The Democrat Thread

[StrangeSox]

Welcome to Republican Economics. It's a bizarre world of blatant contradictions and generally terrible policy choices.

[StrangeSox]

I think this is a worth-while editorial with an additional note on how the WI situation came about...

 

The programs he established through votes in January were some corporate tax cuts and additional money for Health-Savings accounts. The Governor actually generated his own fiscal imbalance to start this.

 

This needs to be hammered on repeatedly to counter the anti-workers-rights narrative. It's a crisis that was created by Republicans to pass Republican projects at the expense of public workers.

[Balta1701]

From the annals of "great facebook statuses:":

[StrangeSox]

[bigklita]

My favorite sign "Don't Join Anakin ScottWalker on the Dark Side."

[BigSqwert]

f***ing communists.

[Balta1701]

On the rail topic, here's Tampa's paper on where Gov. Scott got his numbers.

Scott said his decision came down to three basic fears: cost overruns could reach $3 billion, state taxpayers would have to cover any shortfall, and Florida would have to repay the federal government if the rail line goes defunct. Those aren't original or well founded. They come from a study by the Reason Foundation, a libertarian think tank that compared the Florida plan with rail systems in Taiwan, Korea and Britain. The Reason study also assumed that any cost above the $2.7 billion estimated for the Tampa-Orlando line would fall to Florida taxpayers. The state plan doesn't call for that. Private operators would build and run the system and absorb any cost overruns.

 

If Scott were an honest broker looking out for Floridians, he would not have killed the project before putting it out to bid. He would have waited for an updated study on ridership and costs. The contention Wednesday by his press office that Scott has inside information is not good enough.

Worth noting, I haven't read every Floridian paper for some reason, but I have seen now in several places the contention that Gov. Scott canceled the project without actually taking bids or estimates for the real cost.

[NorthSideSox72]

On the rail topic, here's Tampa's paper on where Gov. Scott got his numbers.

Worth noting, I haven't read every Floridian paper for some reason, but I have seen now in several places the contention that Gov. Scott canceled the project without actually taking bids or estimates for the real cost.

Yeah, its looking more and more like he's really just as stupid as Walker here. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but it looks like he is just making s*** up to stop this and look like a good GOP soldier.

 

[StrangeSox]

Michigan's governor is financing 1.5B in business tax cuts by creating pension taxes and raising other personal taxes and cutting funding to state universities. Go GOP!

 

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/20...get_delive.html

 

Michigan’s 15 public universities could see a 15 percent, $225 million reduction in state aid.

“This overall proposal is really about the future in creating an environment of opportunity and prosperity for the kids who are about to inherit Michigan,” Calley said.

Edited February 18, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

The governor of WI's anti-labor campaign is over a deficit of about $120 million that he created.

 

Turns out, if he succeeds in stripping transportation workers (bus drivers) of their rights to unionize, he'll lose an additional $45 million in federal funding.

 

His anti-union campaign will actually create a larger budget hole.

[StrangeSox]

Not that Quinn isn't an asshat, but I'm so glad Brady didn't win. Otherwise IL would be going through the same s***.

[StrangeSox]

also this:

 

 

the whole right-to-work, anti-union, business-friendly state thing is kinda interesting in that it basically takes the neoliberal model for the third world and applies it to US states, i.e., democratically elected governments coerced into pliant vassalage by corporate interests holding the livelihoods of their people hostage.

 

gut your state's protections and benefits for workers so they can enjoy the opportunity to make us rich in exchange for subsistence! it's not just for the global south anymore!

Edited February 18, 2011 by StrangeSox

[southsideirish71]

Not that Quinn isn't an asshat, but I'm so glad Brady didn't win. Otherwise IL would be going through the same s***.

 

Yeah but Quinn is the other side of the coin. We have all these financial problems as a state. He wants to raise taxes and now he wants to add about 1000 new employees. You can't have it both ways. You want to raise taxes, then also cut some of the spending. You can't use raising taxes as the endless money pit to grow government.

