The Democrat Thread

[BigSqwert]

Generally, you don't do it to your own caucus. Gees, you go to great lengths to protect your own. There's always some "good" reason for your view.

At any given moment you're either s***ting all over Congress or sticking up for them.

[BigSqwert]

Greenwald is a must read today.

[BigSqwert]

McCain Refused To Grant 30 Seconds Of Time During Iraq War Debate

[mr_genius]

McCain Refused To Grant 30 Seconds Of Time During Iraq War Debate

 

He probably forgot about that. He's totally clueless.

[lostfan]

He probably forgot about that. He's totally clueless.

He probably hasn't caught on to the capabilities of those newfangled video tapes yet either.

[Balta1701]

From the news 5600 years ago.

Members of the earth's earliest known civilization, the Sumerians, looked on in shock and confusion some 6,000 years ago as God, the Lord Almighty, created Heaven and Earth.

 

According to recently excavated clay tablets inscribed with cuneiform script, thousands of Sumerians—the first humans to establish systems of writing, agriculture, and government—were working on their sophisticated irrigation systems when the Father of All Creation reached down from the ether and blew the divine spirit of life into their thriving civilization.

 

"I do not understand," reads an ancient line of pictographs depicting the sun, the moon, water, and a Sumerian who appears to be scratching his head. "A booming voice is saying, 'Let there be light,' but there is already light. It is saying, 'Let the earth bring forth grass,' but I am already standing on grass."

 

"Everything is here already," the pictograph continues. "We do not need more stars."

[bmags]

that's some quality sat-tire right thur.

[NorthSideSox72]

Obama and the US DOT passed rule changes in the past few days, to protect flyers against unnecessarily long tarmac holds on passenger aircraft. 3 hours max is the short story, and there are further protections, and exceptions, as well. This is good, and has been needed for some time.

 

[bmags]

another "law" from the "most transparent" "administration" ever

 

sorry I was just seeing how it feels.

[Y2HH]

Obama and the US DOT passed rule changes in the past few days, to protect flyers against unnecessarily long tarmac holds on passenger aircraft. 3 hours max is the short story, and there are further protections, and exceptions, as well. This is good, and has been needed for some time.

 

This is a good thing, I'm happy to see this was done. I really disliked how the airlines tended to treat people stuck in delays, as if it wasn't already hard enough.

[Rex Kickass]

Actually, its really only gonna turn IRROPS messes like the blizzard we saw this past weekend into bigger s***shows than we've seen before. It's going to be hard to get these people off the tarmac in a groundstop with every gate full, plus it basically means that if you hit three hours on tarmac and you get your clearance 20 minutes later, you'll have to reboard - and get back into line... usually at the back of the line. If people don't make it to reboard, if they've checked luggage

 

This is a great way to turn a three hour delay into a six hour delay to be honest.

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually, its really only gonna turn IRROPS messes like the blizzard we saw this past weekend into bigger s***shows than we've seen before. It's going to be hard to get these people off the tarmac in a groundstop with every gate full, plus it basically means that if you hit three hours on tarmac and you get your clearance 20 minutes later, you'll have to reboard - and get back into line... usually at the back of the line. If people don't make it to reboard, if they've checked luggage

 

This is a great way to turn a three hour delay into a six hour delay to be honest.

I think its a good thing, even considering the logistical nightmare. For one thing, it forces the airlines and airports to be more realistic with gate allocations. For another thing, we aren't talking about all delays here, but 3 hour delays - and at that point, most people would rather have a 5 hour delay with some time in the airport and use of a bathroom, than a 4.5 hour delay entirely on a plane. I know I would.

 

[Y2HH]

I think its a good thing, even considering the logistical nightmare. For one thing, it forces the airlines and airports to be more realistic with gate allocations. For another thing, we aren't talking about all delays here, but 3 hour delays - and at that point, most people would rather have a 5 hour delay with some time in the airport and use of a bathroom, than a 4.5 hour delay entirely on a plane. I know I would.

 

I agree, if they did proper gate allocations there is no reason for every gate to be full at the same time...EVER. There is no excuse for this and the only reason they do it now is because they can get away with it.

 

And yes, yes, yes...I'd much rather spend extra time IN the airport than sitting on an uncomfortable plane.

[Rex Kickass]

I agree, if they did proper gate allocations there is no reason for every gate to be full at the same time...EVER. There is no excuse for this and the only reason they do it now is because they can get away with it.

 

And yes, yes, yes...I'd much rather spend extra time IN the airport than sitting on an uncomfortable plane.

 

Unless youre in an IRROPS situation where you have planes coming in, but a ground stop preventing planes to leave.

[NorthSideSox72]

Unless youre in an IRROPS situation where you have planes coming in, but a ground stop preventing planes to leave.

You can still cycle planes in and out of gates. And if the airlines have to do that often enough (which costs them money), they will adjust. Its a pain for the airlines, but in this case, I don't feel badly for them at all. They put themselves in this position.

