AJ Burnett, anyone?

[chitownsportsfan]

That trade was not a steal the brewers gave up a top tier prospect and three other prospects for a great pitcher for half a season. He wont resign, so they threw four prospects to the indians who are out it, and could technically sign him back next year with the prospects (They wont resign him tho i dont think). It was a steal for the indians if they get anything out of these four prospects because they dont need him this year, and they wouldnt have resigned him anyway.

 

Yea, but as I told my good friend Joe Morgan, (who also doesn't seem to understand how baseball works): if CC leaves the Brewers get the compensation picks, probably 2 of the top 50. That replaces their prospects right there. It's the same reason the Sox traded for Cabrera even though they probably weren't going to resign him.

 

This is a great trade for the Brewers.

[Harry Chappas]

Anyone that thinks the Brewers didn't get a steal is so enamored with minor league baseball that they want a better AA team than MLB team. The Brewers were so decimated by the Linebrink trade that still probably have enough talent to get the best reliever out there.

 

If they lose Sheets and Sabathia, they will have 5 of the top 35 picks in the draft next year and will be gettting an ace back in Gallardo. Their AA team is still loaded after this trade.

 

The Brewers could be one of the best teams in baseball for the next few years if they play their cards right.

[elrockinMT]

It just isn't going to happen. The Sox right now are 5 deep, which most teams, playoff teams, can't say. Because of that, the Sox aren't going to outbid anyone for a top tier starter.

 

 

As Williams has said, don't expect a move. If anything, it will be a Blum type move. One guy I would look at is Casey Blake. I believe Fathom brought up his name before, and would be a real nice fit a 3B. I'm really starting to lose trust in Crede and his back, and his struggles against LHP has been brutal. Blake is on a one year deal, and doesn't have a ton of value to the Tribe, especially with Marte at the hot corner, so it's something that could be looked at.

 

 

Tony,

 

If you question the stability of Crede don't you think Konerko and Thome should be worries also? I really believe that Crede is just in a slump and as the weather is now heating up for the second half he will come out of it. I would hope Thome and Konerko are in the same boat. Although I do agree I don't see any major moves on the horizon.

[BigSqwert]

I wouldn't even take Burnett for Contreras straight up.

[Pants Rowland]

I wouldn't even take Burnett for Contreras straight up.

 

I am not sure I would go to that length, but it is a legitimate response. I think you hold what you have right now. With the exception of trading for a high OBP regular to play CF, I do not see this team making any moves. It might not be good enough to win it all this year, but the nucleus is strong for the long haul.

 

If the Sox can nurse a good 2nd half out of Jose, I could see trying to trade him for prospects in the offseason and upgrading his spot via free agency or possibly trying out Broadway or a lower cost journeyman alternative.

[maggliopipe]

This is exactly the kind of move that Kenny has shown a propensity to swing in the past. He targets a guy with an injury-checkered past and/or great yet unharnessed potential signed to a deal with cost certainty. I'm thinking Javy, Thornton, Dye, Thome, etc here. He figures he puts him in Herm's hands to help deal with the injuries (Sox having a fantastic history of keeping pitchers healthy) and Coop's hands to deal with harnessing the potential, and if he can get a taker for Contreras in the offseason, he's not adding any salary to the rotation. The biggest wrench thrown into the equation is if Burnett indeed has an opt out clause in his contract.

 

I'm not saying I'd love Burnett but I also wouldn't be too upset if they got him in a salary dump type of move from Toronto.

[bmags]

This is exactly the kind of move that Kenny has shown a propensity to swing in the past. He targets a guy with an injury-checkered past and/or great yet unharnessed potential signed to a deal with cost certainty. I'm thinking Javy, Thornton, Dye, Thome, etc here. He figures he puts him in Herm's hands to help deal with the injuries (Sox having a fantastic history of keeping pitchers healthy) and Coop's hands to deal with harnessing the potential, and if he can get a taker for Contreras in the offseason, he's not adding any salary to the rotation. The biggest wrench thrown into the equation is if Burnett indeed has an opt out clause in his contract.

