The Democrat Thread

[mr_genius]

Actually, more Democrats voted against the Iraq war than voted for it, by quite a bit IIRC.

 

 

nope. senate

 

29 yea

21 nay

[mr_genius]

I'm still not exactly sure who knew what about the Bush torture program or what they could have/did do about it, but I'd be happy to support an independent investigation by someone who could bring charges against anyone involved in the conspiracy to do so or cover it up.

 

I'll let you in on who knew about it, all the Dems and Republicans.

[mr_genius]

if you guys think the dems are clean on this stuff you really are f***ed up

[kapkomet]

if you guys think the dems are clean on this stuff you really are f***ed up

It doesn't give their cover for the "morality" involved.

 

It just pains you people to no end to know that there are NO leaders in this country who didn't know what was going on. There IS NO MORAL HIGH GROUND here. When you think you are on it, guess what? You're wrong. This "what's good for me is not good for the other" s*** is what the hell is wrong with our country. Sliding scales of "morality" here is just pathetic by those who want to think they know what "morality" is. THAT is a judgement call to which no one has an exact right answer, so I'll leave that be. But I will say, these people knew what was happening. ALL OF THEM.

 

SB, being an "evangelical" has NOTHING to do with what Dick Cheney is talking about. It's just a bad point in this debate, it's totally irrelevant, because it's not a "holy war" like NSS made it out, which is what my "give me a break" was referring to. A "new world order" doesn't have to be based on "armeggedon" as you put it, and it's not.

[Balta1701]

I'll let you in on who knew about it, all the Dems and Republicans.

Then they ought to go to jail.

[kapkomet]

Then they ought to go to jail.

Right, dude, like that is ever going to happen. Let's put in Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Dennis Hastert, Bush, Cheney, Powell (OMG!), Lugar, John Kerry, Boxer, Feingold, Dodd, I could go on and on - remember these people were on the foreign relations committee and you know damn well they knew what was going on. It's only convenient to bring all this up under cover of a Democrat president, some 5-6 years later? Please. By your logic, the top 50 people (loosely defined) in our government should go to jail.

 

Before you sit there and say "prove it", prove they didn't know. It's all a political shell game. I'll say it one more time. Move the f*** on. If you want your policy to be this, you've done it now, move on.

 

I could play more "morality cop" but it's probably a moot point by now.

[Balta1701]

Before you sit there and say "prove it", prove they didn't know. It's all a political shell game. I'll say it one more time. Move the f*** on. If you want your policy to be this, you've done it now, move on.

I can't prove it. But I'd love to be able to. Which is why we need an investigation. And no, we're not going to move on, because all that will happen is that some other President will decide that he wants to start a war with someone for some other B.S. reason and he'll decide torture is the easiest way to get there, and he'll realize that the last time a President did that, he and everyone involved got off scot-free.

[mr_genius]

Then they ought to go to jail.

 

sounds good to me

[KipWellsFan]

Kap,

 

I mean i hate to say it, but Cheney is an Evangelical. (Unless you are denying that he is one.)

 

And part of that belief is the Rapture, Armageddon and the coming of the anti-christ.

 

Now whether or not Cheney is actively trying to create those things is unprovable. But the fact he belongs to the religion, suggests that he wants them to happen and in order for them to happen there have to be certain occurrences (many of them extremely violent and brutal.)

 

I have never seen him speak against any of these things.

 

 

Ummmm, I kind of think Cheney is a little loonie, but jeeze... I don't think that's got a darned thing to do with it.

 

And SS2K, well played on Al Gore. I happen to think Gore's cause is more just but I feel you.

 

EDIT: And do you have a source for Cheney even being an evangelical?

Edited May 23, 2009 by KipWellsFan

[kapkomet]

Ummmm, I kind of think Cheney is a little loonie, but jeeze... I don't think that's got a darned thing to do with it.

 

And SS2K, well played on Al Gore. I happen to think Gore's cause is more just but I feel you.

 

EDIT: And do you have a source for Cheney even being an evangelical?

Thank you.

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

RNC: Nancy Pelosi = “p**** Galore"

She’s the 69-year-old speaker of the House of Representatives, second in the line of succession and the most powerful woman in U.S. history.

