The Democrat Thread

[Balta1701]

Link

[NorthSideSox72]

I mean, if someone I work with takes a folder full of reports and analytical products I've done in the past year (which will have my name, and phone number at work on it) and burns them to a CD and mails it to Wikileaks and then I have to answer to a bunch of self-righteous media hacks about some s*** that was taken blatantly out of context, and where none of them even attempt to put it in its proper context, I'm going to want to punch that person in the face.

That reminds me of a hilarious story I read the other day in the Business section of the Trib.

 

You know how you get emails from airlines if you are a frequent flier? Ones that are "addressed" to you, saying "Hey Billy Oswald" (or whatever your name is, your frequent flier number, address, etc.), you have X number of miles to use!

 

Well, American Airlines sent out a Billy Oswald email to everyone... and they all contained Billy Oswald's information. One guy.

 

Link

[HuskyCaucasian]

Video Apparently Shows Wisconsin Rep Getting Tackled By Officers

WKOW in Madison, Wisc., posted some stunning video Thursday night, apparently showing state Representative Nick Milroy (D) being tackled by Capitol police as he tried to enter the building.

 

According to KWOW, "Milroy was trying to get clothes from his office but police would not let him into the building."

 

Capitol Police Public Information Officer Tim Donovan told TPM this morning he had not yet heard about the incident.

 

Late Update: Mary Lou Keleher, a staffer for Milroy, told TPM that the representative was not arrested last night.

 

"He was just restrained," Keleher said.

 

According to Keleher, Milroy will be issuing a statement about the incident shortly.

[NorthSideSox72]

Video Apparently Shows Wisconsin Rep Getting Tackled By Officers

Watching the video, it looks to me like the guy was in a heated conversation with a cop, then reached into his pocket, and the cop decided something might be a threat so he put him in custody, forcibly. I can't hear the audio so I don't know what happened in the conversation, but whether or not that was a reasonable reaction from the cop might depend on what the exchanged words were.

 

[StrangeSox]

In a related story, Wisconsin Police Association Slams Republicans for Ordering Democrats Detained ‘With or Without Force’.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Bradley Manning could get the death penalty for being a whistle blower.

Apparently the military has now decided that he must be almost consistently nude.

 

Good work, torturers. I figured you were out of a job when we changed administrations. Who knew you'd just come up with a new tack?

 

Maybe someday we'll get to add a few names from this administration to the list of people who can't leave the country without being arrested for war crimes.

[Soxbadger]

You are right, we should treat every criminal to a 5 star resort, because I wouldnt want to mistreat them. The truth is, being in jail is torture. If you have ever been locked up for even a night, put in solitary, given prison food, etc. its not a walk in the park. But we as a society must understand that there is a reason the word "severe" is involved in torture. Torture is ripping Manning's finger nails off. Torture is making some ones body react like its drowning.

 

Humiliation is bad, we dont like it, but unless you are talking about making him literally eat s*** or get gang raped, Im probably going to say humiliation is not torture. Would I dislike being naked? Probably, but as long as its not cold or Im physically suffering, Id much rather be naked than having my testicles connected to a battery.

 

Every day US military go out and put their life on the line. If they are captured by the wrong people they will be tortured. Im generally on the side of Defendant's rights, but we have to have some threat to try and get information. We cant just hope that a detainee will all of a sudden voluntarily turn over information. They arent going to be swayed by our compassion.

 

The reality is we play with kid gloves compared to our enemy. I guess I just dont see what else the US can do, they have to do something. Id like there to be some sort of guidelines that state what is okay or what isnt, but there really is just no bright line that I can figure out. It all seems shades of gray if your not doing any physical harm (includes cold, hot, depriving sleep) or mock execution things.

[Balta1701]

Of course, the first premise of your argument, that "there are worse tortures so how can you complain about this" is clearly faulty.

