Our excuse for this loss

[BobDylan]

Here is a video: Cabrera Homer -- Fair or Foul?

(I don't know how to embed .swf files, so I apologize you have to go through the link. And unfortunately, it's not HD quality.)

 

Pay special attention to the second half of the video, the replay portion. Watch the ball. If it were to hit anything behind the foul pole, especially that wooden beam behind it, the ball would disappear behind the pole for a moment, then reappear. The ball does not disappear at all.

 

Here are several images, in sequence.

(I highlighted the ball in red boxes because the ball is difficult to find. And now that I look at it, the red boxes I made are a little hard to find, hah.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And as you can see, the ball changes direction through those images.

 

---------------------------

 

In the first half of the video, I have less evident pictures where it was difficult to find the baseball, but one of which is connecting off of the foul pole. The first image the ball is right on the pole. The second image, the ball has bounced off the pole.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2008 by BobDylan

[quickman]

Did they ever show a replay of the swing??? I don't think WGN ever showed it and I was pissed...

 

yes its in the same video as the link above just go to the ninth inning and they (WGN )showed the replay. The cub announcers just said you be the judge. He clearly clealy did not go. I was sitting in the third row of the CBOE seats to the left of the cub dugout. People could see the swing from there and the UMP was directly in front of us. He heard it from the sox fans pretty damn good and the cub fans couldn't beleive the crap call either. On a separate note, Cox was great with teh fans down there. Excellent interaction with people.

[jackie hayes]

yes its in the same video as the link above just go to the ninth inning and they (WGN )showed the replay. The cub announcers just said you be the judge. He clearly clealy did not go. I was sitting in the third row of the CBOE seats to the left of the cub dugout. People could see the swing from there and the UMP was directly in front of us. He heard it from the sox fans pretty damn good and the cub fans couldn't beleive the crap call either. On a separate note, Cox was great with teh fans down there. Excellent interaction with people.

The Cubs announcers were on Comcast, not WGN. WGN did not show a replay. Why, I have no idea.

[the People's Champ]

yes its in the same video as the link above just go to the ninth inning and they (WGN )showed the replay. The cub announcers just said you be the judge. He clearly clealy did not go. I was sitting in the third row of the CBOE seats to the left of the cub dugout. People could see the swing from there and the UMP was directly in front of us. He heard it from the sox fans pretty damn good and the cub fans couldn't beleive the crap call either. On a separate note, Cox was great with teh fans down there. Excellent interaction with people.

Doesn't matter if he went or not the home plate ump blew the initial call. That was a good strike and AJ should have been rung up to begin with.

[whitesoxfan101]

Doesn't matter if he went or not the home plate ump blew the initial call. That was a good strike and AJ should have been rung up to begin with.

 

This is incredibly wrong logic. The 3rd base umpires job there is to say whether or not A.J. swung, not whether the pitch was a strike. I almost think he called strike because he thought the home plate umpire missed the pitch, in which case he was completely wrong. The only job the 3rd base umpire has there is to say whether or not A.J. swung, and he clearly didn't, so that's a badly missed call.

[the People's Champ]

This is incredibly wrong logic. The 3rd base umpires job there is to say whether or not A.J. swung, not whether the pitch was a strike. I almost think he called strike because he thought the home plate umpire missed the pitch, in which case he was completely wrong. The only job the 3rd base umpire has there is to say whether or not A.J. swung, and he clearly didn't, so that's a badly missed call.

None of this matters!! All everyone is doing is making nitpicky excuses as to why the Sox lost this game. None of these plays caused them to lose the game. Their complete lack of fundamentals caused them to lose the game.

 

Inability to advance runners

BA not stretching the 2B into a 3B when he should have

Thome failing to drive in an important run

Crede GIDP with the leadoff man on

multiple runners left on base

 

these are LEGITIMATE reasons for losing the game, not a missed call down the line, or a phantom strike out.

You want to talk about logic where's the logic in not owning up to the fact that the Sox plain threw up all over themselves in this game, like we've seen them do in plenty games this year.

