Konerko BAD - Fire GOOD

[Dick Allen]

Right, and Konerko has been just wonderful

Why can't you get it through your head that Konerko has been injured for most of the season. First with a hand problem and then the oblique? Have you looked at the back of his baseball card? Its pretty good.

 

If Konerko is the garbage a lot of this board thinks he is, then so is Swisher. Instead of replacing garbage with garbage, why doesn't anyone have any better ideas?

[lostfan]

They both started out pretty well but have been getting hammered for the better part of 2 months. You can't explain so you say its different. Why are they not comparable? The Sox only have to pay Contreras through next year. They have a bit longer with Vazquez. Javy Vazquez gets a break on this board because he gets a lot of strikeouts.

Jose Contreras began pitching during the Truman administration and began the year with zero expectations from most people so when he pitched well, it was a bonus. Vazquez is a sometimes inconsistent but relatively effective pitcher, whose rough stretch in reality has not lasted that much longer than Buehrle's did. Furthermore, Vazquez is not the five-and-dive pitcher he was in 2006, this year he's been either on or of from the beginning.

 

Like I said I'm not going to bother explaining much further than that because it's a waste of time.

[lostfan]

Why can't you get it through your head that Konerko has been injured for most of the season. First with a hand problem and then the oblique? Have you looked at the back of his baseball card? Its pretty good.

 

If Konerko is the garbage a lot of this board thinks he is, then so is Swisher. Instead of replacing garbage with garbage, why doesn't anyone have any better ideas?

Why do you keep saying "except for June"?

[Kyyle23]

Why can't you get it through your head that Konerko has been injured for most of the season. First with a hand problem and then the oblique? Have you looked at the back of his baseball card? Its pretty good.

 

If Konerko is the garbage a lot of this board thinks he is, then so is Swisher. Instead of replacing garbage with garbage, why doesn't anyone have any better ideas?

 

Swisher I have seen an improvement from. Konerko hasnt looked the same since 2006, Im sorry you disagree.

 

I understand that he has been injured this year, but now he is supposed to be better, so now what? We have to suffer through extended periods of suckage with the hope that he looks at his baseball card and says "gee, Im supposed to be hitting better now, as a matter of fact I almost always turn it around now.", and watch his defense cost us 2 games in the first 6 games he comes back?

 

Im one of the more optimistic people on this board, but Im not gonna sit back and watch Konerko continue to slide and just accept it because you tell me to look at his baseball card.

Edited July 18, 2008 by kyyle23

[Dick Allen]

Swisher I have seen an improvement from. Konerko hasnt looked the same since 2006, Im sorry you disagree.

 

In July, Swisher has 42 AB with 1 homer 12 strikeouts and a .214 AVG. Its a small sample size, but if Jim Thome does the same his next 42 AB, we will read countless posts how he sucks and is done. If that is improvement and satisfactory production then I would take my chances that Konerko can do better than that.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

Why do you keep saying "except for June"?

Because Swisher had a great June. Except for June, he has been very, very bad. As I stated earlier, his .214 average in July is his second highest monthly average so far this season.

[RockRaines]

Why can't you get it through your head that Konerko has been injured for most of the season. First with a hand problem and then the oblique? Have you looked at the back of his baseball card? Its pretty good.

 

If Konerko is the garbage a lot of this board thinks he is, then so is Swisher. Instead of replacing garbage with garbage, why doesn't anyone have any better ideas?

Konerko is on the downside of his career and the trend is he wont produce those numbers on the back of his baseball card, Swish is entering his prime and odds are he will improve on his career numbers. Swish is also superior defensively. Its not exactly rocket science why people prefer Swisher.

[Dick Allen]

Konerko is on the downside of his career and the trend is he wont produce those numbers on the back of his baseball card, Swish is entering his prime and odds are he will improve on his career numbers. Swish is also superior defensively. Its not exactly rocket science why people prefer Swisher.

And Owens, Fields and Richar are only going to get better.

[RockRaines]

And Owens, Fields and Richar are only going to get better.

Yes, those minor leaguers should probably get better, though Owens is not exactly a spring chicken. Im sure some 12 year old at the little league field near you will get better as well.

 

Of course if you want to stay on topic and talk about Nick Swisher and his production at the major league level you could probably contribute to the discussion. Konerko has entered a point in his career where his skills are becoming diminished, its going to happen to every ballplayer out there. I suggest you get used to it now as it will happen many times over the course of your life.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Its also going to be hard for you to base your entire argument on the fact that Konerko was hurt the first half of this year considering his numbers were trending downward already last season as well.

[Dick Allen]

Its also going to be hard for you to base your entire argument on the fact that Konerko was hurt the first half of this year considering his numbers were trending downward already last season as well.

