BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 War crimes are war crimes Kap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) War crimes are war crimes Kap. They are not war crimes. But you sure as hell want them to be. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) They are not war crimes. Torture is not a war crime? You learn something new everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:05 AM) Torture is not a war crime? You learn something new everyday. It is not torture. But you want it to be. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:06 AM) It is not torture. Like Sullivan said...go volunteer to be sleep deprived for several weeks, thrown into a wall repeatedly and water boarded over 100 times and tell me you weren't tortured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:08 AM) Like Sullivan said...go volunteer to be sleep deprived for several weeks, thrown into a wall repeatedly and water boarded over 100 times and tell me you weren't tortured. Why is it that a bunch of our own troops are waterboarded for training so they can know what to expect if they get caught? OMG! NOW we are "torturing" our own! WAR CRIMES! And I don't need to be "tortured" because I haven't committed my life to killing thousands of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Why did we execute Japanese who were waterboarding our soldiers? And which one is it? If waterboarding is so safe why is it used? Sounds ineffective the way you put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:13 AM) Why did we execute Japanese who were waterboarding our soldiers? And which one is it? If waterboarding is so safe why is it used? Sounds ineffective the way you put it. No one said it was "safe". But it is effective in certain circumstances. But you all want it to be something so bad you can't see through the rest. You all have such a hard on to get even with Bush officials that you simply cannot fathom that we might have gotten information that saved lives. You don't want that to be true, because then your arguments don't mean as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) No one said it was "safe". But it is effective in certain circumstances. But you all want it to be something so bad you can't see through the rest. You all have such a hard on to get even with Bush officials that you simply cannot fathom that we might have gotten information that saved lives. You don't want that to be true, because then your arguments don't mean as much. Could we have gotten that information without torturing, er, sorry, "enhanced interrogating" them? Was the "harsh treatment" really necessary to get the information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:16 AM) No one said it was "safe". But it is effective in certain circumstances. But you all want it to be something so bad you can't see through the rest. You all have such a hard on to get even with Bush officials that you simply cannot fathom that we might have gotten information that saved lives. You don't want that to be true, because then your arguments don't mean as much. I would want Obama and any other president under the microscope if they were advocating torture. It's not a Bush thing for me. It's about right vs wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 11:17 AM) Could we have gotten that information without torturing, er, sorry, "enhanced interrogating" them? Was the "harsh treatment" really necessary to get the information? Unless you're Sam Beckett, that question can never be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:17 AM) Could we have gotten that information without torturing, er, sorry, "enhanced interrogating" them? Was the "harsh treatment" really necessary to get the information? No one knows. They all want to think they know. Do you want to take the chance on thousands of lives? Again, we are talking about less then 5 people... and to make the leap that this is "war crimes" is pretty callous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) Do you want to take the chance on thousands of lives? Coming from the same crowd that is ok with warrantless phone tapping. Whatever it takes to protect us! What's next? Opening our mail? Installing video cameras in our homes? We need more Benjamin Franklin's... They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Coming from the same crowd that is ok with warrantless phone tapping. Whatever it takes to protect us! What's next? Opening our mail? Installing video cameras in our homes? We need more Benjamin Franklin's... What's next? Allowing someone who has already been a part of the murder of 3,000 people and was plotting for thousands more to be our friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:42 AM) What's next? Allowing someone who has already been a part of the murder of 3,000 people and was plotting for thousands more to be our friend? Right. We're asking them to be our friends. *face palm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:43 AM) Right. We're asking them to be our friends. *face palm* Let's just sit down and have a cup of coffee, make them comfortable, and hope they talk... that's pretty much being their friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Seriously guys, new thread time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:44 AM) Let's just sit down and have a cup of coffee, make them comfortable, and hope they talk... that's pretty much being their friend. Because there's only 2 options, waterboarding or having a cup of coffee with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 11:45 AM) Because there's only 2 options, waterboarding or having a cup of coffee with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:45 AM) Because there's only 2 options, waterboarding or having a cup of coffee with them. Read your own papers that you want to prosecute people over... they tried many things and only did waterboarding as a last resort, and only to 3 people. And it did get results, but just not in your precious documents that were blacked about on that part. My "friends" illustration is just as ludicrous as your "waterboarding is war crimes" is, it's the opposite extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) Read your own papers that you want to prosecute people over... they tried many things and only did waterboarding as a last resort, and only to 3 people. And it did get results, but just not in your precious documents that were blacked about on that part. My "friends" illustration is just as ludicrous as your "waterboarding is war crimes" is, it's the opposite extreme. Waterboarding + sleep deprevation + walling = torture in any book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (kapkomet @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 08:48 AM) Read your own papers that you want to prosecute people over... they tried many things and only did waterboarding as a last resort, and only to 3 people. And it did get results, but just not in your precious documents that were blacked about on that part. They by no means did any of this as a last resort, and in the same documents you want to cite they say that they didn't have enough time to finish and everything obtained under torture was in the process of being obtained by other means. Both the memo from the DNI last week and the Op-ed piece in the NYT say the exact same thing, and it is 100% in disagreement with what you're saying. You are choosing to take 1 paragraph out of context because it fits your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Gallup poll shows that 62% want to see either a criminal investigation or fact-finding independent panel for possible torture used in terror investigations. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:50 AM) Waterboarding + sleep deprevation + walling = torture in any book but it was just a fake wall and they wore collars to prevent whiplash. TOTALLY ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 24, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) They by no means did any of this as a last resort, and in the same documents you want to cite they say that they didn't have enough time to finish and everything obtained under torture was in the process of being obtained by other means. Both the memo from the DNI last week and the Op-ed piece in the NYT say the exact same thing, and it is 100% in disagreement with what you're saying. You are choosing to take 1 paragraph out of context because it fits your case. And there's more that hasn't been released. You all want to believe so bad "so Bush gets what's coming to them" that nothing else matters. You WANT it to be bad so it makes your case look better that Bush was an asshole. I keep seeing "right vs. wrong" and I just don't by it, or you all simply don't care about more Americans dying. Me saying that is as much of a strawman arguement as they could have gotten the information in different ways. You don't know, and I don't know. But you want to side on the hate Bush crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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