The Democrat Thread

[kapkomet]

except they aren't gaining traction.

To you, because you are for Obama. That's been pretty clear throughout.

 

I still need to get off my duff and create that thread, because I was very serious about wanting to understand the insight of an Obama backer. Seriously, and no judgements ...

 

 

 

[kapkomet]

I guarantee that's the off shore drilling because when people are asked:

 

do you think Obama is arrogant?

Yes 36%

No 64%

 

Do you think McCain is arrogant?

Yes 35%

No 65%

 

Despite this, they are both clearly arrogant. As has been stated, it takes a big of arrogance to think you can be the leader of the free world.

 

And I'd like to think an exhibit of arrogance would be how excited are people to work with you. I don't like working with arrogant people, but it sure seems a lot of his staff are very excited to work for him, while McCain's have complained of his ability to stay on their message.

 

Kapkomet reads this as "McCain SUCKS"

 

He does.

 

I see your point, however.

[bmags]

To you, because you are for Obama. That's been pretty clear throughout.

 

I still need to get off my duff and create that thread, because I was very serious about wanting to understand the insight of an Obama backer. Seriously, and no judgements ...

 

I already responded, and you didn't read it because of your selective reading. The truth is, all you care about is Obama too, just admit it.

[kapkomet]

I already responded, and you didn't read it because of your selective reading. The truth is, all you care about is Obama too, just admit it.

Well, I mean on the issues, and explaining my perspective beyond short snippets. The problem is that's pretty time consuming. I really would enjoy a really good debate about it, but unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time right now.

[bmags]

Well, I mean on the issues, and explaining my perspective beyond short snippets. The problem is that's pretty time consuming. I really would enjoy a really good debate about it, but unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time right now.

 

I will write up an essay on why I chose Obama over Clinton and why I support him when I finish up my summer school classes, and attached will be why he is important beyond the issues.

[kapkomet]

I will write up an essay on why I chose Obama over Clinton and why I support him when I finish up my summer school classes, and attached will be why he is important beyond the issues.

I think you and BigSqwert have a lot of value to this conversation... at least how I'm thinking about it. I just need to get some time, whatever the hell that is.

[HuskyCaucasian]

I will write up an essay on why I chose Obama over Clinton and why I support him when I finish up my summer school classes, and attached will be why he is important beyond the issues.

I think we probably would have a lot of the same points in common. I'll leave the writing up to you though. I am a far less eloquent writer. I'm not very good at articulating my ideas.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Athomeboy_2000

[bmags]

I think we probably would have a lot of the same points in common. I'll leave the writing up to you though. I am a far less eloquent writer. I'm not very good at articulating my ideas.

 

hold on, I can't be writing the essential Obama supporter piece. Reasons I like Obama may be pretty different, one of the big reasons I turned to his campaign was he was an academic and welcomed academics. And apparently there are democrats that "don't put their lots in with the economists", so I don't know if that is a reason they like him.

[HuskyCaucasian]

hold on, I can't be writing the essential Obama supporter piece. Reasons I like Obama may be pretty different, one of the big reasons I turned to his campaign was he was an academic and welcomed academics. And apparently there are democrats that "don't put their lots in with the economists", so I don't know if that is a reason they like him.

 

I am just saying that I think we both like him for similar reasons. I have a broad range of reasons. I just cant articulate them very well.

[bmags]

I am just saying that I think we both like him for similar reasons. I have a broad range of reasons. I just cant articulate them very well.

 

you can give +1's for every paragraph you agree with.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Well done DNC:

[bmags]

what the hell is this music?

[HuskyCaucasian]

I just got to thinking...

John McCain said today that he is proud of the campaign he is running: "I'm proud of the campaign that we have run."

 

That sure would look good in an ad. "John McCain say's he's proud of his negative campaign...."

[kapkomet]

I just got to thinking...

John McCain said today that he is proud of the campaign he is running: "I'm proud of the campaign that we have run."

 

That sure would look good in an ad. "John McCain say's he's proud of his negative campaign...."

 

You are so f***ing blinded by the rhetoric that you can't get yourself out of it.

 

It's a CAMPAIGN. If you advertise about your opponent's weaknesses, everyone comes running out of the woodwork screaming "NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!" Well, no s***, of COURSE it's negative toward your guy!

[Nokona]

 

You are so f***ing blinded by the rhetoric that you can't get yourself out of it.

 

It's a CAMPAIGN. If you advertise about your opponent's weaknesses, everyone comes running out of the woodwork screaming "NEGATIVE!!!!!!!!!!!" Well, no s***, of COURSE it's negative toward your guy!

 

Oh please, theres a line between attacking issues (which McCain said he'd do) and with what's going on now. He's grasping at straws

[kapkomet]

Oh please, theres a line between attacking issues (which McCain said he'd do) and with what's going on now. He's grasping at straws

Obama's inexperienced and is being portrayed to the masses as a rock star. 200,000 people (AFTER attending a free concert, by the way, which is hardly EVER reported) are screaming OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!! Now, what the hell does Germany have to do with OUR election? Oh, that's right, we need the Europeans opinion and good graces on EVERYTHING again, because they love America so much (ahem) and REALLY care about who our president is. Right. Europe loves Europe, and ONLY if WE agree with them (and NOT that they agree with us, notice the difference here) do they like us. I don't give a rip if the pope were president, it will always be that way.

