Cuba

[kapkomet]

I understand, and there is a certain synergistic effect of these types of mission trips. It fills both people with the Spirit. And I hope I was not downplaying the impact you have had. I just wonder at times how much good we could do state side if we held off overseas missions for one year.

It amazes me, as a culture, how we just are not receptive to evengelical thoughts anymore. People (Americans) just aren't interested.

 

[witesoxfan]

It amazes me, as a culture, how we just are not receptive to evengelical thoughts anymore. People (Americans) just aren't interested.

 

I think there's a Carlos Quentin joke in there somewhere

[kapkomet]

I think there's a Carlos Quentin joke in there somewhere

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

I understand, and there is a certain synergistic effect of these types of mission trips. It fills both people with the Spirit. And I hope I was not downplaying the impact you have had. I just wonder at times how much good we could do state side if we held off overseas missions for one year.

 

I knew you weren't doing anything but raising questions. s'all good. I think churches just need to rethink their state side and overseas models all together.

 

Churches need to be addressing issues on the local level in innovative ways and asking the community what THEY need rather than relying on old ministry functions. The same could be said about overseas opportunities; American churches should be resource centers for overseas churches. More often than not, the overseas mission will spend the money more effectively than if 10 Americans spent 20k to visit Africa.

 

I get what you're saying Tex, I do.

 

 

I'm attending Bill Hybel's leadership summit again in a couple weeks. I'll give reports about it. Skepticism aside, this two day event is an amazing opportunity for leaders christian or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

It amazes me, as a culture, how we just are not receptive to evengelical thoughts anymore. People (Americans) just aren't interested.

 

I really don't blame people for that. There's a need for churches to return to Acts 2 attitudes.

 

My pastor pointed out the other day this line: Acts 2: 47 "enjoying the favor of all the people"

 

 

ALL the people, meaning, those even on the outside of the church were impressed and respectful of the church. When was the last time THAT happened?

 

I'm not asking people to BELIEVE what I believe, but I sure want people to be impressed with how we relate to the community and the good things we do for people. I want people to respect my church for the emphasis we place on serving others.

[Texsox]

PA, allow me to put this into a little perspective, because my thoughts are shaped by this area. Many groups use this as a point of entry to working in Mexico with the poor people. And I agree, there are many poor people in Mexico. But, while they stay here and wait to enter, this is one of the poorest regions in America. But IMHO not enough Churches will offer a mission trip to a poor US community. They want to sell "exotic" and "challenging" trips. IMHO, we fail in many ways when we are selling the trip location to the youth and not the mission.

 

If you truly want to witness to poor, Spanish speaking people, you do not have to leave the US, they are here. But instead, we want to kick them out and then we will witness. The plane tickets to some of these locations will feed someone for months, possibly a year.

 

And again, I have confidence in your sincerity of purpose and do not wish to show any disrespect. Just offering a log for the campfire.

[lostfan]

It amazes me, as a culture, how we just are not receptive to evengelical thoughts anymore. People (Americans) just aren't interested.

I blame well-meaning but overzealous and condescending Christians for that.

[Soxy]

I really don't blame people for that. There's a need for churches to return to Acts 2 attitudes.

 

My pastor pointed out the other day this line: Acts 2: 47 "enjoying the favor of all the people"

 

 

ALL the people, meaning, those even on the outside of the church were impressed and respectful of the church. When was the last time THAT happened?

 

I'm not asking people to BELIEVE what I believe, but I sure want people to be impressed with how we relate to the community and the good things we do for people. I want people to respect my church for the emphasis we place on serving others.

I'm not sure you'd like him, but have you read Don Miller's book "Blue Like Jazz?" It's well written and engaging--even if you don't like his theology. (And, again, I'm not sure you would, but it's a good book.)

[kapkomet]

I really don't blame people for that. There's a need for churches to return to Acts 2 attitudes.

 

My pastor pointed out the other day this line: Acts 2: 47 "enjoying the favor of all the people"

 

 

ALL the people, meaning, those even on the outside of the church were impressed and respectful of the church. When was the last time THAT happened?