 

I'm not saying I'd love Burnett but I also wouldn't be too upset if they got him in a salary dump type of move from Toronto.

 

while this is true, he does these trades during the off-season.

[gosox41]

It just isn't going to happen. The Sox right now are 5 deep, which most teams, playoff teams, can't say. Because of that, the Sox aren't going to outbid anyone for a top tier starter.

 

 

As Williams has said, don't expect a move. If anything, it will be a Blum type move. One guy I would look at is Casey Blake. I believe Fathom brought up his name before, and would be a real nice fit a 3B. I'm really starting to lose trust in Crede and his back, and his struggles against LHP has been brutal. Blake is on a one year deal, and doesn't have a ton of value to the Tribe, especially with Marte at the hot corner, so it's something that could be looked at.

 

 

I agree that KW probably won't make a big move unless he has to (ie Jenks is hurt for extended period).

 

But it is fun this time of year to see posters here analyze what KW says. For instance, seeing as how this team is currently set up, the state of our minor league system, etc, I take KW's words at face value--I don't see him bringing in a big time SP or everyday player.

 

But some here see that and think KW is flying under the radar again and is working on a 7 team trade that would net the Sox A-Rod, Jose Reyes, and other stars for Lance Broadway.

 

 

 

[DBAHO]

I think Zito and in a smaller way, Santana, will make it nearly impossible for CC to get 7 or 8 years.

I've go no doubt though, if the Yankees miss the playoffs, Hank Steinbrenner will do what he can (hence overpay) to make sure that doesn't happen again next season.

 

That's my guess where'll he end up anyways, after they decided to keep their young SP's.

[Felix]

Yea, but as I told my good friend Joe Morgan, (who also doesn't seem to understand how baseball works): if CC leaves the Brewers get the compensation picks, probably 2 of the top 50. That replaces their prospects right there. It's the same reason the Sox traded for Cabrera even though they probably weren't going to resign him.

 

This is a great trade for the Brewers.

A sandwich pick at the end of the round doesn't replace Matt LaPorta, who was the seventh overall pick.

 

They gave up six years of a player who is going to hit the majors in a year or two for a half a year of an ace pitcher. If they had any chance of resigning CC it'd be a much better deal, but as is I'd much rather get the six years of a player than the half year of a pitcher and unless the pitcher is the one thing that hands them a World Series, I don't like the deal (especially for a small market team that needs to value young players in their first six years of major league service time more than larger markets).

Edited July 8, 2008 by Felix

[iamshack]

A sandwich pick at the end of the round doesn't replace Matt LaPorta, who was the seventh overall pick.

 

They gave up six years of a player who is going to hit the majors in a year or two for a half a year of an ace pitcher. If they had any chance of resigning CC it'd be a much better deal, but as is I'd much rather get the six years of a player than the half year of a pitcher and unless the pitcher is the one thing that hands them a World Series, I don't like the deal (especially for a small market team that needs to value young players in their first six years of major league service time more than larger markets).

 

I understand what you're saying here, but your premise is almost as if there are no more players available to draft. As if they can't just draft another player next season that they will control for 6 years. Certainly LaPorta is well-regarded and more of a certainty at this stage in his career than the player they will draft next June with their first compensation pick, the difference is not that far off.

 

I think Cleveland actually should have gotten more.

[Dick Allen]

I understand what you're saying here, but your premise is almost as if there are no more players available to draft. As if they can't just draft another player next season that they will control for 6 years. Certainly LaPorta is well-regarded and more of a certainty at this stage in his career than the player they will draft next June with their first compensation pick, the difference is not that far off.

 

I think Cleveland actually should have gotten more.

Its hard to say what other teams would have been offering. Draft picks cost a lot of money for a lot of speculation and projection. Getting minor leaguers who have already been paid and have shown an ability to be good is a lot better than a couple of picks IMO. Plus they shed the $5 or $6 million they were to pay CC for the rest of this year, so they wind up with probably $10 million saved considering Sabathia's salary and signing bonuses and better young players than they would have had with the draft picks. I think its a good deal for Cleveland.

