The Democrat Thread

[NorthSideSox72]

BTW the USSS's public comments on that situation are just putting a positive spin on an uncomfortable situation - you're crazy if you think they're happy about it.

I'd say, sort of. I think they'd prefer not, but I also think they're pretty confident these guys, outside a secured perimeter, introduce very little risk aside from causing chaos that could hold up the motorcade. But also, yes, I am sure they want to keep things as understated as possible. They won't raise a public red flag, like, ever, for any reason.

 

[Balta1701]

Tom Delay wants to see Obama's gift certificate.

[StrangeSox]

Tom DeLay wants to dance his ass off.

[BigSqwert]

And conservatives question our claims of fear mongering during Herr Bush's dictatorship...

 

In his new book, Tom Ridge admits to inciting fear at the request of the Bush 2004 campaign.

 

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ecurity Council meeting

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; wa

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"blind

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ided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meeting

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e the agency withheld critical information from him; found hi

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urging

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to bloc

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Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane

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atrina di

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ter ignored; and

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re-election,

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omething he

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politically motivated and worth re

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igning over.

LINK

Edited August 20, 2009 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

Yep, these guys have nice integrity trying to get back whatever they didn't have in Washington circles, saying s*** years later that what they did was politically motivated. It takes balls to do that. . Tom Ridge and Colin Powell can go suck on their words that don't mean s*** for a while.

 

[Balta1701]

Yep, these guys have nice integrity trying to get back whatever they didn't have in Washington circles, saying s*** years later that what they did was politically motivated. It takes balls to do that. . Tom Ridge and Colin Powell can go suck on their words that don't mean s*** for a while.

This of course begs the question...if you had a problem with that behavior, why didn't you resign? Or why didn't you make it publicly known?

[lostfan]

Sigh, one of my "friends" on Facebook made a status saying that calling Obama a Nazi is valid because national socialism = socialism so I have to explain to her that you really couldn't get much farther apart, and also throwing out the "Nazi" card immediately flags you as someone who nobody is going to take seriously. I feel like I'm telling someone that the moon isn't the sun.

Edited August 20, 2009 by lostfan

[kapkomet]

This of course begs the question...if you had a problem with that behavior, why didn't you resign? Or why didn't you make it publicly known?

You are exactly right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/faints

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Sigh, one of my "friends" on Facebook made a status saying that calling Obama a Nazi is valid because national socialism = socialism so I have to explain to her that you really couldn't get much farther apart, and also throwing out the "Nazi" card immediately flags you as someone who nobody is going to take seriously. I feel like I'm telling someone that the moon isn't the sun.

 

Just post a .jpg of a dining room table and move on.

 

Most people in this country who talk about socialism, communism, capitalism, nazism or fascism have a very shallow understanding of what any of those terms really means. How often are socialism and communism conflated together? How many think Marx's ideas represent the entirety of communism?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Just post a .jpg of a dining room table and move on.

 

Most people in this country who talk about socialism, communism, capitalism, nazism or fascism have a very shallow understanding of what any of those terms really means. How often are socialism and communism conflated together? How many think Marx's ideas represent the entirety of communism?

 

Isn't that redundant over and over again and again.

 

Sorry, I just wasn't sure Soxy would stop in to Grammar Cop this.

 

[StrangeSox]

they were conflated together into one word with the same meaning even though they are really separate words!

[Balta1701]

Sigh, one of my "friends" on Facebook made a status saying that calling Obama a Nazi is valid because national socialism = socialism so I have to explain to her that you really couldn't get much farther apart, and also throwing out the "Nazi" card immediately flags you as someone who nobody is going to take seriously. I feel like I'm telling someone that the moon isn't the sun.

Here's what you need to do. Point out to her that the first enemy the National Socialists went after were the Communists. They were the main rivals in 1933, they were the ones that the National Socialists used the Reichstag fire to go after.

 

Therefore, since everything the national socialists did was evil, her only real option is to go join the American Communist party. It's the only way that she can effectively stop Obama's campaign of National Socialism. It's the old "Crisatunity" situation.

 

Oh, they hated Unions too. She should go join/found a couple unions.

[FlaSoxxJim]

they were conflated together into one word with the same meaning even though they are really separate words!

 

That is something I will remember for ever and ever. Which is one ever longer than forever.

[lostfan]

Just post a .jpg of a dining room table and move on.

 

Most people in this country who talk about socialism, communism, capitalism, nazism or fascism have a very shallow understanding of what any of those terms really means. How often are socialism and communism conflated together? How many think Marx's ideas represent the entirety of communism?

Damn near everyone who uses any of those words as a pejorative. No exaggeration.