[whitesoxfan101]

None of this matters!! All everyone is doing is making nitpicky excuses as to why the Sox lost this game. None of these plays caused them to lose the game. Their complete lack of fundamentals caused them to lose the game.

 

Inability to advance runners

BA not stretching the 2B into a 3B when he should have

Thome failing to drive in an important run

Crede GIDP with the leadoff man on

multiple runners left on base

 

these are LEGITIMATE reasons for losing the game, not a missed call down the line, or a phantom strike out.

You want to talk about logic where's the logic in not owning up to the fact that the Sox plain threw up all over themselves in this game, like we've seen them do in plenty games this year.

 

Well I agree with all this. We lost because of ourselves. Rough way to lose a game when it has nothing to do with what the other team did, but instead entirely because of your own lack of execution.

[BobDylan]

I still don't understand why nobody has acknowledged that Cabrera's foul ball was a home run. People here are ignoring it. The media is ignoring it. The White Sox are ignoring it. They should have a 5-4 lead after Aramis' home run.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I still don't understand why nobody has acknowledged that Cabrera's foul ball was a home run. People here are ignoring it. The media is ignoring it. The White Sox are ignoring it. They should have a 5-4 lead after Aramis' home run.

 

Yeah really. The ONLY thing I have heard on it from any media is out of DJs mouth during todays pregame. He said "and whether Cabrera's HR actually hit the foul pole". Thats all thats been said. If this was switched teams, there would be these pictures running in newspapers of how the Sox "stole" a win.

[the People's Champ]

Well I agree with all this. We lost because of ourselves. Rough way to lose a game when it has nothing to do with what the other team did, but instead entirely because of your own lack of execution.

Don't get me wrong, I too was upset with the call by the ump at 3B, I didn't feel AJ went around. But then I went back and looked at the pitch again and thought to myself, "why the hell is he even taking that pitch with 2 strikes?" He has to offer at it. I remember back in pee-wee league coaches saying a swinging strike out is far better than leaving the bat on your shoulder.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I dont think it hit it....it was the camera angle...WGN was horrible all day long....

Hawk and DJ just showed the replay again with a live picture of the pole. The ball never went behind the pole, which means it would have had to have bounced off something just to the left of the pole, but there is nothing there to bounce off of. It looks like it pretty clearly hit a bracket and bounced off the pole. Home run!

Edited June 21, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[IlliniKrush]

It wasn't a home run, it's a really poor angle they have. I rewatched the normal angle and slowed it down, and it didn't hit near it. And you could see on that replay they showed that it didn't hit the foul pole anywhere.

 

If it was even close, don't you think there would have been any sort of argument?

 

Whole Sox bench has the same angle.

[HuskyCaucasian]

It wasn't a home run, it's a really poor angle they have. I rewatched the normal angle and slowed it down, and it didn't hit near it. And you could see on that replay they showed that it didn't hit the foul pole anywhere.

 

If it was even close, don't you think there would have been any sort of argument?

 

Whole Sox bench has the same angle.

it hit the bracket. you ant see the bracket because the image is blurry and not well defined. But if you compare the impact point to the pole, it hit the bracket.

[BobDylan]

It wasn't a home run, it's a really poor angle they have. I rewatched the normal angle and slowed it down, and it didn't hit near it. And you could see on that replay they showed that it didn't hit the foul pole anywhere.

 

If it was even close, don't you think there would have been any sort of argument?

 

Whole Sox bench has the same angle.

 

It certainly didn't hit the post behind it. If it didn't hit that, what did it hit? Also, Hawk and DJ seem to now agree that it hit the pole.

[The Beast]

actually I was more upset with the punchout of AJ's check swing in the ninth. not even close.

IIRC that pitch was close to the zone so either way it wasn't just the swing that could have called him out. Either way, the Sox are playing like s*** right now and I can't watch this garbage. Hopefully Buehrle has a good outing tomorrow night.

