Konerko BAD - Fire GOOD

[lostfan]

I want to understand why Swisher gets a free pass from so many and Paulie the wrath?

Swisher looked like an ant in center field last night.

He's not a great defender and he's made as many frustrating outs as Paulie and also is on the wrong side of even .250.

Oh but he walks a lot.

So Paulie has sucked big time. We're still in first place and he is not finished yet.

Andruw Jones??? My god. Just say no to that idea.

Keep Paulie and tell him to get his head out of his ass and start hitting like Paulie.

Swisher has never hit for a high average, not even in the minors except for a couple of bursts. He is a different type of hitter, his offensive production will be different, so his expectations are different. Swisher isn't expected to drive in runs.

[BigSqwert]

Hopefully Paulie starts a nice hitting streak today and makes all of this moot.

[Greg Hibbard]

walk #12 - walked and scored

walk #13 - walked, was pinch run for, pinch runner scored

walk #14 - stranded at third after leadoff walk, flyout, subsequent walk, a throwing error moving him to third, and then two popouts. Not sure if speed impacted this one but given the description I doubt it.

walk #15 - walked, was stranded at third after a couple of fcs (bases were constantly loaded with speedy Thome ahead of him)

walk #16 - walked with 2 outs, JD strikes out.

walk #17 - walked, was pinch run for (anderson), two more walks, ozuna GIDPs with the bases loaded to end the game (this was that toronto game)

walk #18 - two out walk, JD makes third out (AGAIN)

 

should I keep going or are we getting the picture

 

this "clogging up the basepaths" argument is sort of bulls*** in my opinion

Edited July 11, 2008 by Greg Hibbard

[Bubba Philips]

Bengie Molina is slower and I still think Thome is pretty darn slow.

I met paulies dad, Hank, once at the sox angels game in tempe arizona.. My friend didn't realize that konerko's dad was sitting in front of us. I only told his dad you can tell he is frustrated and once he gets his confidence he'll be hitting the ball batter.. my friend ,of course, not realizing who was in front of us. Was yelling Konerko sucks we need to get rid of the bum or worse.. Well; Hank's friend bought me a beer but my friend was excluded. Once my friend finally realized why he didn't get a beer he left his seat only to go into an empty seat about 7 rows further up. I too get upset with Konerko I know when there is a possiblility of driving in runs Konerko has shown a preference to hitting into double plays, popping out in the infield, striking out or hitting ground balls in the infield which of course are automatic outs to the not so fleet of foot.. When he's hot he does the impossible.. So could someone give him some confidence pills or something.. Presently we play better without him. I like Swisher at first and either Brian or Wise in platoon in center who both field better than swisher in cf.. At first defensively I have began to change my mind as to which plays better d at first I always though Paulie couldn't be beat.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

walk #12 - walked and scored

walk #13 - walked, was pinch run for, pinch runner scored

walk #14 - stranded at third after leadoff walk, flyout, subsequent walk, a throwing error moving him to third, and then two popouts. Not sure if speed impacted this one but given the description I doubt it.

walk #15 - walked, was stranded at third after a couple of fcs (bases were constantly loaded with speedy Thome ahead of him)

walk #16 - walked with 2 outs, JD strikes out.

walk #17 - walked, was pinch run for (anderson), two more walks, ozuna GIDPs with the bases loaded to end the game (this was that toronto game)

walk #18 - two out walk, JD makes third out (AGAIN)

 

should I keep going or are we getting the picture

 

this "clogging up the basepaths" argument is sort of bulls*** in my opinion

Since you're having so much fun pulling up his stats how about LOB?

 

Or GIDP

Edited July 11, 2008 by BigSqwert

[greg775]

Swisher isn't expected to drive in runs.

 

Is he expected to play a good center field and hit above .250?

[Dick Allen]

Swisher has never hit for a high average, not even in the minors except for a couple of bursts. He is a different type of hitter, his offensive production will be different, so his expectations are different. Swisher isn't expected to drive in runs.

But walks for Paulie supposedly mean nothing, but they are great for Swisher. I don't understand. Earlier a post said Swisher can steal you a base. I guess that's accurated because he does have a steal this year. Plus, everyone wants him at first base. Teams that don't expect their firstbaseman to drive in runs usually have trouble scoring runs, but I guess that would go back to Greg Walker. Outside of a couple of grand slams, Swisher really hasn't been a guy you want batting with runners on base this year. He seems to whiff a lot.

[Dick Allen]

Is he expected to play a good center field and hit above .250?

When he was acquired I know I made an issue of his defense in CF as did a couple of others, but the overwhelming majority of this board said he was at least better than average out there and he would hit 35-40 homers playing half his games at USCF. They talk about Konerko supposedly aging, look at Swisher's declining slugging pct. now declining for a second consecutive year. The guy had a great June, but has been horrible the other parts of the year.

[Baines3]

Once Konerko starts clicking then the league better watchout!

 

 

[VAfan]

For the record I just wanna say that Iam not saying the Sox should trade Konerko.But this mentality going around this team of totally dismissing bad performance because what they did two and three years ago drives me crazy.There should be some type of consequence for not doing your job,maybe you should sit for a game or a week.Put the players in that are going to get it done that day and stop nurturing their fragile egos.

 

 

Yes, yes, I completely agree with this. And a big part of the problem is that Ozzie seems to reward certain players with playing time, rather than rewarding those who make the right plays.

