White Sox Loser

[StrangeSox]

Javy and JC are struggling right now. I'm not very confident in Contreras but I'll bet that Javy finishes with an era under 4 this year. He's had 4 below average starts in a row now but none of them were horrible, it's not like he got absolutely crushed. He'll be fine

 

5 runs in 5 innings is pretty horrible.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

5 runs in 5 innings is pretty horrible.

 

 

Not the way it was done. He wasnt throwing strikes at a clip you'd like to see but the Cubs had a couple cheap hits (see Theriot) and the two HRs hit off him were good pitches. Patterson hit a pitch that was probably a ball inside and the pitch to Ramirez was at his shins. Vazquez wasn't good, but he wasnt atrocious either. Sometimes you have to give a litte credit to the hitters as well.

[fathom]

Not the way it was done. He wasnt throwing strikes at a clip you'd like to see but the Cubs had a couple cheap hits (see Theriot) and the two HRs hit off him were good pitches. Patterson hit a pitch that was probably a ball inside and the pitch to Ramirez was at his shins. Vazquez wasn't good, but he wasnt atrocious either. Sometimes you have to give a litte credit to the hitters as well.

 

The cheap hits had nothing to do with the runs he allowed. His first inning was inexcusable, and then he hit the leadoff hitter on a 1-2 pitch, and the homer to Aramis was on a hanger.

[LVSoxFan]

Sorry, but that crashing sound you hear is the Sox coming back to Earth. All the Cubs did was expose our glaring weaknesses, which have been there since opening day but tend to be forgotten when we get hot. And that's the point: when we get hot, which is totally unpredictable at this point. And a big problem.

 

Having been to the last two in person (so this is what it felt like to be at Dealey Plaza!) I knew going in last night that we were dead meat, even if Javy was pitching.

 

Face it:

 

-We're old and slow

-We have no base-stealing capability save for the AAA centerfielder we brought up (like him!)

-We can't situationally hit to save our freakin lives

-We strand countless runners on base; our percentage with men on base and no outs is atrocious

-We suck on the road

 

Our pitching has been good so far, but that's bound to fall off and who's going to pick up the slack when that happens?

 

The Cubs put the dagger in Friday with walk off, twisted it with a blowout on Saturday, and then disembowled us last night with a complete domination. We look pathetic compared to them.

 

The thing that's particularly painful about this year and last is regardless of standings, or how bad we or they are, it always tended to be a series that could go either way. Not since 2007, though. They have won 8 of the last NINE. And that hurts more than anything.

 

I would suspect that this will be the turning point for us, and not in a good way. But we all knew this was coming. Seriously, did you really harbor any delusions about us going somewhere this year? With this team? I'm surprised we've been in first this long. And that's the other hard part: Minny's now awake and due to overtake us, and the sleeping Tigers finally woke up.

 

The Cubs look like champions and we look like the Other Team in a Globetrotters game. Granted, at some point The Curse will kick in and deny them what they want so badly.

 

The only highlight all weekend for me was AJ actually throwing out a base stealer. I couldn't believe it.

 

BTW Cubs fans in general? More obnoxious this year than I have ever seen. I hung with some cool ones but the a-hole meter was redlining; I almost got in at least one fight.

[chw42]

Looking at this Dodgers series, I think we should tinker the pitching staff a little bit.

 

Contreras had probably the worst outing of his career vs. the Cubs on Saturday, why let him face them again? As the rotation stands right now. Buehrle pitches on Tuesday. Floyd on Wednesday, and Danks on Thursday. I'm thinking we should pitch Contreras on Thursday because of the day off today. Contreras would face a non-potent Dodgers offense and Danks will once again pitch against the Cubs. Hopefully, Ozzie leaves him in longer this time.

 

Just my 2 cents, Contreras could be dominant on Friday, but I'd like to see Danks in there instead.

Edited June 23, 2008 by chw42

[Harry Chappas]

Looking at this Dodgers series, I think we should tinker the pitching staff a little bit.