 

He's against drilling - HE IS. So what's "NEGATIVE" about pointing both of these things out? Is Obama ready to lead? It's a damn good question, and asking it is not "negative", it's rhetorical, to make people think about it.

 

OH OH MCCAIN'S DESPARATE!

 

Whatever. And again, Obama walks on water and gets a free pass.

[BigSqwert]

...is being portrayed to the masses as a rock star.

Sounds like jealousy to me. And what issue is McCain attacking there? The anti rock star issue? Didn't see that issue listed in most poll questions.

[bmags]

Obama's inexperienced and is being portrayed to the masses as a rock star. 200,000 people (AFTER attending a free concert, by the way, which is hardly EVER reported) are screaming OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA!!! Now, what the hell does Germany have to do with OUR election? Oh, that's right, we need the Europeans opinion and good graces on EVERYTHING again, because they love America so much (ahem) and REALLY care about who our president is. Right. Europe loves Europe, and ONLY if they agree with us do they like us. I don't give a rip if the pope were president, it will always be that way.

 

He's against drilling - HE IS. So what's "NEGATIVE" about pointing both of these things out? Is Obama ready to lead? It's a damn good question, and asking it is not "negative", it's rhetorical, to make people think about it.

 

OH OH MCCAIN'S DESPARATE!

 

Whatever. And again, Obama walks on water and gets a free pass.

 

you really go from 0 to 100 so easily.

 

One, the Europeans very much really really do care who our president is. It affects them much more than france electing Beavis Sarkozy or Merkel in Germany affects us. Or at least they realize how what america does affects them as opposed to most people not understanding what the hell europe is doing right now.

 

Obama has never put out talking points saying he should be president because the germans like him. He did a middle east-euro campaign tour much like McCain did, and did a much better job of creating imagery and excitement, quell peoples worries about experience. McCain got beat so bad over the challenge he issued Obama that he's trying to flip it as if it's a bad thing that our allies love our nominee.

 

Europe only loves us when our policies agree with them...sounds pretty reasonable. You probably like Europe a lot more when they go along with our coalitions and policies. Sounds like self-interest. Those commies.

 

And as for drilling. Look at the ad. What is really being said here? I'm for offshore drilling and Obama's not! Or is it, you know why gas prices are high? (OBAMA). Now, the sad part is the latter is actually not hyperbole. I don't think I need to explain how misleading and false that is and how even if the issue is at hand how misleading and false that is.

[lostfan]

Tell me, what if Obama had said we need to exclude Russia from the G-8 because they're not democratic lately and we need to punish them? That's a f***ing stupid idea and it'd get chalked up to the "inexperience" thing. (btw that was a paraphrasing of McCain's idea)

[bmags]

Because that's not the narrative.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Tell me, what if Obama had said we need to exclude Russia from the G-8 because they're not democratic lately and we need to punish them? That's a f***ing stupid idea and it'd get chalked up to the "inexperience" thing. (btw that was a paraphrasing of McCain's idea)

More info Here

 

He was for it, then against it.

[bmags]

I feel pretty helpless to the awfulness of this presidency.

 

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1828469,00.html

 

[BigSqwert]

Bob Cesca rules.

 

 

The Corporate Media Experiment: Why Isn't Senator Obama 'One of Us'?

 

I'm not sure how he continues to be regarded as a very serious Washington pundit given his obvious history of race-baiting, but somehow he skulks his way onto MSNBC almost every day. Pat Buchanan on Hardball Monday night wondered out loud about Senator Obama: "Is he one of us?"

 

If by "one of us" he means a cranky, elitist, white, corporate media, man-shaped bunion who fashioned his career by demonizing brown people, the answer is a certain 'no'. But we know what Buchanan meant by this. Is Senator Obama with "us" or is he with the uppity blacks? Is he a real American like Senator McCain or is he a Muslim terrorist like those e-mails suggest? Is he too European (GAY!)? Is he like us: white, wealthy, conservative, elite?

 

During this dark ride of the Bush years, it's no longer surprising or shocking to hear such a bottomless cup of awfulness. This line of questioning has become the dominant theme in the corporate media's political narrative. "Us" has become a baseline which liberals -- regardless of race or gender -- will never achieve because the experiment is stacked against anyone who isn't centrist, moderate, right of center or conservative.

 

In scientific terms, the left has been tagged by the corporate media as the "experimental group" while the right is the "control group." The Republicans are the Awesome Republicans no matter what. They're constant. They set the tone of the debate. The corporate media accepts their terms, their rules and their frames as a given and the Democrats are expected to jump and dash and explain themselves based upon those givens, irrespective of how ludicrous they happen to be.

 

Prove to us that you're one of us. Prove to us that you support the troops. Prove to us that you're patriotic. Prove to us that you're not an effete snob. Prove to us that you can talk to a gathering of bumpkins in a diner like a plainspoken Republican can. Prove to us that you're not the enemy. Prove to us that you're not presumptuous.

