How Can a "Fellow Black Republican" Oppose Obama?

[Controlled Chaos]

How Can a "Fellow Black Republican" Oppose Obama?

Larry Elder

Thursday, June 26, 2008

 

Mr. Elder,

 

I am shocked that you oppose Barack Obama and belong to the Republican Party. We must get over ourselves and realize there is room at the top for everyone and we must get there by helping each other -- instead of agreeing with policies and old politics that are proven not to work.

 

To endorse John McCain, a person who will not make it easier for the underprivileged, is just too much. How can a fellow black American feel this way?

 

Your Former Supporter

 

Dear Former Supporter,

 

Do you have any Republican friends, let alone black ones? If so, how many of them want to make it harder "for the underprivileged"?

 

You also might want to familiarize yourself with the history of the Democratic and Republican parties, and see which party has stood up longer for the rights of people of color. Do you know that Democrats opposed the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to the Constitution -- abolishing slavery, granting citizenship rights to newly freed slaves, and guaranteeing the right to vote (at least on paper) to blacks, respectively? Do you know that most of the politicians who stood for segregation were Southern Democrats? Do you know that the Ku Klux Klan was founded by Democrats, one of whose goals was to stop the spread of the Republican Party? Do you know that, as a percentage of the party, more Republicans than Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

 

Do you know that inner-city parents want vouchers -- the right to determine where their children go to school? Do you know most Democrats, including Barack Obama, oppose this? Republicans, for the most part, support vouchers. Where vouchers have been tried, kids appear to perform better, with higher parental satisfaction. You tell me, how many things are more important than a child's education?

 

Do you know that 36 percent of babies aborted are black, while blacks make up 17 percent of live births? Do you know that polls show blacks are more pro-life than are whites? Yet the Democratic Party -- to which over 90 percent of blacks belong -- is the party of Roe v. Wade, requiring states to legalize abortion on demand. Do you know that Margaret Sanger, the founder of the organization that became Planned Parenthood, believed that poor blacks were inferior and that aborting their babies made our society better? Look it up.

 

Do you know that blacks stand to benefit more than whites through Social Security privatization, a position opposed by Obama but supported by McCain? Are you even familiar with the issue and what a powerful income-generating vehicle it would be for blacks? If not, take a look at the research done by the libertarian think tank Cato Institute and the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation.

 

Porous borders enable illegal aliens to enter our country and threaten the jobs and lower the wages of Americans, many of whom are unskilled people of color. Which party is more determined to deal with this -- Republicans or Democrats? Obama called the foes of the House anti-illegal immigration bill "ugly and racist." I did not support the bill, but vehemently object to characterizing those who did as "ugly and racist."

 

You speak of policies that have "proven not to work." What about the "war on poverty" that began in the '60s, the policies that Obama and his party want to continue and expand? Do you know that today 70 percent of black children and over 50 percent of Hispanics are born outside of wedlock? The welfare state -- which Democrats want to expand -- has played a huge role in discouraging marriage and destabilizing families.

 

Speaking of helping the "underprivileged," I'd suggest you read a book called "Who Really Cares," by Arthur C. Brooks. A non-Republican professor raised by Democrats, he examined the charitable spending habits of Democrats and Republicans. The results surprised him. Brooks found that Republicans give far more of their money and time for charitable purposes than do Democrats. And the giving is not confined to their churches or other houses of worship. This, by the way, has nothing to do with income. Poor Republicans give more than poor Democrats.

 

Compassion is not about making people dependent on government. Compassion is about encouraging personal responsibility, and getting people to understand that life is about making choices. Poverty does not cause crime. Crime causes poverty. Poverty does not cause a child to have a child. A child having a child causes poverty. Finishing high school is a choice. Not joining a gang is a choice. Not having a child until you have the maturity and the means to raise that child is a choice.

 

You ask how can a "fellow black American feel this way"? Quite a statement. You may disagree, but it doesn't make me less caring and compassionate than you are. I'm sure you truly consider yourself open-minded and tolerant. But based on your letter, tolerance ends -- especially with "fellow black Americans" -- if someone has an opposing point of view.