Hasn't Swisher's numbers been trending down? Konerko is 32. He has plenty of time left. He can't run. He can do everything else. He's been injured. Almost the entire team trended down last year. He's a couple of years younger than Cabrera.

[RockRaines]

Hasn't Swisher's numbers been trending down? Konerko is 32. He has plenty of time left. He can't run. He can do everything else. He's been injured. Almost the entire team trended down last year. He's a couple of years younger than Cabrera.

So he's been in a 2 year slump? Come on. We all want Paulie to succeed, but it obvious at this point his production has seen its peak. And once again, Swish is about to enter his prime, we havent even seen his peak yet.

[Dick Allen]

So he's been in a 2 year slump? Come on. We all want Paulie to succeed, but it obvious at this point his production has seen its peak. And once again, Swish is about to enter his prime, we havent even seen his peak yet.

Because Paulie had a down year last year? Didn't JD? Isn't he about the same age or older than Konerko. How do you know you haven't seen Swisher's peak? You thought Jerry Owens, Richar and Fields were guys that had to be playing this year. They were only going to get better. Konerko is fine when healthy. I'll take a .259 avg. with a .350 OBP with 30 homers and 90 rbi in a "bad season" anytime. Is Swisher did that, he would be considered godly around here.

 

Paulie's "slump" of 2007 .259 31 homers 91 rbi .351 OBP

 

Swisher's "huge" 2006

35 homers 95 rbi .254 avg. .372 OBP.

 

About the same, and I would take Swisher's 2006 over his 2007 which I would take over his 2008. But he's going to a peak, Konerko is falling off the ledge. OK.

 

Dye is 2 years older than Paulie. Last year he hit fewer homers, lower average and lower OBP than Paulie. According to your charts, he should have been taken out to the back and shot.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Dick Allen

[RockRaines]

Who exactly are you responding to? You quote me but argue points that I never stated. What chart exactly? What do owens and fields have to do with konerko? What does jermaine dye have to do with this discussion? Are you saying he had a down year last year followed by a good one this year? Not sure how that compares to konerko at all. Maybe if dye was hitting barely above the mendoza line you would have a valid point. I'm still searching for the post where I said swish had a huge year..... Did he have a better year than Konerko, yes, is he entering his prime, yes, that's pretty much all anyone has said.

 

If you want to make a point in this discussion, please enlighten us to how konerko's numbers do not suggest regression, that can be your starting point.

[Dick Allen]

Who exactly are you responding to? You quote me but argue points that I never stated. What chart exactly? What do owens and fields have to do with konerko? What does jermaine dye have to do with this discussion? Are you saying he had a down year last year followed by a good one this year? Not sure how that compares to konerko at all. Maybe if dye was hitting barely above the mendoza line you would have a valid point. I'm still searching for the post where I said swish had a huge year..... Did he have a better year than Konerko, yes, is he entering his prime, yes, that's pretty much all anyone has said.

 

If you want to make a point in this discussion, please enlighten us to how konerko's numbers do not suggest regression, that can be your starting point.

So you're running away from all of your posts last year saying how Owens was only going to get better. Richar was only going to get better. Fields was only going to get better. All of your posts where you mention "the wrong side of 30" are also silly. 30 isn't old for a baseball player.My point is Konerko is 32, to take his down year when he was 31 and saying that he has peaked and its obvious he's going into the tank is argued using Dye, a guy who had a down year when he was 33 and seems to have comeback fine. Using the regression charts in your mind, Dye should have been considered toast after last year. Konerko has been hurt this entire year. Get it through your skull. You need to throw away this year's numbers up until now.

 

Please enlighten me as to how Swisher's numbers wouldn't indicate regression. By your chart, I mean the career curve you actually think you know everyone will take, even though you are almost always wrong, he would be on the upswing. Maybe I'm missing something from his performance.

[lostfan]

Why is it so crazy to assume that first-year players in MLB are going to get better? When they players are good, their rookie #'s always improve. The ones who do not improve after a significant # of at-bats are called "busts," in either case, the comparison between them and established MLB players who are trending up and down is an extremely poor one. The rookies who come in and take the league by storm (Alexei Ramirez doesn't really count) are the exception to the rule.

[chitownsportsfan]

Konerko OPS+ and age last 4 years:

 

2005: 134 (29)

2006: 136 (30)

2007: 116 (31)

2008: 82 (32)

 

I think it's reasonable to say that Kong is on the downside of his career. That said, he's proven to be an above average hitter in his career, so even those he's past his prime should still be a decent hitter. I think it's reasonable to assume he will finish with an OPS+ around 100 this year (given enough PA), and that will be two years in a row with significant drop off.

 

I'm in favor of benching Kong is he does not find anything by the middle of August: the team is so much better defensively with Swisher at 1st and BA in CF that it just doesn't make sense to give him anymore time to find it this year.

