The Democrat Thread

[lostfan]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm just not willing to accept "yes it was there" as some kind of self-asserting fact when at the time I'd read nothing to the effect that such a thing was possible. 4 years wasn't that long ago.

 

Also iirc, GM didn't actually want to go through bankruptcy (something they probably should've done a couple years prior when the availability of financing wouldn't have been a problem, and it would've gotten a lot of dead weight off their books) and the government basically strong-armed them into it.

[Balta1701]

This is really a fascinating graph...inflation-adjusted spending on Presidential races, back through the Civil War. Turns out...when you adjust for inflation, the explosion in campaign spending really didn't start until 2000 and it was 2004 before it really took off.

 

I don't know what to make of that, but I woudln't have guessed it.

 

[mr_genius]

This is really a fascinating graph...inflation-adjusted spending on Presidential races, back through the Civil War. Turns out...when you adjust for inflation, the explosion in campaign spending really didn't start until 2000 and it was 2004 before it really took off.

 

I don't know what to make of that, but I woudln't have guessed it.

 

 

Obama is a bribe collecting machine. the best of all time at cashing bribe checks.

[Soxbadger]

What does it matter?

 

The richest are paying both sides, they win no matter what. Maybe we should create rules that stop all campaign contributions, ban all political ads.

[StrangeSox]

This whole "mandatory invasive medical procedure before an abortion to shame and humiliate women" in Virginia keeps getting more and more disgusting.

 

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared...ginia_wants.php

[GoSox05]

This whole "mandatory invasive medical procedure before an abortion to shame and humiliate women" in Virginia keeps getting more and more disgusting.

 

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared...ginia_wants.php

 

"After a certain point, talking to them is pretty much useless. You just have to try and keep them as far away from power over your own life as possible."

 

 

 

That pretty much sums it up for me.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Dow passes 13,000. This is either:

A.A fluke.

B.Obama's fault because 13 is an unlucky number.

C.Look over there!Family values!

— Damon Lindelof (@DamonLindelof) February 21, 2012

 

If in 3 yrs a Republican had gotten Bin Laden, Qaddafi & brought Dow back to 13,000, they'd give him Nancy Reagan and Monticello.

— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) February 21, 2012

Edited February 21, 2012 by Athomeboy_2000

[Balta1701]

New Law Requires Women To Name Baby, Paint Nursery Before Getting Abortion

[StrangeSox]

I'd give pretty good odds on some gop state rep thinking this is real and trying to copy it.

[Balta1701]

 

[CanOfCorn]

Obama is a bribe collecting machine. the best of all time at cashing bribe checks.

 

Wow...just, wow.

[Rex Kickass]

More Voter Fraud, this time in the actual legislature.

 

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/02/...ber.html?ref=tw

 

Wisconsin state Rep. Joel Kleefisch ® was caught on video voting on behalf of an absent lawmaker despite a rule that only the members present in the Assembly Chamber may vote.

 

WTMJ confronted Kleefisch who responded, "It depends on how you interpret the rule. The rule says you have to be present in the chamber. The bathroom counts as the chamber. And the parlor counts as a chamber if you are going to eat."

[StrangeSox]

Voter id would have fixed that

[southsider2k5]

Voter id would have fixed that

 

The funny thing is that is why he got caught. If they got to vote in complete anonymity, no one would have ever known the difference.

[StrangeSox]

The funny thing is that is why he got caught. If they got to vote in complete anonymity, no one would have ever known the difference.

Good thing no one votes anonymously!

[Balta1701]

Steven Rattner:

As a presidential aspirant, Mr. Romney evidently hasn’t felt a need to be consistent or specific as to what should have been done to address the collapse of the auto industry starting in late 2008. But the gist is that the government should have stayed on the sidelines and allowed the companies to go through what he calls “managed bankruptcies,” financed by private capital.

 

That sounds like a wonderfully sensible approach — except that it’s utter fantasy. In late 2008 and early 2009, when G.M. and Chrysler had exhausted their liquidity, every scrap of private capital had fled to the sidelines.

 

I know this because the administration’s auto task force, for which I was the lead adviser, spoke diligently to all conceivable providers of funds, and not one had the slightest interest in financing those companies on any terms. If Mr. Romney disagrees, he should come forward with specific names of willing investors in place of empty rhetoric. I predict that he won’t be able to, because there aren’t any.

 

Without government financing — initiated by President George W. Bush in December 2008 — the two companies would not have been able to pursue Chapter 11 reorganization. Instead they would have been forced to cease production, close their doors and lay off virtually all workers once their coffers ran dry.

 

Those shutdowns would have reverberated through the entire auto sector, causing innumerable suppliers almost immediately to stop operating too.

 

Despite the relative health of its balance sheet, even Ford would have been forced to close temporarily, because critical parts would have become unavailable. And service providers — trucking companies, restaurants and more — would have been severely affected.

 

More than a million jobs would have been lost, at least for a time. Michigan and the entire industrial Midwest would have been devastated.

 

I consider myself an ardent capitalist, and well recognize the risks of government intervention, particularly the “moral hazard” of rewarding failure and the scary prospect of politics’ entering private sector decision-making.

 

But when markets fail, as they did for both autos and banks in 2008, government should have the ability — in fact, the obligation — to step in.