 

Larry

 

 

[BigSqwert]

You also might want to familiarize yourself with the history of the Democratic and Republican parties, and see which party has stood up longer for the rights of people of color. Do you know that Democrats opposed the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments to the Constitution -- abolishing slavery, granting citizenship rights to newly freed slaves, and guaranteeing the right to vote (at least on paper) to blacks, respectively? Do you know that most of the politicians who stood for segregation were Southern Democrats? Do you know that the Ku Klux Klan was founded by Democrats, one of whose goals was to stop the spread of the Republican Party? Do you know that, as a percentage of the party, more Republicans than Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Excellent reasons to vote republican in the year 2008.

[kapkomet]

Excellent reasons to vote republican in the year 2008.

For a party who likes to play the race card, it's pretty relevant even today. It shouldn't be, but it is.

[BigSqwert]

For a party who likes to play the race card, it's pretty relevant even today. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Relevant to whom? The Republican party is 95% white. If it mattered to minorities then why aren't they jumping over to the GOP?

[kapkomet]

Relevant to whom? The Republican party is 95% white. If it mattered to minorities then why aren't they jumping over to the GOP?

You really want me to get into that? I call it brainwashing, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Now, on that point, I don't think it's "racial" but I think it's "policy".

 

 

[Soxy]

Relevant to whom? The Republican party is 95% white. If it mattered to minorities then why aren't they jumping over to the GOP?

Really? Where did you get that number?

[BigSqwert]

Really? Where did you get that number?

"Bigsqwert's Book Of Ridiculousness" circa 1988

[bmags]

I don't know that the GOP is 90% white, but the voting #'s for blacks I believe is overwhelmingly democrat. 80%? in 04?

[lostfan]

You really want me to get into that? I call it brainwashing, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Now, on that point, I don't think it's "racial" but I think it's "policy".

All of that completely changed after the Civil Rights movement. The people who would be Republicans for racial reasons are now Democrats and vice versa. The Southern Democrats that supported the KKK and blocked the amendments etc. moved over to the Republican party and that has yet to change.

[BigSqwert]

I don't know that the GOP is 90% white, but the voting #'s for blacks I believe is overwhelmingly democrat. 80%? in 04?

The 95% I noted was an obvious exaggeration but I think you guys understood my point that the GOP is a very white party.

Edited June 26, 2008 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

All of that completely changed after the Civil Rights movement. The people who would be Republicans for racial reasons are now Democrats and vice versa. The Southern Democrats that supported the KKK and blocked the amendments etc. moved over to the Republican party and that has yet to change.

That's where a lot of it started, and boy, that makes me really sad. However, I think that the entitlements offered by Democrats in general, and the fighting of those by Republicans - (and here's the important part) combined with the Democrat's policies of "you are entitiled to those entitlements from your government" gives the impression that Democrats are the better party for the little guy. In reality, I think neither party cares, but the message over the last 30-50 years has been exactly that, and minorites in this country buy that line more often then their "majority" counterparts.

 

 

[lostfan]

That's where a lot of it started, and boy, that makes me really sad. However, I think that the entitlements offered by Democrats in general, and the fighting of those by Republicans - (and here's the important part) combined with the Democrat's policies of "you are entitiled to those entitlements from your government" gives the impression that Democrats are the better party for the little guy. In reality, I think neither party cares, but the message over the last 30-50 years has been exactly that, and minorites in this country buy that line more often then their "majority" counterparts.

People tend to vote for their own personal interests rather than what's good for the country, I guess.

[bmags]

People tend to vote for their own personal interests rather than what's good for the country, I guess.

 

personal interests is an excellent way to vote. When people say they aren't voting for obama because he will raise taxes, I have no argument and am completely in agreement that is how they should vote. Were they to say, because he's a Muslim, that would be much stupider of a reason. And also that reason could be more argued that they are voting that way because they think a Muslim would be bad for the country. So I disagree with your statement as being a bad way to vote.

[lostfan]

So I disagree with your statement as being a bad way to vote.