 

 

 

[greg775]

Im not less of a fan because I would choose to boo a player for poor performance.

 

Keep telling yourself that in regards to Sox great Paul Konerko. You seen that youtube clip yet of his granny?

[BigSqwert]

Keep telling yourself that in regards to Sox great Paul Konerko. You seen that youtube clip yet of his granny?

Give it a rest already. You are of the opinion that you never boo a home town player. Other people feel that you can. No one is right. It's everyone's individual prerogative if they want to boo or not.

[greg775]

How do you know I am of the opinion you should never boo a hometown player?

I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't yell at the guy next to me who does it.

Have you read the last 20 posts since my last post? Nobody else is giving it a rest. Why don't you give it a rest telling me to give it a rest?

Edited July 18, 2008 by greg775

[lostfan]

This is just comical now.

[BigSqwert]

How do you know I am of the opinion you should never boo a hometown player?

 

Sounds like that's what you've been saying in this thread. And your very next sentence (see bolded) says you wouldn't.

 

I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't yell at the guy next to me who does it.

 

But you'd yell at a guy in a message board for suggesting they would boo a Sox player.

Edited July 18, 2008 by BigSqwert

[Kyyle23]

Keep telling yourself that in regards to Sox great Paul Konerko. You seen that youtube clip yet of his granny?

 

 

Greg, you keep confusing now and then. I saw it when it happened. I cheered it when it happened. I applaud everything Konerko did for the team.....in 2005. Now when I see him ground into a double play or pop up and slump his shoulders and practically walk to first base, it pisses me off.

 

Im sorry that you accept that kind of play because he hit a grand slam in the world series. To me, thats just a dumb way of looking at things. Im sure that the Yankee fans could give two sh*ts about Aaron Boone right now, and he has a pretty big part of their history considering his homerun put them in the world series. it didnt tie the game, it actually put them in the World Series. Do you think Yankee fans would boo Aaron Boone? I think they would. Or maybe we should talk about Johnny Damon and everything he did for the Red Sox when they won the WS in 2004. Do you think Red Sox fans will boo Johnny Damon even though he is a part of thier "lore" and their "tradition"? i think Red Sox fans would, in fact I know they do. Who cares that he left their team for their rival? He is a part of their "tradition" and thier "lore", and he had an amazing playoffs and World Series that year, so nobody should boo him in Greg775's world.

 

 

Unlike you, I can keep PERSPECTIVE and I understand that when a player is starting to suck, and is hurting the team, its gonna bring out the boo birds. Now since you think that I said that I boo Paul Konerko, find the quote where I said i am booing Konerko, because I never said it, i just understand why people want to boo him. The start of this argument was when you said that everyone is a jackass who boos a bad player. Then you said it was against White Sox tradition. Both of which I disagree with, mostly because booing a player has nothing to do with tradition, considering players get booed by white sox fans every year, regardless of status and "tradition".

 

I stopped arguing with you because I am sick of reading your Haiku's. Stop bringing it up.

 

How do you know I am of the opinion you should never boo a hometown player?

how can you say this as if you are offended and follow it with this:

 

I wouldn\'t do it.

seriously, do you read what you write?

 

 

Have you read the last 20 posts since my last post? Nobody else is giving it a rest. Why don't you give it a rest telling me to give it a rest?

 

the argument shifted to Konerkos decline, which Dick is making a good argument against, it has nothing to do with booing Konerko anymore. You brought it back up

Edited July 18, 2008 by kyyle23

[Buehrle>Wood]

How do you know I am of the opinion you should never boo a hometown player?

I wouldn't do it.

 

wat

[stretchstretch]

"I don't have kids"

 

this is obvious

 

If I did, I wouldn't feel the need to teach them about the intricacies of when to boo and when not to boo. Let them decide.

 

don't predict what you'd do with kids until you have them, you'll be shocked at how differently you do things once you're actually in that position. lines like this remind me of people who talk about how good of a parent they'd be based upon the care they provide for their dog and/or cat!

 

It's a sport their watching afterall, and if they feel justified in booing a player then it's their choice.

 

so is text messaging/emailing while driving a moving vehicle, putting 8 woofers in a box in the backseat of your honda civic so people 2 miles away can share your "musical choice", or telling an overweight person they are fat, but I don't agree with doing those either.......having a choice and one being in bad taste are very different things.

 

PK knows he's sucking, emphasizing that by "calling him fat" doesn't help anything for him, you, or the Sox organization. KW will eventually do what he needs to do with or without the public booing. The BoSox or Yankee fans might boo but that still doesn't make it right to the opinion of some, in fact to some it's an indication of being lower on the civilization scale, it's pretty easy for any mindless mouthbreather to do....