 

Can't we have something in the middle.

[Balta1701]

Yeah but Quinn is the other side of the coin. We have all these financial problems as a state. He wants to raise taxes and now he wants to add about 1000 new employees. You can't have it both ways. You want to raise taxes, then also cut some of the spending. You can't use raising taxes as the endless money pit to grow government.

 

Can't we have something in the middle.

I can't speak to every case, or even this case in particular, but there are a number of times when simply "Having fewer employees" translates to spending more money. The IL gov is claiming this is the case with some of his additions.

 

The classic example is the IRS. You cut funding for IRS employees, and suddenly you have a lot more fraud, you take in less revenue, your cuts actually cost $10 for every $1 you cut. If the Republican national level cuts actually take hold, some of them, like cutting the management budget for social security, will lead to more uninvestigated fraud.

The administration said adding some jobs will actually save money because some state agencies, particularly the Corrections Department, are spending huge amounts on overtime as guards work long hours to make up for a staff shortage.

 

In other cases, the Democratic governor's staff said, new laws require new hiring.

 

Legislation increasing oversight of nursing homes requires more inspectors, Quinn budget director David Vaught said. A huge public works program designed to boost the economy requires more engineers at the Transportation Department.

 

"We closely monitor that . to make sure those are not excessive," Vaught said.

 

Several legislators said Thursday that they might be willing to add jobs if Quinn can demonstrate they would ultimately lower spending.

 

"Given the fiscal situation, given the many people on both sides of the aisle saying cuts need to be made, this will be a very hard sale," said Sen. John Sullivan, a Rushville Democrat who leads an appropriations committee.

 

His Republican counterpart, Sen. Matt Murphy of Palatine, said: "We're going to want to know what they're all for and see if they can pass that threshold question of whether it would save the state money."

 

Quinn's office did not immediately respond to repeated messages left Thursday seeking details on the hiring.

 

The House Democrats' budget analysis shows 945 people would be hired, including 187 at Corrections, 150 at Transportation, 101 at Public Health and 97 at Veterans' Affairs.

 

The proposed hiring was applauded by the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which has long argued that by skimping on workers the state reduces the quality of services and jeopardizes employees in sensitive jobs, particularly prison guards.

 

"It's a good thing that they're making an effort to begin to restore adequate staffing," union spokesman Anders Lindall said.

 

Staff at the Corrections Department this year is down about 22 percent from a decade ago. Spokeswoman Sharyn Elman said its net savings after hiring new guards would be about $5.4 million.

 

When accounting for population, Illinois has one of the nation's smallest state workforces — perhaps the very smallest. New York, for instance, has about 200,000 state employees, while Illinois has about 55,000, not counting university staff.

[southsideirish71]

I can't speak to every case, or even this case in particular, but there are a number of times when simply "Having fewer employees" translates to spending more money. The IL gov is claiming this is the case with some of his additions.

 

The classic example is the IRS. You cut funding for IRS employees, and suddenly you have a lot more fraud, you take in less revenue, your cuts actually cost $10 for every $1 you cut. If the Republican national level cuts actually take hold, some of them, like cutting the management budget for social security, will lead to more uninvestigated fraud.

 

They really need to audit state and county employment overall. Proper slotting of pay and skill shoudl happen. No double dipping on pensions. No last minute promotions right before they retire to boom their pension. You make 50k and all of a sudden you get to 120k for the last few years to bump your pension. No secretaries making 160k because they know someone and are politically connected. Janitors making 150k. No relatives of a elected person getting high paying jobs. I worked in Cook County and I remember a secretary who would sleep at her desk with her arms drapped over the typewriter. She made 140k and couldn't type, couldnt spell, never answered the phone. She was angry and beligerent to people and made phone calls to get people harassed if they tried to get her to work. I would love to tell you that this was a one off, but no. Lots of examples of that in my time in the county. I don't believe its changed all that much. My dealings with the state were about the same. Unqualified people holding positions based on patronage are a blight and cost the tax payers. If you are qualified and work hard, sure you deserve your pay and your benefits. But if you want a place to sleep, talk on the phone with your friends, or abuse the system then go away.