 

The second is then undercut by the fact that he hasn't even been sentenced to anything or found guilty by any court. It's not even punishment...it's inflicting of humiliation and psychological torture to get him to confess and testify against other people in the case (assange).

[kapkomet]

Of course, the first premise of your argument, that "there are worse tortures so how can you complain about this" is clearly faulty.

 

The second is then undercut by the fact that he hasn't even been sentenced to anything or found guilty by any court. It's not even punishment...it's inflicting of humiliation and psychological torture to get him to confess and testify against other people in the case (assange).

 

 

Obama should clearly be arrested for war crimes, if we follow your (il)logic.

[Balta1701]

Obama should clearly be arrested for war crimes, if we follow your (il)logic.

I think I'm pretty clearly agreeing with this sentiment.

[StrangeSox]

Isn't that the accusation for why Obama pretty much ignored investigating anything from the Bush presidency--he'd be opening himself and future presidents up?

[StrangeSox]

Crazy Georgia State Rep. introduces bill that would make miscarriages illegal and punishable by death.

 

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02...penalty-georgia

[BigSqwert]

Crazy Georgia State Rep. introduces bill that would make miscarriages illegal and punishable by death.

 

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02...penalty-georgia

 

WTF?!

[StrangeSox]

He's also proposed legally changing terminology from "rape victims" to "rape accusers" and doing away with state driver's license because it infringes on unalienable rights!

 

That there are crazy people isn't surprising. That they get elected to govern us is frightening.

[Jenksismyhero]

Crazy Georgia State Rep. introduces bill that would make miscarriages illegal and punishable by death.

 

http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02...penalty-georgia

 

 

Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage.

 

Wrong. Like every other law in the country, it'd be the states' burden to prove that it was human involvement that caused the miscarriage. Not the other way around. You'd think these "smart" bloggers/reports would understand that basic tenant of our judicial system.

 

Regardless, a pretty stupid bill from a pretty stupid politician.

[BigSqwert]

He's also proposed legally changing terminology from "rape victims" to "rape accusers" and doing away with state driver's license because it infringes on unalienable rights!

 

That there are crazy people isn't surprising. That they get elected to govern us is frightening.

That cannot be understated.

[Jenksismyhero]

Of course, the first premise of your argument, that "there are worse tortures so how can you complain about this" is clearly faulty.

 

The second is then undercut by the fact that he hasn't even been sentenced to anything or found guilty by any court. It's not even punishment...it's inflicting of humiliation and psychological torture to get him to confess and testify against other people in the case (assange).

 

How does that make it faulty? We justify all sorts of otherwise illegal acts by using that tactic. "I know adult pornography when I see it." It's an undefinable word, so of course we're going to argue about whether X or Y is torture and justify it by comparing it to other acts.

[StrangeSox]

Wrong. Like every other law in the country, it'd be the states' burden to prove that it was human involvement that caused the miscarriage. Not the other way around. You'd think these "smart" bloggers/reports would understand that basic tenant of our judicial system.

 

Regardless, a pretty stupid bill from a pretty stupid politician.

 

The problem here is that "human involvement" is an incredibly vague term and would be damn near impossible to defend against. Add in the mandatory reporting of all miscarriages in the state and you've got serious problems.

 

Also, they require that the doctor try to save the mother and fetus in all situations--there are plenty where the doctor must choose to save the mother at the expense of the fetus or they both die.

 

 

Oh, and I like the part about Georgia not being subject to SCOTUS rulings and how the Federal government can only define five specific things.

[StrangeSox]

How does that make it faulty? We justify all sorts of otherwise illegal acts by using that tactic. "I know adult pornography when I see it." It's an undefinable word, so of course we're going to argue about whether X or Y is torture and justify it by comparing it to other acts.

 

That doesn't make sense. Something either is or is not torture and it's not based on comparisons to other acts. If that was true, that would mean that if we could come up with things significantly more terrible than say pulling out fingernails, well, we have to question if pulling out fingernails really is torture!

