Harden to Cubs

[whitesoxfan101]

Gallagher will be better than Gaudin by the end of the year IMO, that's the one thing I disagree with you on Jason. However, I look at this trade in two parts:

 

Gallagher/Harden

Murton, Patterson, Donaldson/Gaudin

 

The trade will truly be evaluated based on how part 1 goes, but part 2 could be very important too. Jason is dead on in that Murton and Patterson could help the A's, but they wouldn't have really helped the Cubs. As I can get my brain to work more clearly and look at this deal, I can see why both sides did this and it could work out for both of them.

Edited July 8, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[daa84]

This makes no sense what so ever.

what doesnt make sense? what i meant to say was that even if the sox wanted to get harden (which we clearly dont) or any other player for that matter...we have very little that we could offer that would top the weak crop of players that the cubs gave....maybe poreda anderson and richar are comparable to gallagher murton and patterson, but you can easily make a case for each of those cubs players over the sox players...

 

i was simply commenting on how bad our system is

Edited July 8, 2008 by daa84

[Frankensteiner]

Just for argument's sake, could the Sox have put together a better package than that with our minor leaguers? Not that I would necessarily want them to do this, but I keep hearing the Sox don't have the ammo to make a big trade. I thought both Cleveland and Oakland sold way low, especially the A's.

 

I think it's a great trade for the Cubs.

[whitesoxfan101]

If this is all it took to get Harden, we probably could have come up with something if we really wanted to. But with our starting pitching/pitching in general, and our lack of system depth, it obviously wouldn't have been worth the risk.

[justBLAZE]

Cubs acted quick after Brewers got CC.

 

It definitely makes them a stronger contender right now, which is great move on their part.

[RockRaines]

I feel like the A's could have done better, but what do I know. Leads me to believe that no one else believed Harden would be healthy.

They could have. The cubs threw in a bunch of crap and Gallagher. He was the true prize in the deal. The cubs may have been better off just keeping him in the rotation or the pen.

[RockRaines]

Just for argument's sake, could the Sox have put together a better package than that with our minor leaguers? Not that I would necessarily want them to do this, but I keep hearing the Sox don't have the ammo to make a big trade. I thought both Cleveland and Oakland sold way low, especially the A's.

 

I think it's a great trade for the Cubs.

Most likely. Murton and patterson are worth basically nothing. All we would have to do is match value of Gallagher.

[Flash Tizzle]

Oakland is 3.5 games out of the wild card lead. Certainly not in a position to sell, and neither is this package something I believe Beane just HAD to deal Harden for.

 

When you factor in his last two decisions, and a history of injuries, Beane must have felt this game of waiting for Harden to remain healthy -- and reach his potential -- was lessening his value.

 

The Cubs, as it has been previously discussed, aren't exactly going to regret dealing any of the prospects involved. Especially with their payroll. With their position atop the standings, and Sabathia's fat ass pitching across the border, there was nothing much to lose with acquiring Harden.

 

 

[whitesoxbrian]

I can't believe I just heard Dan Plesac say Harden will eat up innings.

[whitesoxfan101]

I can't believe I just heard Dan Plesac say Harden will eat up innings.

The media is going to be creaming themselves, so get used to it. It's worth the risk for the Cubs, and it could be a great deal, but Harden is such a health risk that you can't say it for sure. I wouldn't trust Billy Beane when it comes to the health of pitchers (SEE: Koch, Billy and Mulder, Mark). The Cubs HAD to make this deal though, they needed a couple more arms and with what Oakland was willing to take, had to do it. The fact they got the A's to throw in Gaudin was huge, because instead of an epic risk that could completely bomb out, at least they got a pretty decent arm in Gaudin in case Harden gets hurt, which is probably a 50/50 chance.

Edited July 8, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[fathom]

So I didn't know Harden has a 7 mil team option for next year. This is a fantastic deal for the Cubs then, as this isn't a rental. My brother had a chance to talk to a scout tonight, and he was shocked the A's didn't get more than this for Harden AND Gaudin. The scout thought Harden must be hurt.

[RockRaines]

BTW, its a good deal for the Cubs. It's about this year and next for the Cubs, and this only helps their chances. They didn't take away any major pieces of the puzzle with this trade, and any momentum the Brewers got with CC looks to have leveled off with this deal.

 

Cubs should be excited, and pray they have better luck than they did with Prior.

Its a STEAL for the Cubs. I never thought I would see Beane raped so badly by Hendry. Beane gave up 2 nice arms for a pile of junk and a middle of the rotation guy. Not only that, but the Cubs kept all of their good bargaining chips for a run at a bat as well. Wow.

 

The only thing that could kill this is if Harden goes to the DL for the rest of the year only a few starts in.

[fathom]

I can't believe other teams out there, like the Dodgers, couldn't top this.

[whitesoxfan101]

I can't believe other teams out there, like the Dodgers, couldn't top this.

 

You wonder if Harden is either hurt (which is possible with how his stuff looked Sunday) or if Beane is just paranoid Harden could get hurt at any moment and he'll get nothing (which is also possible with Harden).