'scuse me?

 

You had to have completely made that up.

Edited June 26, 2008 by lostfan

[mreye]

All of that completely changed after the Civil Rights movement. The people who would be Republicans for racial reasons are now Democrats and vice versa. The Southern Democrats that supported the KKK and blocked the amendments etc. moved over to the Republican party and that has yet to change.

 

Uh-huh. Like Robert Byrd.

 

[lostfan]

Uh-huh. Like Robert Byrd.

Yes, because Robert Byrd being a Democrat means the Southern Strategy didn't happen and that nothing I said is true.

[mreye]

Yes, because Robert Byrd being a Democrat means the Southern Strategy didn't happen and that nothing I said is true.

 

You said former KKK members became Republicans. I'm just pointing out that the only former member of the KKK currently holding office in Washington is indeed a Democrat.

 

[lostfan]

You said former KKK members became Republicans. I'm just pointing out that the only former member of the KKK currently holding office in Washington is indeed a Democrat.

That wasn't what I said, or at least intended to say. The point I was trying to make is that the Republican Party of the past 50 years is not the same Republican Party from the Reconstruction era (to the point of being completely irrelevant to even bring up) and it's intellectually dishonest for someone to act like it is. The party back in the era that was in support of all the Jim Crow laws and let the KKK do the things they did was the Democrats in the South. It stayed that way for the next century or so until the 60s when the Republicans appealed to the white conservatives in the South (who would be those Democrats) and now they're Republicans, and the states in the Deep South have been red ever since except for the blacks who are mostly Democrat but not in enough numbers to make a difference. Nowhere was I trying to say "the KKK used to be Democrat and now it's Republican."

Edited June 26, 2008 by lostfan

[mreye]

Understood.

 

Al Gore, Sr was one of those Democrats blocking civil rights laws in the 60s. His son is still a Democrat.

 

I just disagree that the parties are all that different now. To me, welfare is slavery and that's exacly where many Democratic lawmakers want to keep blacks and the poor. It's just in a different package now:

Dem: "Let us help you (Since you're not good enough to help yourself)."

GOP: "You're good enough. Pick your damned self up!"

 

I agree with the GOP approach - it's means less government. Now, if we could only find some Republicans with some backbone to really implement it...

[lostfan]

^^That's where Kap and me started going. There is still the perception, for whatever reason, that Democrats are the party "for" black people. As far as the attitudes towards social classes and effectiveness of policies and whatnot that's another argument.

[kapkomet]

Understood.

 

Al Gore, Sr was one of those Democrats blocking civil rights laws in the 60s. His son is still a Democrat.

 

I just disagree that the parties are all that different now. To me, welfare is slavery and that's exacly where many Democratic lawmakers want to keep blacks and the poor. It's just in a different package now:

Dem: "Let us help you (Since you're not good enough to help yourself)."

GOP: "You're good enough. Pick your damned self up!"

 

I agree with the GOP approach - it's means less government. Now, if we could only find some Republicans with some backbone to really implement it...

 

 

^^That's where Kap and me started going. There is still the perception, for whatever reason, that Democrats are the party "for" black people. As far as the attitudes towards social classes and effectiveness of policies and whatnot that's another argument.

You guys got to exactly what I was trying to say.

 

 

[mreye]

You guys got to exactly what I was trying to say.

 

You get there your way, we'll get there ours.

 

[lostfan]

re: welfare, when you're in that situation (dirt poor) and it's benefiting you, or you know a lot of people who are in that situation and benefiting from it, you aren't going to want to give it up and you're not going to want to hear the "pick yourself up" arguments, and even if they can see the big picture it doesn't help them in the near term. Those arguments only work on people with stable lives who have no need for welfare.

 

For various reasons, blacks (and Hispanics) have a higher percentage of poor people in their communities so it applies more to them than anyone else.

[kapkomet]

You get there your way, we'll get there ours.

You goof.

 

[bmags]

People tend to vote for their own personal interests rather than what's good for the country, I guess.

 

if what I said was not what you intended, then your statement was still pretty loaded.