 

And the experiment goes on and on with the Democrats (or liberals or progressives) poked and dissected and injected with false arguments, specious claims and disproved quotes (see Dana Milbank's recent column) often manufactured by the right and invariably parroted by the corporate media.

 

Instead of disregarding high pitched cranks like Buchanan and asking, "What Pat? Seriously -- why are you such a fringe psychonaut?" and discounting such a ridiculous question as beneath reason and credibility, the corporate media instead takes the "one of us" question seriously and more often than not wraps an entire debate around it.

 

This present week, in particular, has been yet another high water mark for this dynamic.

 

Senator Obama has been accused of being presumptuous, uppity (literally), against the troops, snobbish, elitist, hubristic, European (GAY!) and, considering the array of both subtle and obvious messages in Senator McCain's laughable Britney & Paris commercial, vacuous, frivolous, loopy, superficial, "Hollywood" and, I don't know, he produces amateur porn videos using night vision. Of course reasonable, professional analysts with ethical guidelines and some degree of integrity would disregard such accusations as the dripping-with-flopsweat acts of a desperate, pathetic McCain campaign. But instead, these accusations are somehow validated, debated and defended by people like Pat Buchanan. Prove to us, Senator Obama, that you're not a tabloid pop star. Prove to us that you're not a bleached blonde heiress or a slack-jawed ex-Mouseketeer.

 

Thankfully, for the cause of reason and rationality, there are people like Rachel Maddow who, while occupying the unglamorous role of debunking and debating Pat Buchanan, said to Buchanan on Wednesday's Race for the White House with Stretch:

 

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In the menacing world of Pat Buchanan and of the larger barbecue media, Senator Obama is, in fact, presumptuous and all the rest of it, or, if he's not, the onus is on him to prove that he's not. Meanwhile, Senator McCain is simply...not. Senator McCain couldn't possibly be an elitist and out of touch with most Americans (even though he wears $520 shoes and his wife is the heiress to an Anheuser-Busch distributorship fortune) because it just doesn't fit their scientific experiment dynamic -- the script, the narrative. He's just not. Senator McCain couldn't possibly be a "celebrity" even though he's hosted SNL and had a movie-of-the-week made about his Vietnam experiences. He's just not. Senator McCain couldn't possibly be in favor of torture even though he voted against banning it. He's just not. Senator McCain couldn't possibly be out of his depth on foreign policy even though his lies and errors in this arena far outnumber any similar gaffes by Senator Obama. He's just not.

 

Is it any wonder why the latest polls show a much tighter race? And, thusly, is it any wonder that a tight race is better for ratings? Pat Buchanan, it turns out, is good for business.

 

Anyone who promotes -- or who doesn't necessarily oppose -- the scientific narrative is good for business regardless of whether they're racists or homophobes or drug-addled hooples. After all, Rush Limbaugh's contract was just reupped for $400 million while Sam Seder isn't even allowed on corporate radio.

 

So irrespective of what Senator Obama might do or say or what his life story might be, as long as he has a (D) after his name, he'll always be expected by the corporate media to explain himself. To prove himself. Why isn't Senator Obama more like Senator McCain: white, wealthy, conservative, elite? They'll go through this routine until the experiment is finished: either Senator Obama is experimented upon until he becomes more like Senator McCain (or another media-approved "one of us") or he'll lose the election and the actual Senator McCain is the next president. And the experiment continues. That is, unless we can seize the initiative redefine who "us" is. After a long history of white, wealthy, conservative elites running the lab, it's time to shut it down and clear the way for the rest of us.

 

LINK

Edited August 1, 2008 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

Bob Cesca rules.

 

 

 

 

LINK

First, Pat Buchanan is an assbag. Let's just get that out of the way. Him and Ann Coulter should just go marry and not reproduce.

 

But, I still DO have many of those questions that the writer of this article tries to make satirical. I DO NOT question the "patriotism" of Obama (that type of thinking is stupid and ineffective, and if the GOP wants to start crap like that, they are plain stupid), he doesn't have to prove anything like that. But he DOES need to prove that he can lead this country effectively. I don't think he's done that, nor do I, because behind the smoke and mirrors of his speeches, he's pretty empty and has some policies that will mess us up for years and years (yes, I know, I know... Democrats think he's the best thing to hit politics since FDR, but you would.)

 

 

 

[BigSqwert]

First, Pat Buchanan is an assbag. Let's just get that out of the way. Him and Ann Coulter should just go marry and not reproduce.

 

But, I still DO have many of those questions that the writer of this article tries to make satirical. I DO NOT question the "patriotism" of Obama (that type of thinking is stupid and ineffective, and if the GOP wants to start crap like that, they are plain stupid), he doesn't have to prove anything like that. But he DOES need to prove that he can lead this country effectively. I don't think he's done that, nor do I, because behind the smoke and mirrors of his speeches, he's pretty empty and has some policies that will mess us up for years and years (yes, I know, I know... Democrats think he's the best thing to hit politics since FDR, but you would.)

After 8 years of GWB policies what exactly do you see in McCain that says to you "Oh yeah. That is definitely the right direction for our country!"