 

I'm not asking people to BELIEVE what I believe, but I sure want people to be impressed with how we relate to the community and the good things we do for people. I want people to respect my church for the emphasis we place on serving others.

The pastor at the church we attend always says "if you haven't been hurt by a church, you haven't been going long enough, because church is a HUMAN experience and there will be mistakes made, whether the minstry (of our church) wants them to be made or not". The question then becomes "can you live with the mistakes made, if they are something to be learned from and then to draw even better experiences in bringing people to God"?

 

I'm glad it's not a check box church.

[Texsox]

Kap,

 

That is one of the best ways I've heard that phrased.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I'm not sure you'd like him, but have you read Don Miller's book "Blue Like Jazz?" It's well written and engaging--even if you don't like his theology. (And, again, I'm not sure you would, but it's a good book.)

 

Haven't read it, but heard good things.

 

I'm pretty much reformed, redemptive historic when it comes to my theology, but I'm always willing to rethink my perspective. I'm not a fan of Marcus Borg, but the questions he raises cause me to think. Same with the Yooma guy.

 

Now that I'm unemployed after friday, I'll be reading alot more.

 

I'm putting that, along with "The Reason for God" by Tim Keller on my list.

[sox4lifeinPA]

PA, allow me to put this into a little perspective, because my thoughts are shaped by this area. Many groups use this as a point of entry to working in Mexico with the poor people. And I agree, there are many poor people in Mexico. But, while they stay here and wait to enter, this is one of the poorest regions in America. But IMHO not enough Churches will offer a mission trip to a poor US community. They want to sell "exotic" and "challenging" trips. IMHO, we fail in many ways when we are selling the trip location to the youth and not the mission.

 

If you truly want to witness to poor, Spanish speaking people, you do not have to leave the US, they are here. But instead, we want to kick them out and then we will witness. The plane tickets to some of these locations will feed someone for months, possibly a year.

 

And again, I have confidence in your sincerity of purpose and do not wish to show any disrespect. Just offering a log for the campfire.

 

We're saying the same thing, but a few things to consider:

 

A) How does overseas missions effect us differently than stateside missions? is there added value by completely removing all familarity?

 

B) There are a hundred ways that churches could better use their resources, but we agree that money spent on hotels and plane tickets could be better used if the money would have been just given to the local church in need.

 

C) We cannot overstate the significance missions plays in the person going and serving. Often times the person being sent sees the most change in their own lives, how they live when they go home, and the new perspectives they have.

 

 

So, as I said, I think we just need to rethink the way we do missions. Yes, a stateside emphasis needs to be placed. I also think, many churches are even failing to address the mission field all together. What are they doing for their local community? What are they doing to address the global church?

 

hopefully that adds to the campfire as well.

[Texsox]

I think we would both agree that an overseas mission, especially to a country where we are not wanted, often has a bigger impact on the missionary then the population at large that is witnessed to. I do see a huge positive affect in that.

 

And perhaps I am overgeneralizing. Your trip was much different then the typical trip I see down here. I see these youth groups who are more interested in picking up pirated movies in Mexico then witnessing or helping. For them, the mission is the penance they pay for their overseas vacation.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I think we would both agree that an overseas mission, especially to a country where we are not wanted, often has a bigger impact on the missionary then the population at large that is witnessed to. I do see a huge positive affect in that.

 

And perhaps I am overgeneralizing. Your trip was much different then the typical trip I see down here. I see these youth groups who are more interested in picking up pirated movies in Mexico then witnessing or helping. For them, the mission is the penance they pay for their overseas vacation.

 

 

and that's a shame when a trip can't be framed correctly and perspective isn't given to the youth.

 

I had two chances to go into Central Mexico twice as a youth and both times I really enjoyed the chance to interact with mexican people and learn about their culture.

 

 

you know, even this trip, one of reflections on the time spent there was that even the adults were on the trip had different levels of interest in the culture we were interacting with. We had the chance to spend a day in Havana site seeing and shopping, but a few guys had no desire to see the city or experience Cuban life. Sad, in my opinion.