 

Contreras had probably the worst outing of his career vs. the Cubs on Saturday, why let him face them again? As the rotation stands right now. Buehrle pitches on Tuesday. Floyd on Wednesday, and Danks on Thursday. I'm thinking we should pitch Contreras on Thursday because of the day off today. Contreras would face a non-potent Dodgers offense and Danks will once again pitch against the Cubs. Hopefully, Ozzie leaves him in longer this time.

 

Just my 2 cents, Contreras could be dominant on Friday, but I'd like to see Danks in there instead.

 

I agree 100%. It makes to much sense to actually do though.

[whitesoxbrian]

I'd love to see us set the rotation like this:

 

Buehrle

Massett

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

This way, Javy can get a break. He looked really fatigued yesterday for whatever reason- Danks can pitch against the Cubs again and hopefully pitch similarly to what he did Friday, Floyd can pitch the 2nd game- I put him here because I would really like to see him throw against the Cubs and watch them attempt to hit that nasty breaking ball he's got, and then Buehrle can face the Cubs, which is what he's scheduled to do on Sunday anyways.

[knightni]

I'd love to see us set the rotation like this:

 

Buehrle

Massett

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

This way, Javy can get a break.

 

 

Seriously, step away from the keyboard.

[whitesoxbrian]

Seriously, step away from the keyboard.

I didn't mean it like Massett would take over for the rest of the year- just one start for Javy. If he really is tired like many on this board pointed out in the game-thread last night, he might be able to use a missed start.

[the People's Champ]

I'd love to see us set the rotation like this:

 

Buehrle

Massett

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

This way, Javy can get a break. He looked really fatigued yesterday for whatever reason- Danks can pitch against the Cubs again and hopefully pitch similarly to what he did Friday, Floyd can pitch the 2nd game- I put him here because I would really like to see him throw against the Cubs and watch them attempt to hit that nasty breaking ball he's got, and then Buehrle can face the Cubs, which is what he's scheduled to do on Sunday anyways.

 

Yeah, that'll happen. Switch the WHOLE rotation just to beat the Cubs.

[witesoxfan]

I'd love to see us set the rotation like this:

 

Buehrle

Massett

Contreras

Danks

Floyd

 

This way, Javy can get a break. He looked really fatigued yesterday for whatever reason- Danks can pitch against the Cubs again and hopefully pitch similarly to what he did Friday, Floyd can pitch the 2nd game- I put him here because I would really like to see him throw against the Cubs and watch them attempt to hit that nasty breaking ball he's got, and then Buehrle can face the Cubs, which is what he's scheduled to do on Sunday anyways.

 

I just puked in my mouth.

 

Javier Vazquez is the White Sox best pitcher, and you want to give him a break. Do you want to give Carlos Quentin a break from the lineup right now and sit him down for a week or two too just because he's struggled a bit?

[Pants Rowland]

Seriously, step away from the keyboard.

 

Leave the guy alone. He has made the 40 man roster in less than a month despite taking abuse from so many. His resolve reminds me of that character in Million Dollar Baby, Danger Barch. Ain't nothing gonna knock him out for good.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Javy is part of why this rotation has been doing what it's been doing. Lately, he's seemed a little like the Javy of '06 rather than '07, and in turn our rotation has turned in performances unlike any others they have this year. I'm not looking at any info/stats, but IIRC Floyd hasn't been his '08 self for at least two starts (2 out error or not), same with Contreras, and Danks was fine Friday, but the start before that he wasn't. Buehrle has in turn picked it up. Probably nothing to get worried about yet, but it needs to stop. The lambs we call "offense" require lights out pitching at all times.

 

The reason for his fatigue yesterday? Eric Patterson was a pain in his ass. Eric Patterson will probably drop off the face of the world in about a week, but his game was Podsednik-esque this past weekend. It made me wish we had a legit base-stealer.

[witesoxfan]

Javy is part of why this rotation has been doing what it's been doing. Lately, he's seemed a little like the Javy of '06 rather than '07, and in turn our rotation has turned in performances unlike any others they have this year. I'm not looking at any info/stats, but IIRC Floyd hasn't been his '08 self for at least two starts (2 out error or not), same with Contreras, and Danks was fine Friday, but the start before that he wasn't. Buehrle has in turn picked it up. Probably nothing to get worried about yet, but it needs to stop. The lambs we call "offense" require lights out pitching at all times.