 

[iamshack]

Its hard to say what other teams would have been offering. Draft picks cost a lot of money for a lot of speculation and projection. Getting minor leaguers who have already been paid and have shown an ability to be good is a lot better than a couple of picks IMO. Plus they shed the $5 or $6 million they were to pay CC for the rest of this year, so they wind up with probably $10 million saved considering Sabathia's salary and signing bonuses and better young players than they would have had with the draft picks. I think its a good deal for Cleveland.

 

Yeah, the money is a good point, Dick. Especially for a team like Cleveland that is very financially responsible. However, it's July 8. Who says they couldn't have held him for a few weeks? I have a hard time guessing that no one would have stepped up between now and the deadline. But then again, who knows.

[YASNY]

I think it's good deal for both teams. The Tribe is out of it so they restocked at no real cost, since they'd lose CC after the season. The Brew Crew have a legit shot at the brass ring for the first time in along time, and they sent their fans a huge message with this deal. When you are a small market team, you don't let opps like this pass.

[chitownsportsfan]

A sandwich pick at the end of the round doesn't replace Matt LaPorta, who was the seventh overall pick.

 

They gave up six years of a player who is going to hit the majors in a year or two for a half a year of an ace pitcher. If they had any chance of resigning CC it'd be a much better deal, but as is I'd much rather get the six years of a player than the half year of a pitcher and unless the pitcher is the one thing that hands them a World Series, I don't like the deal (especially for a small market team that needs to value young players in their first six years of major league service time more than larger markets).

 

How many more tickets will they sell now? How much payroll will they add in the offseason because of those tickets? How many more wins will it get them next year? How many more fans will that bring in? It's a great feedback loop, one that the Sox started when they won the the WS and upped themselves into the top 5-7 payrolls.

 

There are more variables to this move then just a pure talent for talent swap and that's why I think the Brewers come out winners.

[Felix]

I understand what you're saying here, but your premise is almost as if there are no more players available to draft. As if they can't just draft another player next season that they will control for 6 years. Certainly LaPorta is well-regarded and more of a certainty at this stage in his career than the player they will draft next June with their first compensation pick, the difference is not that far off.

 

I think Cleveland actually should have gotten more.

No, my premise is that they won't be able to get the same type of talent in the draft that they had in LaPorta. He was a 7th overall pick and has played like it since coming into the majors. They can't replace that with a sandwich pick. Yes, they can get a talented player still, but it's not replacing LaPorta in either talent or certainty.

 

I see why Milwaukee did it, but I don't agree with their reasoning. That being said, I might feel different if I was in their shoes and hadn't been to the playoffs in nearly two decades.

[iamshack]

No, my premise is that they won't be able to get the same type of talent in the draft that they had in LaPorta. He was a 7th overall pick and has played like it since coming into the majors. They can't replace that with a sandwich pick. Yes, they can get a talented player still, but it's not replacing LaPorta in either talent or certainty.

 

I see why Milwaukee did it, but I don't agree with their reasoning. That being said, I might feel different if I was in their shoes and hadn't been to the playoffs in nearly two decades.

 

What has LaPorta accomplished for the Brewers that this future pick might not? It's ridiculous to say that whatever player they get with that pick cannot be as good as LaPorta, especially considering LaPorta has not had an mlb at-bat yet.

[Felix]

How many more tickets will they sell now? How much payroll will they add in the offseason because of those tickets? How many more wins will it get them next year? How many more fans will that bring in? It's a great feedback loop, one that the Sox started when they won the the WS and upped themselves into the top 5-7 payrolls.

 

There are more variables to this move then just a pure talent for talent swap and that's why I think the Brewers come out winners.

Which is why if it guaranteed them a World Series ring, I think it's an awesome move. It would bring in a lot of money for the franchise and would allow them to spend more money on players, although I doubt that they would do that. However, I think they need much more than just Sabathia to make a run at it, and giving up that much talent for a rental is just too much in my opinion.