 

Here's a little comparison for the Konerko defenders:

 

2008 65 239 27 51 9 1 8 31 35 47 1 0 .213 .319 .360 .679

2008 74 252 27 55 8 0 11 30 37 76 1 0 .218 .315 .381 .696

 

Guess which one is Konerko's line and which one is the just-released line of Richie Sexson?

 

HINT: The released guy has the better stats!

[greg775]

But walks for Paulie supposedly mean nothing, but they are great for Swisher. I don't understand.

 

That's what I don't understand as well.

Paulie has sucked with his meager 8 homers in a year he's been hurt some.

Swisher has also been average at best and I don't think he's a great centerfielder.

One stolen base. Yeah he's really fast.

I want Swish lovers to respond to Dick's two posts!

Edited July 11, 2008 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

Yes, yes, I completely agree with this. And a big part of the problem is that Ozzie seems to reward certain players with playing time, rather than rewarding those who make the right plays.

 

Here's a little comparison for the Konerko defenders:

 

2008 65 239 27 51 9 1 8 31 35 47 1 0 .213 .319 .360 .679

2008 74 252 27 55 8 0 11 30 37 76 1 0 .218 .315 .381 .696

 

Guess which one is Konerko's line and which one is the just-released line of Richie Sexson?

 

HINT: The released guy has the better stats!

Konerko has played hurt almost the entire season. Look at Ramirez's stats in April. Maybe they should have sent him down or cut him. Why not see where Konerko is at when healthy before judging what he's capable of doing?

[lostfan]

But walks for Paulie supposedly mean nothing, but they are great for Swisher. I don't understand. Earlier a post said Swisher can steal you a base. I guess that's accurated because he does have a steal this year. Plus, everyone wants him at first base. Teams that don't expect their firstbaseman to drive in runs usually have trouble scoring runs, but I guess that would go back to Greg Walker. Outside of a couple of grand slams, Swisher really hasn't been a guy you want batting with runners on base this year. He seems to whiff a lot.

Paulie is underperforming. By a lot. By far more than Swisher. True or false?

[lostfan]

Konerko has played hurt almost the entire season. Look at Ramirez's stats in April. Maybe they should have sent him down or cut him. Why not see where Konerko is at when healthy before judging what he's capable of doing?

Ok no offense but that analogy is completely ridiculous. You can't compare a guy seeing his first MLB at-bats to someone who's been in MLB almost 10 years and who has an established track record.

[lostfan]

Is he expected to play a good center field and hit above .250?

He's about an average CF, but that's not his strongest position. He's expected to hit AT ABOUT .250 with a decent slugging % and have a OBP above .350, when he doesn't do those things for an extended period of time, then you can blast him.

[almagest]

That's what I don't understand as well.

Paulie has sucked with his meager 8 homers in a year he's been hurt some.

Swisher has also been average at best and I don't think he's a great centerfielder.

I want Swish lovers to respond to Dick's two posts!

You got it.

 

Swisher's June: .315/.402/.630/1.032

 

Don't really need to say anything else. Also, Konerko needs to be given a chance to play out of it. His career numbers suggest an OPS around .850 is a reasonable expectation for the rest of the year, which is just fine with me. If he continues to struggle through July, bench/platoon him. I really don't get all the whining going on around here, especially since we're in first place and the team has looked very good lately.

[greg775]

Thome has been getting some hits lately so the heat has been off him on this board.

All Jimmy is gonna have to do is have an oh-fer in Texas for many to say he's through as well.

Edited July 11, 2008 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

He's about an average CF, but that's not his strongest position. He's expected to hit AT ABOUT .250 with a decent slugging % and have a OBP above .350, when he doesn't do those things for an extended period of time, then you can blast him.

What's his OBP? What's his average? How many games are we into the season? I guess its blasting time.

[greg775]

Almaguest you didn't respond to Dick's post.

He pointed out Swish had ONE GOOD MONTH.

He also pointed out some major flaws.

[lostfan]

What's his OBP? What's his average? How many games are we into the season? I guess its blasting time.

ok

 

You know full well he had a great June. He's sucked for like a week right now. You're ignoring that, but I don't know why.

 

Cognitive dissonance. Do what you want, though. I'm not "defending" Swisher, and I don't really care if somebody doesn't like him. I'm personally content with him on the team. In fact, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore?

[Dick Allen]

Ok no offense but that analogy is completely ridiculous. You can't compare a guy seeing his first MLB at-bats to someone who's been in MLB almost 10 years and who has an established track record.

OK, how about Cabrera in April? How about Swisher every month except June? Konerko has not been healthy all year. He supposedly is right now. It will take a little bit to get into the swing of things. The team is in first place. This thread is sad.

[Dick Allen]

ok

 

You know full well he had a great June. He's sucked for like a week right now. You're ignoring that, but I don't know why.

 

Cognitive dissonance. Do what you want, though. I'm not "defending" Swisher, and I don't really care if somebody doesn't like him. I'm personally content with him on the team. In fact, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore?

What I'm saying is the same people who blast many of the White Sox seem to give Swisher a free pass. Except for June he's been beyond horrible.

[lostfan]

OK, how about Cabrera in April? How about Swisher every month except June? Konerko has not been healthy all year. He supposedly is right now. It will take a little bit to get into the swing of things. The team is in first place. This thread is sad.

Now, see, I agree with all that is said in this post. There are too many stupid things being said in this thread, though.

[DABearSoX]

 

This thread is sad.

 

And quite typical of soxtalk....

 

 

[shipps]

And quite typical of soxtalk....

Yeah I would f***ing love to come to a site where every person agreed with each other.It would making for such interesting conversation.........MAN UP PEOPLE.