 

But when you see Nancy Pelosi, the Republican National Committee wants you to think “p**** Galore.”

 

 

At least that’s the takeaway from a video released by the committee this week – a video that puts Pelosi side-by-side with the aforementioned villainess from the 1964 James Bond film “Goldfinger.”

 

The RNC video, which begins with the speaker’s head in the iconic spy-series gun sight, implies that Pelosi has used her feminine wiles to dodge the truth about whether or not she was briefed by the CIA on the use of waterboarding in 2002. While the P-word is never mentioned directly, in one section the speaker appears in a split screen alongside the Bond nemesis – and the video’s tagline is “Democrats Galore.”

 

The wisdom of equating the first woman speaker of the House with a character whose first name also happens to be among the most vulgar terms for a part of the female anatomy might be debated – if the RNC were willing to do so, which it was not. An RNC spokesperson refused repeated requests by POLITICO to explain the point of the video, or the intended connection between Pelosi and Galore.

 

Maybe not what they intended to say... and the video has since been pulled.

[HuskyCaucasian]

The real Obama-bot...

Barack Obama was standing on a riser inside a warehouse here, delivering an inspirational speech about the blessings of freedom, when his left index finger began to twitch uncontrollably, unnerving his aides.

 

The nation’s 44th president was in obvious distress. At least it looked like him. But with silicone skin and a tangled nest of wires for veins, this Obama was a 21st-century reproduction.

 

More specifically, it was an audio-animatronic representation of the president, as imagined by the Walt Disney Company, and assembled with the direct involvement of the White House staff — and of Mr. Obama himself. The president supplied not just his measurements, but he also recorded that speech (which was initially drafted by a Disney writer) — and yet another recitation of the oath of office, this one in Disney high-definition sound.

 

In that Hollywood building here, the life-size, three-dimensional figure was being put through its final tune-up, its chin rising and hands gesturing in response to technicians, in preparation for shipment to the Hall of Presidents exhibit at Disney World in Orlando, Fla.

[Soxbadger]

Ummmm, I kind of think Cheney is a little loonie, but jeeze... I don't think that's got a darned thing to do with it.

 

And SS2K, well played on Al Gore. I happen to think Gore's cause is more just but I feel you.

 

EDIT: And do you have a source for Cheney even being an evangelical?

 

Cheney is listed as Methodist.

 

http://www.adherents.com/people/pc/Dick_Cheney.html

 

 

George Bush is also listed as a Methodist.

 

http://www.adherents.com/people/pb/George_W_Bush.html

 

From what I can tell methodism and evangelicalism have similar roots.

 

http://master.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1648

 

But then again, I already covered all of this by saying:

 

Are you sayiing that Cheney is not an evangelical?

 

Because thats fine if you just believe that he is using the term to get votes and that he doesnt really believe in it.

 

I personally dont believe he actually believes in it, and I think that he is using it to get support.

 

But thats just my personal opinion, there really is no way to prove what he actually believes as he does not speak much on the subject. Ive tried to find information, its just not there (or I dont want to put in the necessary time as I really dont care that much.)

 

So if you can find something that says Cheney is not a Methodist and does not believe in Methodism, feel free Id be interested to read it.

 

Now from a Methodist Website:

 

Where does the "Rapture" fit into the United Methodist realm of beliefs?

 

Methodism has a lot of diverse viewpoints among its churches and members, and so I have no doubts that many pastors and churches are tuning in to this speculative phenomenon. However, it is not central to our approach to discipleship and our theological framework.

 

The problem is that it is inconclusive. It does not say one way or the other, just that its not central.

 

So is it possible Cheney believes it?

 

Yes

 

Is it possible Cheney doesnt believe it?

 

Yes

 

What is my opinion?

 

Cheney doesnt really believe in it, and is just using religion to get people to support him.

 

Not sure what is so controversial about that.

 

 

[kapkomet]

Cheney is listed as Methodist.

 

http://www.adherents.com/people/pc/Dick_Cheney.html

 

 

George Bush is also listed as a Methodist.