[StrangeSox]

More propaganda

[Jenksismyhero]

Steven Rattner:

 

Man that sucks for those million workers, but too the f*** bad. It's so awesome how this world has completely mind-f***ed the masses. The aristocracy has gotten to a point where in order to preserve the aristocracy (lest the little people go hungry without their servant roles!) society must save them and KEEP them in the aristocrasy. What a bunch of s***.

 

/rant

 

Edit: I would rather have spent tens of billions keeping the unemployed on unemployment than allow these s***hole companies to keep their doors open. That goes for all of the financial institutions too.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

I would have expected the above from someone more likely to be an #OWS supporter, not someone who has strongly supported the idea that America is a meritocracy and that people who are poor generally deserve it.

 

edit: Is GM still a s***hole company now that's it is generating profits and has reclaimed the #1 spot? What do you estimate the overall impact of the entire domestic auto industry (GM, Chrysler, all of their suppliers and then bringing all domestic auto production down with it) collapsing to be on the economy as a whole? I'd guess that we'd still be above 15% unemployment.

Edited February 24, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

I would have expected the above from someone more likely to be an #OWS supporter, not someone who has strongly supported the idea that America is a meritocracy and that people who are poor generally deserve it.

 

I have always agreed with certain aspects of the Occupy movement. Just like I agreed with certain parts of Tea Party movement. Both borrow heavily from the libertarian mindset.

 

And really it fits pretty well together - if you s*** in your bed, you gotta lay in it. Society isn't there to maintain the status quo when you don't deserve it. If you're a drug addict deadbeat that is dumb enough to have 3 kids you can't afford, why should society help you out? If you're a greedy millionaire that lost everything from piss poor management/terrible decision making, why should society help you out?

[Jenksismyhero]

I would have expected the above from someone more likely to be an #OWS supporter, not someone who has strongly supported the idea that America is a meritocracy and that people who are poor generally deserve it.

 

edit: Is GM still a s***hole company now that's it is generating profits and has reclaimed the #1 spot? What do you estimate the overall impact of the entire domestic auto industry (GM, Chrysler, all of their suppliers and then bringing all domestic auto production down with it) collapsing to be on the economy as a whole? I'd guess that we'd still be above 15% unemployment.

 

"Well sir, I'm an AMAZING investment banker now. I mean, 3 years ago I lost all of my client's money, but now i'm back in the green!!"

[Jenksismyhero]

Yes, i'm being a bit extreme here, but it does seem hilarious to me that we've done nothing in this situation over the last few years but prop up s***ty business models/practices simply because they were too big to fail. If I start my own company and I make dumb mistakes, the government isn't gonna rush in to provide me with the necessary capital that no one else will give me just so I can keep going and possibly fix it.

 

And what's worse, we've written off what, like 25 billion (and growing) as a result of this? WTF not DEMAND payment if they're so profitable now. I could care less that it's the lowered value of a stock price. That's what we lost. Give it back, with interest.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

I have always agreed with certain aspects of the Occupy movement. Just like I agreed with certain parts of Tea Party movement. Both borrow heavily from the libertarian mindset.

 

I feel pretty confident in saying that the #OWS movement as a whole strongly rejects libertarianism since it generally results in a propertarian minarchy and strict social stratification, at least according to liberal and leftist philosophy.

 

And really it fits pretty well together - if you s*** in your bed, you gotta lay in it. Society isn't there to maintain the status quo when you don't deserve it. If you're a drug addict deadbeat that is dumb enough to have 3 kids you can't afford, why should society help you out? If you're a greedy millionaire that lost everything from piss poor management/terrible decision making, why should society help you out?

 

I'd say it's better for society to make sure the economy doesn't completely collapse, putting millions out of work and leading to widespread suffering during a severe economic depression than it is to make sure a few people get punished for being "bad." But AFAIK, GM and Chrysler did clean house and the investors weren't the ones that were really bailed out, so you should be happy that a million jobs were saved.

 

I'd also like to note that it was liberals and leftists pushing for tight controls on executive bonuses and compensation with the right (conservatives and libertarians) pushing back and decrying the end of capitalism.

[StrangeSox]

"Well sir, I'm an AMAZING investment banker now. I mean, 3 years ago I lost all of my client's money, but now i'm back in the green!!"

 

"GM" is not a person.

[StrangeSox]

Yes, i'm being a bit extreme here, but it does seem hilarious to me that we've done nothing in this situation over the last few years but prop up s***ty business models/practices simply because they were too big to fail. If I start my own company and I make dumb mistakes, the government isn't gonna rush in to provide me with the necessary capital that no one else will give me just so I can keep going and possibly fix it.

 

The collapse of jenks, inc. won't cause national unemployment to rise by several percentage points.

 

I agree 100% that, at least in the financial sector, many people have undeservedly made or expanded vast personal fortunes off of bailout money and that no one is seriously being prosecuted for the crimes that caused this collapse. Far too much money was given out with little or no control.

 

And what's worse, we've written off what, like 25 billion (and growing) as a result of this? WTF not DEMAND payment if they're so profitable now. I could care less that it's the lowered value of a stock price. That's what we lost. Give it back, with interest.

 

Rattner said in December that the deals will likely cost the government $14B, all told.

 

Balance that against the tax receipts generated from not losing 1M+ jobs and corporate taxes.