 

The reason for his fatigue yesterday? Eric Patterson was a pain in his ass. Eric Patterson will probably drop off the face of the world in about a week, but his game was Podsednik-esque this past weekend. It made me wish we had a legit base-stealer.

 

Eric Patterson is actually Corey Patterson's brother and he's a pretty good prospect for the Cubs. I don't think he's going to drop off the face of the world completely, though from the Cubs 2008 roster is a possibility.

 

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Yeah that's what I meant. He's sure as hell not gonna be Ricky to the point where you're damned if you pitch to him, and damned if you don't.

[soxfan3530]

i think im going to keep away from this board until we win a game.

[DBAHO]

Vazquez had something like a 6.92 ERA this month in 4 starts IIRC.

 

I'm just hoping it's him going through one of those periods where he struggles, and it's not something else.

 

Because the guy has been an absolute workhorse over the past 5 seasons or so, and he would have thrown over 1000IP up to that point, and we've seen first hand how that type of workload can hurt a pitcher at certain points like it did with Mark Buehrle in 2006.

 

 

[Frankensteiner]

I just puked in my mouth.

 

Javier Vazquez is the White Sox best pitcher, and you want to give him a break. Do you want to give Carlos Quentin a break from the lineup right now and sit him down for a week or two too just because he's struggled a bit?

 

In what world is Vazquez the White Sox best pitcher? He might be the worst starter on the Sox right now.

[DBAHO]

He was last season, and for the 1st 2 months he was sort of flying under the radar due to Danks' and Floyd's emergences, had an ERA around 3.5 IIRC.

 

But this month MB has improved while JV has gone backwards.

 

I've got faith that Javy will turn it around though.

[Frankensteiner]

I know he was good last season, but if we're counting this season, he's been an average to below average pitcher 4 out of the last 5 years. How in the world is he get labeled as our ace?

 

He's neither the best based on current performance nor is he the best based on past performance.

 

WIth that said, I think he'll be good enough the rest of the year, and there's no way I'd rather have Masset. But Vazquez is a #3 or #2 (at best) starter.

[Rowand44]

I know he was good last season, but if we're counting this season, he's been an average to below average pitcher 4 out of the last 5 years. How in the world is he get labeled as our ace?

Even with his recent struggles he has a 4.24 era and a better than 3-1 k to bb ratio. In the American League, that's well above average.

[Frankensteiner]

Even with his recent struggles he has a 4.24 era and a better than 3-1 k to bb ratio. In the American League, that's well above average.

 

He's also been giving up extra base hits like they're candy. His OPS against is the highest of his career outside of his rookie season.

 

His K/BB ratio was the same in '06, and even better in '05. Didn't help Vazquez much in those years. It's nothing to get excited about and, if anything, just shows that Vazquez is a perennial underachiever.

[greg775]

What's with the love for Masset?

The guy I saw gave up a run in two innings vs. the Cubs or was it less than 2 innings and

he pitched awful to his last two batters, steering the ball outside like he was scared.

Yuk on Masset. Go Javy.

[whitesoxbrian]

Leave the guy alone. He has made the 40 man roster in less than a month despite taking abuse from so many. His resolve reminds me of that character in Million Dollar Baby, Danger Barch. Ain't nothing gonna knock him out for good.

I have?

 

Honestly, like I told Tony, I'm usually in umpire school at this time, but we're out for the summer, and now I'm just trying to follow the team as much as possible. With so much time currently on my hands, like I said, I'm trying to follow the team way more.

[Pants Rowland]

I have?

 

Honestly, like I told Tony, I'm usually in umpire school at this time, but we're out for the summer, and now I'm just trying to follow the team as much as possible. With so much time currently on my hands, like I said, I'm trying to follow the team way more.

 

I seem to recall more than a couple posts trying to deter you from posting so often and starting so many thread but I may be mistaken. To your credit you do not let it deter you.