 

[Y2HH]

You can still cycle planes in and out of gates. And if the airlines have to do that often enough (which costs them money), they will adjust. Its a pain for the airlines, but in this case, I don't feel badly for them at all. They put themselves in this position.

 

Same. And I don't even like agreeing with NorthSideSox72.

[Soxy]

I have this theory let me know what you guys thing: There is a very strong negative correlation between believing in aliens and believing in global warming.

[NorthSideSox72]

I have this theory let me know what you guys thing: There is a very strong negative correlation between believing in aliens and believing in global warming.

I accidentally stumbled across a website the other day, where this person had a bunch of images of jet contrails in the sky - and wanted to know why the US government was poisoning all of us with silver nitrate.

 

Why is this related, you ask?

 

The site also extolls a theory I have heard people actually speak outloud, where they think the Very Large Array in New Mexico is actually a weather changing device, meant to re-route rain to Albuquerque and Santa Fe, so that the big cities have more water.

 

Confluence of these points?

 

Many people seem to believe that a small number of human beings can alter the weather, or manipulate all of man kind in some way, in some vast conspiracy (usually within the government). And yet, they cannot believe that Mother Nature - a force immensely more powerful than all of humanity - isn't going to act to defend itself when changes are introduced. I find that amusing.

 

[Y2HH]

I have this theory let me know what you guys thing: There is a very strong negative correlation between believing in aliens and believing in global warming.

 

That's because Aliens actually exist.

[Balta1701]

I have this theory let me know what you guys thing: There is a very strong negative correlation between believing in aliens and believing in global warming.

My only response can be this.

 

[southsider2k5]

My only response can be this.

 

 

So how has that changed in the last few year with the return of pirates?

[Rex Kickass]

You can still cycle planes in and out of gates. And if the airlines have to do that often enough (which costs them money), they will adjust. Its a pain for the airlines, but in this case, I don't feel badly for them at all. They put themselves in this position.

The Cranky Flier has a great post today about how horrible these mandates are.

 

 

http://crankyflier.com/2009/12/22/dot-mand...d-im-not-happy/

 

But that’s not the only potential problem. Here’s another one. Let’s say that there’s a bad thunderstorm that snarls traffic for the day and your airplane has been inching along the taxiway for about 2 hours and 45 minutes. If that plane won’t be airborne by 3 hours, they have to turn around. It doesn’t matter if they were #1 for departure. Under this rule, the airline will be obligated to turn around and head back to the gate. Now we have a ton of problems – they have to let the passenger off, get the bag out and then get right back in the line at the very end. There is no place-holding allowed. Oh, and there’s a good chance the crew will have had too many hours at that point so they’ll need to find someone else to fly the plane. Now you’ll have a lot of unhappy customers.

[lostfan]

Barack Obama's Facebook news feed (from Friday): http://www.slate.com/id/2239006/

[NorthSideSox72]

The Cranky Flier has a great post today about how horrible these mandates are.

 

 

http://crankyflier.com/2009/12/22/dot-mand...d-im-not-happy/

Well of course you will have cases like that. But most of the time, it won't be right on the cusp like that. And further, because of the incredible length of some of these delays, and the unwillingness of the airlines to make changes, you really have no choice but to draw a line in the sand. If you don't, things will keep getting worse.

 

This is like the airbag argument to me. When they first came into wide use, people pointed out that some people would actually be hurt or killed by them. Well yes, they will. You'll kill 100 people in a year, and save 1,000. Which is better?

 

[Rex Kickass]

Well of course you will have cases like that. But most of the time, it won't be right on the cusp like that. And further, because of the incredible length of some of these delays, and the unwillingness of the airlines to make changes, you really have no choice but to draw a line in the sand. If you don't, things will keep getting worse.

 

This is like the airbag argument to me. When they first came into wide use, people pointed out that some people would actually be hurt or killed by them. Well yes, they will. You'll kill 100 people in a year, and save 1,000. Which is better?

 

But the problem is that these delays only happen in IRROPS situations. At JFK, there are frequently anywhere between 50 and 100 planes waiting to take off during peak hours of operations. That's nearly an hour of taxi time - which is something that will only get worse when they shut one of the runways down for rehab next year. A summer storm moving through, keeping you on the ground for two hours, coupled with being 45th to takeoff guarantees you a return to the gate under this rule. If one person elects to get off the flight, you add another 30-60 minutes to the delay because they have to root around the plane for the luggage. When they are ready to start again, they go back to the line. If there was a ground stop in JFK, 45th in line could quickly become 145th in line. At which point it becomes clear that duty hours are going to exceed maximum threshhold and the flight goes back to the gate again, and the flight cancelled because of staffing issues.

 

Irregular Operations are irregular for a reason. If people were randomly kept on the tarmac for three hours in optimal circumstances, we would have a serious problem that this rule might address. But we don't have that problem now. We only have that problem when there are huge issues virtually shutting down an airport. And since 2007 and the JetBlue disaster, airlines are already much quicker to cancel the flights than have their passengers wait for hours.

 

This is a feel good regulation that will create more delays and more preemptive cancellation than anything else.