 

http://www.adherents.com/people/pb/George_W_Bush.html

 

From what I can tell methodism and evangelicalism have similar roots.

 

http://master.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1648

 

But then again, I already covered all of this by saying:

 

 

 

I personally dont believe he actually believes in it, and I think that he is using it to get support.

 

But thats just my personal opinion, there really is no way to prove what he actually believes as he does not speak much on the subject. Ive tried to find information, its just not there (or I dont want to put in the necessary time as I really dont care that much.)

 

So if you can find something that says Cheney is not a Methodist and does not believe in Methodism, feel free Id be interested to read it.

 

Now from a Methodist Website:

 

 

 

The problem is that it is inconclusive. It does not say one way or the other, just that its not central.

 

So is it possible Cheney believes it?

 

Yes

 

Is it possible Cheney doesnt believe it?

 

Yes

 

What is my opinion?

 

Cheney doesnt really believe in it, and is just using religion to get people to support him.

 

Not sure what is so controversial about that.

Because it has nothing to do with the subject of his speech the other day?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Where have I ever said that it had anything to do with his speech?

 

My comments are about what he believes and what makes him as a person, not about some speech.

 

I really dont believe I have even used the word "speech" in any of my posts, and to be honest I didnt even see the speech (or Obama's). I could not care less about either Obama's or Cheney's speech.

 

Talk is cheap.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Soxbadger

[KipWellsFan]

Where have I ever said that it had anything to do with his speech?

 

My comments are about what he believes and what makes him as a person, not about some speech.

 

I really dont believe I have even used the word "speech" in any of my posts, and to be honest I didnt even see the speech (or Obama's). I could not care less about either Obama's or Cheney's speech.

 

Talk is cheap.

 

Well, alright, but here's my belief. Cheney's positions on national security are extreme but they have nothing or little to do with his faith... if he has any.

[Soxbadger]

I dont know Dick Cheney and I really couldnt tell you what his motivations are for anything to be honest.

 

I assume that he is like most humans in that his interests are self-serving (like Obama), so maybe its fame, fortune, religion or who the hell knows.

 

Bottom line is that if Cheney and I were to be sitting in a room together, I doubt we would agree on most things.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

I assume that he is like most humans in that his interests are self-serving (like Obama), so maybe its fame, fortune, religion or who the hell knows.

Link.

 

Just sayin'.

[HuskyCaucasian]

<!--quoteo(post=1900899:date=May 23, 2009 -> 10:35 AM:name=Athomeboy_2000)-->

<!--quotec-->RNC: Nancy Pelosi = “p**** Galore"

 

 

Maybe not what they intended to say... and the video has since been pulled.

Video is back up under a different URL:

 

Is anyone else bothered that the RNC just "shot" the 2nd in line to the presidency?

Edited May 23, 2009 by Athomeboy_2000

[Balta1701]

This was one of my friends' facebook status last night:

(name omitted) thinks it a strange feeling to go to bed with my husband tonight, both of us wondering if we'll still be married tomorrow. It's an awful feeling knowing there are people out there who want us legally forced apart.

[lostfan]

So the court upheld Prop 8 after all - as dumb as I think Prop 8 was, I actually agree with the ruling. If the people voted, and effectively changed the state's constitution, how could you say it was unconstitutional? It's there to stay, unfortunately.

 

edit: And the gay couples who were married before while it was legal are grandfathered, their marriages aren't nullified.

Edited May 26, 2009 by lostfan

[Balta1701]

So the court upheld Prop 8 after all - as dumb as I think Prop 8 was, I actually agree with the ruling. If the people voted, and effectively changed the state's constitution, how could you say it was unconstitutional? It's there to stay, unfortunately.

 

edit: And the gay couples who were married before while it was legal are grandfathered, their marriages aren't nullified.

It's not going to be there to stay for long, frankly.

[Cknolls]

It's not going to be there to stay for long, frankly.

 

 

Why has ACORN been hired by the pro gay marriage crowd?

[Balta1701]

Why has ACORN been hired by the pro gay marriage crowd?

You guys really are obsessed with them aren't you?

[southsider2k5]

You guys really are obsessed with them aren't you?

 

Kinda like the left wing with Fox.