 

 

[kapkomet]

You should yell at us when you go by to College Station.

 

[Rex Kickass]

Haven't read it, but heard good things.

 

I'm pretty much reformed, redemptive historic when it comes to my theology, but I'm always willing to rethink my perspective. I'm not a fan of Marcus Borg, but the questions he raises cause me to think. Same with the Yooma guy.

 

Now that I'm unemployed after friday, I'll be reading alot more.

 

I'm putting that, along with "The Reason for God" by Tim Keller on my list.

Donald Miller is most excellent. He has three books, if I'm not mistaken, and they're all good. I also like Anne Lamott a lot too.

 

[Soxy]

Donald Miller is most excellent. He has three books, if I'm not mistaken, and they're all good. I also like Anne Lamott a lot too.

He took me a couple of chapters to really buy into Blue Like Jazz. The only reason I read after the first few chapters is because it was lent to me by a friend whose literary judgments I really trust. But it definitely got a lot better as it went on. But by the end, I really liked his ideas. And he has the most interesting little stories.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Day 3 is up.

 

alexburdine.com "The Cuba Journal"

[LosMediasBlancas]

I'm jealous and getting hungry. You give me a pile of rice, a stack of beans, grilled plantains and some kind of fish and I'm good.

Can you get away with calling a rum & coke a "Cuba libre"?

[sox4lifeinPA]

I'm jealous and getting hungry. You give me a pile of rice, a stack of beans, grilled plantains and some kind of fish and I'm good.

Can you get away with calling a rum & coke a "Cuba libre"?

 

 

I was surpirsed by two things (amongst a pile of them): One of the hotels we stayed at put up a flag for every country represented by those staying in the hotel that night...and sure enough, there was a US flag up. Very humbling and honoring, I had to say.

 

the other thing was that apparently it's a custom to hand out mixed drinks as you're being checked into your room. Once we got Mojitos and the other time was Rum and Cokes.

 

good times.

[LosMediasBlancas]

I was surpirsed by two things (amongst a pile of them): One of the hotels we stayed at put up a flag for every country represented by those staying in the hotel that night...and sure enough, there was a US flag up. Very humbling and honoring, I had to say.

 

the other thing was that apparently it's a custom to hand out mixed drinks as you're being checked into your room. Once we got Mojitos and the other time was Rum and Cokes.

 

good times.

 

That flag thing is pretty cool.

Where are the majority of the other tourists from? Just curious.

[sox4lifeinPA]

That flag thing is pretty cool.

Where are the majority of the other tourists from? Just curious.

 

 

We ran into a lot of people from Ireland, believe it or not.

 

There was a swath of other nations represented. In mexican customs on the way back from Havana, in front of me was a French guy and his son, two english students, and behind me was a couple from Spain. I noticed a handful of Russians too. We even met a few Americans.

 

Holguin, which is a major city on the north east side of the country, had flights from Toronto and London, as well as a handful of latin american cities. There were literally a line of buses waiting for each plane load of tourists.

 

I gathered from some conversations that Cuba is a vacation destination for many Europeans. There's even a Sandals resort on the north central coast.

[Texsox]

Cuba was a grand vacation destination for Americans before the enbargo. Thanks for the cigars

[LosMediasBlancas]

Cuba was a grand vacation destination for Americans before the enbargo. Thanks for the cigars

 

 

...and hopefully one day it will be that again, our Vegas Island.

[LosMediasBlancas]

We ran into a lot of people from Ireland, believe it or not.

 

There was a swath of other nations represented. In mexican customs on the way back from Havana, in front of me was a French guy and his son, two english students, and behind me was a couple from Spain. I noticed a handful of Russians too. We even met a few Americans.

 

Holguin, which is a major city on the north east side of the country, had flights from Toronto and London, as well as a handful of latin american cities. There were literally a line of buses waiting for each plane load of tourists.

 

I gathered from some conversations that Cuba is a vacation destination for many Europeans. There's even a Sandals resort on the north central coast.

 

So you went the Mexico route? U.S to Cancun to Cuba? Did they stamp your passport? I heard if you ask them not to, they won't.