 

I ended up telling her that a comparison of Obama to a socialist was valid (if debatable) but to a Nazi was not only wildly inaccurate, but playing that card immediately flags you as someone that most people won't pay attention to. (And yes Balta I did point out that they did go to war with actual socialists, and I directed her to the white supremacist website and told her to ask them how they felt about Obama or socialism in general).

[bmags]

even so "socialism" in marxist sense and the socialist democrats that arose in Western Europe are two entirely different beasts. (And in South America for that matter, though their dangerous socialist leaders have much more to do with Pero-type populism than Marxist socialism). But what does it matter, the important thing is the majority of people talking right now are very, very, very stupid.

[kapkomet]

Obama's no where close to a Nazi. Not even in the same realm. Marxist? Absolutely.

 

[bmags]

Kap explain the tenets of Marxism and I'll give you a cookie.

[kapkomet]

Kap explain the tenets of Marxism and I'll give you a cookie.

I know "economic theory" - which is only a part of "marxism".

 

Marx wanted a "classless society" - he thought that capitalism was going to feed the fat cats and only the fat cats. Hi Balta. You're a Marxist too.

 

Marx was for putting the "proceeds" (for lack of a better word) back to the industrial workers. As a mechanism for this - of course communists would say that state run everything is the way to ensure that happens. I'm not calling Obama a communist, I'm calling him a Marxist. Big difference.

 

Aka, redistribution of wealth from the bourgeious to the common people. And Obama is certainly that.

[lostfan]

You oversimplified it about as far as you could possibly go though. Saying progressive taxation = Marxism is like saying that because I was in the military and so was Bush that I should be president.

 

The guy who basically founded modern capitalism (Adam Smith) said the rich should pay higher taxes. Is he a Marxist too?

Edited August 21, 2009 by lostfan

[kapkomet]

You oversimplified it about as far as you could possibly go though. Saying progressive taxation = Marxism is like saying that because I was in the military and so was Bush that I should be president.

Yea, it's oversimplified. Of course it is. You think I'm writing a book?

 

I'm just saying that he's a Marxist. It is what it is. Now if bat s*** crazy people want to go nuts on this, then they don't know what the real definition is. You said it well earlier when you said people get stupid over the definitions and it's sensationalized. It's a damn theory.

Edited August 21, 2009 by kapkomet

[Balta1701]

You oversimplified it about as far as you could possibly go though. Saying progressive taxation = Marxism is like saying that because I was in the military and so was Bush that I should be president.

You mean Bush 41 I hope? Cause 43...well...ya know...

[bmags]

Yea, it's oversimplified. Of course it is. You think I'm writing a book?

 

I'm just saying that he's a Marxist. It is what it is. Now if bat s*** crazy people want to go nuts on this, then they don't know what the real definition is. You said it well earlier when you said people get stupid over the definitions and it's sensationalized. It's a damn theory.

 

It's much more than that. He believed the new industrial class, the proletariats, were the chosen people of sorts, supermen. After capitalism ran it's course, the working class it created would overthrow the government and make a workers government that would nationalize everything. After years under socialism, the government would no longer be needed, the perfect state of communism. But the importance is placed specifically on the proletariat class. He didn't care for farmers, peasants, merchants, middle class. So no, Obama is not a marxist. Much of the communist manifesto is documenting what makes a revolution possible looking at the French Revolution. The rest is spitting garbage about the proletariat working class.

 

So no, Obama isn't a marxist.

[lostfan]

I read part of Marx's writings my junior year of high school. I don't remember all of it but I do remember that he talked a lot about workers, and how he believed all of a corporation's profits rightfully belonged to the workers.

 

My biggest problem with this is the fact that the word "socialism" really has no meaning anymore. It's a wingnut's rallying cry, nothing more.

[kapkomet]

It's much more than that. He believed the new industrial class, the proletariats, were the chosen people of sorts, supermen. After capitalism ran it's course, the working class it created would overthrow the government and make a workers government that would nationalize everything. After years under socialism, the government would no longer be needed, the perfect state of communism. But the importance is placed specifically on the proletariat class. He didn't care for farmers, peasants, merchants, middle class. So no, Obama is not a marxist. Much of the communist manifesto is documenting what makes a revolution possible looking at the French Revolution. The rest is spitting garbage about the proletariat working class.

 

So no, Obama isn't a marxist.

Yes, he is. Now you're blending "communism and marxism". He's purely for taking the burgeious out and putting it in the proletariats hands. That's simple enough - and why I tried to keep it so simple. Hello, union payoffs over established bankrputcy law, for example.

[bmags]

oh, you are right, that is marxist. Good job.