 

I do have one question though, what are the dimensions at Wrigley compared to USCF?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It wasn't a home run, it's a really poor angle they have. I rewatched the normal angle and slowed it down, and it didn't hit near it. And you could see on that replay they showed that it didn't hit the foul pole anywhere.

 

If it was even close, don't you think there would have been any sort of argument?

 

Whole Sox bench has the same angle.

 

That first angle is a bad angle, you cant see the ball flush with the pole. The 2nd angle is a great one because you can see it clearly knick off the pole. I dont see the confusion here. Now as to why no one on the bench argued it is because it took us slow-mo replay and a bunch of angles to conclude this. I doubt they all saw it well enough to argue with the umps.

[daa84]

hits the foul pole first...deflects slightly and then hits whatever it was behind it and bounced back toward the field...HR no doubt in my mind

[Flash Tizzle]

This incident doesn't relate, at all, but I remember during the World Series when one of the Houston hitters (Mike Lamb?) was credited for a HR in Houston. However, upon viewing the instant replay, the ball was below the homerun barrier. Not much was made out of it; no controversy developed. Yet for everything that happened to us and umpires during the playoffs, the one play that directly resulted in runs crossing the board was ignored.

 

I honestly believe Cabrera's ball was a home run as well, but I wouldn't use it as an excuse. We had other opportunities.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[BobDylan]

I honestly believe Cabrera's ball was a home run as well, but I wouldn't use it as an excuse. We had other opportunities.

 

Absolutely, but it still pisses me off. After Dotel's lapse, the Cubs would see Jenks in the 9th, not Linebrink. And I'd feel a lot better about today if they won yesterday.

Edited June 21, 2008 by BobDylan

[elrockinMT]

Oh my god those are announcers are unbearable and I only listened for ten seconds. "The way Cabrera reacted...blahblah". You mean like he thought it was a foul ball, you idiot? This coming from the Cubs, who has Aram sit at the plate for twenty minutes after he hits his.

 

 

The Cubs announcers suck, but they aren't as bad as Tampa Bays

Edited June 22, 2008 by elrockinMT

[elrockinMT]

hits the foul pole first...deflects slightly and then hits whatever it was behind it and bounced back toward the field...HR no doubt in my mind

 

 

No. It missed the foul pole and hit something behind it in foul territory

[BobDylan]

No. It missed the foul pole and hit something behind it in foul territory

 

If that's your reasoning for it coming back onto the field, well, it's obvious in the replay that it bounces off the people in the stands back onto the field.

 

I don't know how you can say that so confidently with all the pictures already in this thread, plus Hawk and DJ talking about it today.

 

I also don't know why I care anymore.

Edited June 22, 2008 by BobDylan

[HuskyCaucasian]

No. It missed the foul pole and hit something behind it in foul territory

there is nothing behind it to hit! DJ pulled out his binoculars and looked at the foul poll. There is nothing there. If it deflected, it deflected off the foul pole.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

This incident doesn't relate, at all, but I remember during the World Series when one of the Houston hitters (Mike Lamb?) was credited for a HR in Houston. However, upon viewing the instant replay, the ball was below the homerun barrier. Not much was made out of it; no controversy developed. Yet for everything that happened to us and umpires during the playoffs, the one play that directly resulted in runs crossing the board was ignored.

 

I honestly believe Cabrera's ball was a home run as well, but I wouldn't use it as an excuse. We had other opportunities.

 

I remember exactly that HR. I had arguements with people who said "The umps gave the Sox the WS". I tried point out that the 2 plays that went our way did not directly score runs, but the insuing plays did. That HR DIRECTLY led to runs. The ball was below that line by a foot, and ruled a HR. No media brought that one to light either.

[chw42]

I remember exactly that HR. I had arguements with people who said "The umps gave the Sox the WS". I tried point out that the 2 plays that went our way did not directly score runs, but the insuing plays did. That HR DIRECTLY led to runs. The ball was below that line by a foot, and ruled a HR. No media brought that one to light either.

 

It was Jason Lane actually.