[Felix]

What has LaPorta accomplished for the Brewers that this future pick might not? It's ridiculous to say that whatever player they get with that pick cannot be as good as LaPorta, especially considering LaPorta has not had an mlb at-bat yet.

He's actually done things in the minor leagues to show that he might not flame out completely. No, he's not a guaranteed thing, but he's much more guaranteed than a player that they don't even know will sign, let alone produce in the minors well enough to make the majors.

 

I'm not saying that the picks can't be as good as LaPorta, I'm saying its unlikely that they will be. LaPorta was a top 10 talent when he was drafted and anyone that the Brewers take with theirs pick will not be a top 10 talent coming into the draft. Does it mean that they won't be as good as LaPorta? Not really, but it means they're much more likely to have a lower ceiling than he does.

[harfman77]

Cleveland has made a deal like this before in 2002:

 

Cleveland sent Colon, minor league pitcher Tim Drew and cash to the Expos for Lee Stevens and three prospects: pitcher Cliff Lee, outfielder Grady Sizemore and top prospect Brandon Phillips, a shortstop.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0627/1399893.html

 

I am actually surprised that the Brewers didn't ask for Borowski to be included in the trade as they need another bullpen arm and there is little risk there.

 

This is a great deal for Cleveland for a rental player.

 

AJ Burnett is not a good answer for the Sox, however I would like to see if there is a way to upgrade Contreras before the deadline, but there really isn't alot out there that will fit the bill and matchup well prospect wise with Sox. Harden is always an injury waiting to happen and the price is too steep, Blanton has been bad this year, Bedard is proving to be a headcase, Oswalt will not likely waive his NTC, Harang could be an option but he hasn't pitched like himself this season either.

[Chisoxfn]

In that deal, both Sizemore and Phillips were considered upper echelon prospects (Phillips was the grand-old prize) while Cliff Lee was considered a good prospect who already had some major league experience. Basically put, I guess you can compare this trade to that one, but just note that the other prospects given up aren't as highly thought of as Sizemore and Lee were (Phillips and LaPorta are on the same level though).

[iamshack]

In that deal, both Sizemore and Phillips were considered upper echelon prospects (Phillips was the grand-old prize) while Cliff Lee was considered a good prospect who already had some major league experience. Basically put, I guess you can compare this trade to that one, but just note that the other prospects given up aren't as highly thought of as Sizemore and Lee were (Phillips and LaPorta are on the same level though).

 

Are you sure, Jason? I seem to remember Sizemore being sort of a mediocre prospect in that deal, as he was struggling a bit at A ball at the time?

[Chisoxfn]

Are you sure, Jason? I seem to remember Sizemore being sort of a mediocre prospect in that deal, as he was struggling a bit at A ball at the time?

He was struggling at the time of the deal but entering that season was very highly touted and still was considered a very talented individual (big signing bonus in the draft, etc).

[harfman77]

In that deal, both Sizemore and Phillips were considered upper echelon prospects (Phillips was the grand-old prize) while Cliff Lee was considered a good prospect who already had some major league experience. Basically put, I guess you can compare this trade to that one, but just note that the other prospects given up aren't as highly thought of as Sizemore and Lee were (Phillips and LaPorta are on the same level though).

 

I would say that Lee and Jackson are at similar points in their careers, Jackson had some success in the majors last season, like Lee did in Montreal. From what I have heard LaPorta, Bryson is pretty highly thought of as well with his 11.9 K/9 and 3.5:1 K/BB ratio. And the PTBN Taylor Green was the Brewers farm systems player of the year last season and is mashing again this year with an .813 OPS. I think that this trade could be every bit as good as the Colon trade if the players develop. At the time of the trade Sizemore was a huge project, great athlete with no power and incosistent contact.

[shipps]

Neither Konerko or Thome had major back surgery in the off season. Crede looks really stiff out at 3B, and it's starting to show on the stat sheet.

Even worse it is showing on defense.