Edited February 18, 2011 by southsideirish71

[Balta1701]

Although no one can possibly disagree with your statement, it's worth noting that the dollar amounts extracted from the system by that type of corruption are in general small compared to the size of budgets/budget imbalances.

 

People get elected promising to balance budgets by getting rid of that type of corruption. They usually wind up finding there's very little of it, and they like what little of it there is because it can reward their supporters.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yeah but Quinn is the other side of the coin. We have all these financial problems as a state. He wants to raise taxes and now he wants to add about 1000 new employees. You can't have it both ways. You want to raise taxes, then also cut some of the spending. You can't use raising taxes as the endless money pit to grow government.

 

Can't we have something in the middle.

Oddly enough, SOME of Walker's tactics would be more beneficial here than in Wisconsin. I think Walker is acting like an ass, but he's trying to make deep and difficult cuts, which Illinois needs. Quinn is raising taxes but making only small and insufficient cuts, which is more what Wisconsin needs.

 

[Balta1701]

Oddly enough, SOME of Walker's tactics would be more beneficial here than in Wisconsin. I think Walker is acting like an ass, but he's trying to make deep and difficult cuts, which Illinois needs. Quinn is raising taxes but making only small and insufficient cuts, which is more what Wisconsin needs.

Really? Where did you get that from?

[NorthSideSox72]

Really? Where did you get that from?

Pension offsets for one, health care cost share for another.

 

Now again, I don't agree with his approach, nor do I agree with the exact TYPES of cuts he is making. But he is pushing his ideas on it, and frankly, Illinois could use a little bit of that right now.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Add Bingaman to Corad and Webb as retiring from the Senate for the Dems. NM is a swing state too.

 

[StrangeSox]

Oddly enough, SOME of Walker's tactics would be more beneficial here than in Wisconsin. I think Walker is acting like an ass, but he's trying to make deep and difficult cuts, which Illinois needs. Quinn is raising taxes but making only small and insufficient cuts, which is more what Wisconsin needs.

 

He's trying to make cuts and bust unions based on his personal politics to cover a budget gap he created. This doesn't seem like a difficult choice for him.

[Balta1701]

He's trying to make cuts and bust unions based on his personal politics to cover a budget gap he created. This doesn't seem like a difficult choice for him.

That's my point.

 

Those difficult cuts have to happen because he chose to cut the corporate tax rate.

[NorthSideSox72]

He's trying to make cuts and bust unions based on his personal politics to cover a budget gap he created. This doesn't seem like a difficult choice for him.

Anything that alienates such a large part of your constituency is a risk. And yet again, I am not saying that he's doing the right thing here. I am saying that what he seems capable of that Quinn is not, is actually cutting spending when the state needs it. Hell, Quinn's budget is being panned for overspending even by the state Congressional Dems in Illinois - the guy is clueless.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

That's my point.

 

Those difficult cuts have to happen because he chose to cut the corporate tax rate.

WI had one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country. I have no problem with him trying to make tax cuts there, and then trying to offset them. I just would have chosen different places and ways to cut, and not added in this union nonsense. I also would have happily taken the free $1.2B worth of high speed rail jobs, thank you very much.

 

[Balta1701]

WI had one of the highest corporate tax rates in the country. I have no problem with him trying to make tax cuts there, and then trying to offset them. I just would have chosen different places and ways to cut, and not added in this union nonsense. I also would have happily taken the free $1.2B worth of high speed rail jobs, thank you very much.

You and I differ in our definitions of "one of the highest". Top 40% yes, but...

Wisconsin's corporate tax structure consists of a flat rate of 7.9% on all corporate income. Among states levying corporate income taxes, Wisconsin's rate ranks 17th highest nationally. In 2008, state-level corporate tax collections (excluding local taxes) were $154 per capita, which ranked 19th highest nationally.