre/bad and asleep all year, and we woke them up in 3 days. You can't do that, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:29 PM) We're not laughably bad, but the notion that we are a good team is pretty laughable right now. People can make all the excuses they want, but Detroit has been mediocre/bad and asleep all year, and we woke them up in 3 days. You can't do that, period. How the hell do you know we woke them up!?! They haven't even played anymore games yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 03:27 PM) because we all know 3 games defines whether you are a very good team or a laughably bad team. At times, I find it difficult to tell which one the Sox are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 03:28 PM) It'd be much easier to take if we had struggled like this against them. To let Detroit back into the race with three just awful efforts from almost everybody outside of Mark Buehrle is inexcuseable. Even if we had won one out of three it'd have been no big deal, but we did the one thing we couldn't afford to, and that was get our ass swept. Contreras and Vazquez didn't have quality starts, but they battled. Contreras was a victim of Ozzie's poor managing, and Javy just got worked over by a lineup firing on all cylinders. It's not like they were off, and throwing wild. If they bring the same stuff against most other teams they're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:29 PM) We're not laughably bad, but the notion that we are a good team is pretty laughable right now. People can make all the excuses they want, but Detroit has been mediocre/bad and asleep all year, and we woke them up in 3 days. You can't do that, period. Firstly, and I'm not saying the Sox are a world-killer, but world series winning teams get swept by subpar teams at times during a 162-game schedule, particularly on the road. Secondly, Detroit is a talented team with essentially the same core that won an AL pennant two years ago and competed for the division last year. Is it more likely that they are a team that plays at the level they have played for the previous 60 games or the preceding 340 games? Lastly, we have been RED HOT against the Tigers in general, even last year when we were 72-90 we OWNED them, and we were due to get swept up there. If this losing streak hits 8, or they lose something like 15 of 20, then I'd be worried. For now, be thankful we had a little cushion. Even 100 game winning teams still lose 38% of their games.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (jphat007 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 02:31 PM) How the hell do you know we woke them up!?! They haven't even played anymore games yet! Rogers and Verlander have both been a lot better lately, and we did nothing to impede that progress for them. Although they are both overrated, Zumaya and Rodney are coming back soon. They blowtorched two of our better starting pitchers in this series, and then somehow won when the other one was great. Outside of when the atrocious Nate Robertson pitched, we did nothing on offense against a pitching staff that as a team has been lousy all year. Now, their pitching staff will still struggle since they don't get to face our hot and cold offense everyday, but this series has run starter and giant awakening written all over it. I hope I'm wrong, but if they don't make a run soon, aided in terms of it's start by this series, I'd be very, very surprised. Edited June 12, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 what's dissapointing here is the opportunity. detroit will be what... 8 games back now. the sox could have swept the tigers and buried them 14 games behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:22 PM) ozzie blew game 1....game 2 we just lost, thats gonna happen...and game 3 coulda gone either way....its a frustrating series, but for going on the road against a good team (i dont give a s*** what their record is, they are still a solid team) we coulda walked away with 2/3...frustrating to not come away with at least 1, but we didnt play as poorly as a sweep may suggest Robertson, Verlander, and Rogers have been terrible. I don't want to hear how Detroit is a solid team because they have horrible pitching. We couldn't do s*** against them. We played that poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:38 PM) Rogers and Verlander have both been a lot better lately, and we did nothing to impede that progress for them. Although they are both overrated, Zumaya and Rodney are coming back soon. They blowtorched two of our better starting pitchers in this series, and then somehow won when the other one was great. Outside of when the atrocious Nate Robertson pitched, we did nothing on offense against a pitching staff that as a team has been lousy all year. Now, their pitching staff will still struggle since they don't get to face our hot and cold offense everyday, but this series has run starter and giant awakening written all over it. I hope I'm wrong, but if they don't make a run soon, aided in terms of it's start by this series, I'd be very, very surprised. Of course they'll make a run. Everybody makes a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) Robertson, Verlander, and Rogers have been terrible. I don't want to hear how Detroit is a solid team because they have horrible pitching. We couldn't do s*** against them. We played that poorly. Verlander is not a horrible pitcher. Only against us usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 02:37 PM) Firstly, and I'm not saying the Sox are a world-killer, but world series winning teams get swept by subpar teams at times during a 162-game schedule, particularly on the road. Secondly, Detroit is a talented team with essentially the same core that won an AL pennant two years ago and competed for the division last year. Is it more likely that they are a team that plays at the level they have played for the previous 60 games or the preceding 340 games? Lastly, we have been RED HOT against the Tigers in general, even last year when we were 72-90 we OWNED them, and we were due to get swept up there. If this losing streak hits 8, or they lose something like 15 of 20, then I'd be worried. For now, be thankful we had a little cushion. Even 100 game winning teams still lose 38% of their games.... Realistically, I'm aware this is all very accurate. But the timing of this couldn't have been worse, in regards