[Soxbadger]

I agree with Jenks obviously, but there is no way to explicitly define torture. Any definition would have to include exact examples and would only as good as the list. Thus in a case where you can not explicitly define torture (what may be torture to me, may be your favorite thing in the world) we have to use comparisons.

 

In my opinion, I know what torture is, I know the line when I see it. I dont think I can explain the line because its a question of fact, and depending on the facts of the case, there may be a different line. This isnt an objective test where 1+1= 2, its subjective. If you know some one is extremely terrified of the color purple, putting them in a purple room may be torture. But that just shows that its a fact based question, each time you have to look at the facts and determine "Is this torture?" The only way to determine is based on other known torture.

 

(edit)

 

And its not about extremes. We already know pulling out fingernails is torture, that is an easy one. It doesnt matter if I can think of something much worse.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Soxbadger

[Jenksismyhero]

That doesn't make sense. Something either is or is not torture and it's not based on comparisons to other acts. If that was true, that would mean that if we could come up with things significantly more terrible than say pulling out fingernails, well, we have to question if pulling out fingernails really is torture!

 

First, we don't always know whether something is torture or not. There's not a book out there defining every single act that is/isn't torture. Second, who said anything about moving the goalposts? We've established that somewhere on one side of the torture spectrum is pulling fingernails. That stays put. Similarly, we know certain acts that are not torture, like putting people in prison. Any act in between (or even outside of those two examples) are up for debate. That doesn't mean each act we've decided already is suddenly up for debate again.

 

And how else would you determine whether something like humiliation is torture? You have to compare it to other acts of torture and determine if it rises up to that level.

 

I guess i'm failing to see what's faulty about this way of defining terms. It's what I do every day in all of the legal briefs I write. I compare and contrast factual patterns to fit certain laws. The law doesn't set forth every possible factual scenario, so there's going to be some grey area. That's the only logical way to make a determination IMO.

[BigSqwert]

This disgusted me:

 

He chronicled war-torn Iraq through the eyes of its citizens, but filmmaker Usama Alshaibi says he didn't feel the sting of violence until he crashed a house party last weekend in the tiny Iowa town of Fairfield.

 

"Right when I walked in, somebody asked me my name. . .and I said, 'My name is Usama.' That's when they started hitting me," said Alshaibi, 41, who lived in Chicago for 16 years, and directed and starred in the acclaimed "Nice Bombs."

 

One of four men punched Alshaibi in the face, knocking off his eyeglasses. Three others joined in, punching Alshaibi in the face and head, knocking him down, he said.

 

"I was pretty scared, and I felt like I had gotten myself in a bad situation," Alshaibi said.

 

If the reason for the punch was unclear in those first seconds, Alshaibi said he knew when his attackers started calling him Osama bin Laden and racial slurs.

 

Edited March 8, 2011 by BigSqwert

[BigSqwert]

Religious douche wad Mike Huckabee:

 

“…I do think [Pres. Obama] has a different worldview and I think it’s, in part, molded out of a very different experience. Most of us grew up going to Boy Scout meetings and, you know, our communities were filled with Rotary Clubs, not madrassas.”

 

Regarding his son, a former camp counselor for the Scouts:

 

At age 18, Huckabee’s son David was fired by the Scouts as a camp counselor after he and another counselor captured a stray dog, hanged him by the neck, slit his throat and stoned him to death.

 

The elder Huckabee, who was governor of Arkansas at the time, later fired a local prosecutor who had investigated the matter with the aim of filing animal cruelty charges against David Huckabee and the other boy. In the end, other than being fired by the Boy Scouts, the boys were never held accountable for killing the helpless dog.

via

Edited March 8, 2011 by BigSqwert

[kapkomet]

Huckabee is becoming Sarah Palin's douchebag.

[StrangeSox]

Huckabee is becoming Sarah Palin's douchebag.

 

 

I don't know what this means but I

 

 

Also, Illinois abolished the death penalty.