Edited July 8, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[G&T]

So I didn't know Harden has a 7 mil team option for next year. This is a fantastic deal for the Cubs then, as this isn't a rental. My brother had a chance to talk to a scout tonight, and he was shocked the A's didn't get more than this for Harden AND Gaudin. The scout thought Harden must be hurt.

 

The name that pops into my head is Freddie Garcia. I guess only time will tell.

[Chisoxfn]

what doesnt make sense? what i meant to say was that even if the sox wanted to get harden (which we clearly dont) or any other player for that matter...we have very little that we could offer that would top the weak crop of players that the cubs gave....maybe poreda anderson and richar are comparable to gallagher murton and patterson, but you can easily make a case for each of those cubs players over the sox players...

 

i was simply commenting on how bad our system is

Richar is comparable to Patterson. Fields would be better than Murton (BA would be a little less valuable than Murton). Broadway would be a less valuable than Gallagher.

 

So technically speaking, Richar, Fields, Broadway would be similar value and would net you Harden/Gaudin (if the A's had interest and needs for those particular positions). I'm not concerned about the 4th guy as they didn't make the trade to get the minor leaguer (and the sox could easily inserted in Joe "Somebody" as the 4th guy).

[whitesoxbrian]

The media is going to be creaming themselves, so get used to it. It's worth the risk for the Cubs, and it could be a great deal, but Harden is such a health risk that you can't say it for sure. I wouldn't trust Billy Beane when it comes to the health of pitchers (SEE: Koch, Billy and Mulder, Mark). The Cubs HAD to make this deal though, they needed a couple more arms and with what Oakland was willing to take, had to do it. The fact they got the A's to throw in Gaudin was huge, because instead of an epic risk that could completely bomb out, at least they got a pretty decent arm in Gaudin in case Harden gets hurt, which is probably a 50/50 chance.

That's true. It could turn out to be a 15 game winner (Gallagher) for a RP (Gaudin).

[whitesoxfan101]

Meh, I don't think it's a run away steal, but the Cubs got a good deal. I still think Patterson can be servicable, and I think Murton is really going to thrive out in Oakland. I have always been a Murton fan, and I'm happy he is going to get a real shot to play out in Oakland. However, his value was at an all time low, and the A's are paying a lot for the package.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. It's a steal in the sense the Cubs had no use for Patterson or Murton, but both could be solid contributors for the A's, so it's not a fleecing. Just like Gaudin could be and was a solid contributor for the A's, but he was stuck in their bullpen since they had no room for him in the rotation. What Gallagher does long term and what Harden does short term will determine the fate of this trade, as I think Murton/Patterson and Gaudin will wash each other out.

Edited July 8, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[Brian]

I'm starting to wonder how Beane keeps his job.

[Metz]

My guess is the Cubs put Marshall down to AAA, Gaudin goes to the pen, Marquis' start gets pushed back to saturday and Harden starts for the Cubs on Friday against the Giants.

[Flash Tizzle]

The only thing that could kill this is if Harden goes to the DL for the rest of the year only a few starts in.

They have to be anticipating it. Perhaps they'll see what Harden will provide now, take it carefully with him entering August and September, then have him healthy (which for Harden seems to be 5-6 starts) and throw him at opponents down the stretch/into the playoffs.

 

It appears to be an October move more than anything. The possibility of Zambrano/Harden in the playoffs looks a hell of a lot better than Zambrano/Dempster. No one in the right mind would acquire Harden, expecting him to make all his starts between now and the end of the season.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Flash Tizzle

[GoodAsGould]

Definitely think the Cubs got the better deal in this trade as Gaudin is pretty solid himself. Im a little upset Gallagher was traded because from watching a few games seemedlike he had great potential and would have been a fun guy to watch since he doesnt grab his nuts all the time like that other Cubs pitcher. If Harden/Zambrano are healthy when playoffs roll around thats a pretty nasty combo id take over the Webb/Haren one.

[whitesoxbrian]

They have to be anticipating it. Perhaps they'll see what Harden will provide now, take it carefully with him entering August and September, then have him healthy (which for Harden seems to be 5-6 starts) and throw him at opponents down the stretch/into the playoffs.

 

It appears to be an October move more than anything. No one in the right mind would acquire Harden anticipating him to make all his starts between now and the end of the season. The possibility of Zambrano/Harden in the playoffs looks a hell of a lot better than Zambrano/Dempster.

But Sabathia/Sheets just looks so much better. As does Webb/Haren.

 

BTW- does anybody else get annoyed when GMs and media call him Sa-Baith-e-a? Baith? Try Bath, dopes.

[whitesoxfan101]

It appears to be an October move more than anything. The possibility of Zambrano/Harden in the playoffs looks a hell of a lot better than Zambrano/Dempster. No one in the right mind would acquire Harden, expecting him to make all his starts between now and the end of the season.

 

Very true. The entire trade may come down to if Harden is healthy in the month of October.

[EvilJester99]

God listening to the people on CTL is going to get annoying...the way they are stroking cause the Scrubs got Harden.