to both how we had been playing coming in and the fact that we had a shot to bury them, or at least continue their path of mediocrity. We just made things incredibly difficult on ourselves the rest of the way the last 3 days. We are still the favorites to win this division and I know that, but there is a good chance it will be a lot more difficult now. The Sox just never make things easy on themselves and that is hard to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 12:29 PM) ok well if you throw out dotels first outing of the year.... he came into the game with 1.86 ERA in 29 IP, 20 H, 13 BB, and 41Ks, good for the best K:IP ratio in the majors...he has been fantastic...dont forget linebrink gave up a walk off HR a week and a half ago too Dotel has given up 7 earned runs and 2 homers since his first outing. That's good, but far from lights-out. Linebrink's WHIP is also much lower. Look, I'm not saying that Dotel is trash or anything, but there's a reason that he's not a closer or a setup man. He struggles to hit 92 on the gun and his offspeed stuff is average at best. If you want to shut down the opposition late in a game, you go with Linebrink or Jenks. Dotel's a nice guy to have around for the 7th inning, but he's not the stud that you're making him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:40 PM) Verlander is not a horrible pitcher. Only against us usually. What was his ERA and WHIP coming into the game? He's been having a really bad season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 I'm thinking of a certain four game sweep at Cleveland in July 2005, coming off the all star break, to extend a division lead to 15, and how that really finished them off... Season's long guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 03:42 PM) What was his ERA and WHIP coming into the game? He's been having a really bad season. Irrelevant - Verlander is a legit ace, and when he struggles, you shouldn't expect it to continue. He obviously had a different game plan against us this time, he stuck to it, and it worked (as evidenced by all the popups). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock4Life Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 sucks getting swept, but no way am i worried we woke up the tigers. look at how we came out after crushing the twinkies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 01:43 PM) Irrelevant - Verlander is a legit ace, and when he struggles, you shouldn't expect it to continue. He obviously had a different game plan against us this time, he stuck to it, and it worked (as evidenced by all the popups). Sorry, you lost me at irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) The Verlander game wasn't really the problem, he was long overdue to actually have a good game against us. Our mindless, sloppy effort on Tuesday and the fact we wasted Mark's performance today are the bigger issues. If we just win one of those it's no big deal, and if we win both it's great, but to find a way to lose each game and thus get swept is killer. Edited June 12, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 03:45 PM) Sorry, you lost me at irrelevant. k. 5 of his last 6 starts are all quality starts. Like I said. Irrelevant. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant though, especially when the logic doesn't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 A bad team? LOL'ers. The Sox are not among the top few teams in baseball, but to say they are a bad team is just ridiculous. They're 5-ish games into first, 8 games over .500 and have up until this series killed their division. They have the best ERA in baseball and an offense that is middle-of-the-pack. Bad team? Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 food for thought... before this series we were 19-6 in the previous 25 21-7 vs. the central division and 28-15 in our previous 43 against detroit - going back through 2006 can anyone say untenable statistical anomaly EXPLO-SHUN with those stats in mind, the expected value of this series was 1 win and 2 losses. At best, I thought it might be 2 wins and 1 loss, but I thought 1-2 was way more realistic is anyone honestly saying that because we performed 1 game worse than the expected value that the outlook suddenly drastically changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Dotel seems like a bit of a head case. He's dominant when he comes in the game in a bit of a jam, and he gets shelled when he starts a fresh inning. Linebrink seems to be the complete opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False Alarm Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 07:51 PM) food for thought... before this series we were 19-6 in the previous 25 21-7 vs. the central division and 28-15 in our previous 43 against detroit - going back through 2006 can anyone say untenable statistical anomaly EXPLO-SHUN with those stats in mind, the expected value of this series was 1 win and 2 losses. At best, I thought it might be 2 wins and 1 loss, but I thought 1-2 was way more realistic is anyone honestly saying that because we performed 1 game worse than the expected value that the outlook suddenly drastically changes? nice avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 02:51 PM) A bad team? LOL'ers. The Sox are not among the top few teams in baseball, but to say they are a bad team is just ridiculous. They're 5-ish games into first, 8 games over .500 and have up until this series killed their division. They have the best ERA in baseball and an offense that is middle-of-the-pack. Bad team? Please. They lay more eggs than any "good" team I've ever seen. They are as bi-polar/hot and cold as any division leader you'll ever see as well, that's for sure. They almost feel like the early 2000's Sox, only they find a way to waste dozens of great pitching outings instead of great offensive performances, and it's frusterating as hell and could cause them a similar fate as those teams at the end of the day. Edited June 12, 2008 by whitesoxfan101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoarow Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Jun 12, 2008 -> 08:38 PM) what's dissapointing here is the opportunity. detroit will be what... 8 games back now. the sox could have swept the tigers and buried them 14 games behind. yes because we should be expected to sweep every team on the ROAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.