The Democrat Thread

[StrangeSox]

I won't vote for a terrible candidate who's done a crap job and stabbed his more liberal constituency in the back repeatedly for over 2 years by caving in to Republicans over and over and over.

 

That Obama is inevitably better than whatever terrible candidate the Republicans will offer is not an argument in favor of perpetuating our terrible, doomed system.

[Balta1701]

I won't vote for a terrible candidate who's done a crap job and stabbed his more liberal constituency in the back repeatedly for over 2 years by caving in to Republicans over and over and over.

 

That Obama is inevitably better than whatever terrible candidate the Republicans will offer is not an argument in favor of perpetuating our terrible, doomed system.

And not voting does what?

[StrangeSox]

Not voting?

[Balta1701]

Not voting?

Are you assuming that a 3rd party candidate not named LaRouche will qualify for the ballot?

[StrangeSox]

If I'm left between someone I know will be terrible on the issues that I find important, someone who will claim to care about them but demonstrably is either lying or weak and ineffective or LaRouche, I will refrain from voting for President in 2012. In 2008, the Green Party and the Libertarian Party both fielded candidates on the Illinois ballot for President as well as several independents.

 

Obama has been "less than good" so far. The Democrats, what with their SuperMajority for two years, have been terrible. They've been Republican-lite at best. I see no reason why I should vote in support of that.

Edited April 25, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

3rd party candidate does not meet the criteria of being the Republican or Democratic nominee anyways.

 

You can complain about the system, but the system is what we have. And in the system we have, the only way for your opinion to matter is to play by the rules that the system has created. Those rules (for the time being) are 2 legitimate contenders, only 1 can win.

 

Maybe one day a third party will rise to power (its happened before), but for right now, there are Democrats and Republicans. If you generally lean Democrat, all your not voting does is equate to a vote for Republicans.

 

Ill never find a candidate I agree with, its just picking the lesser of 2 evils.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Soxbadger

[BigSqwert]

A sharp decrease in votes from progressives for Obama could also signal to the party that we're fed up with them ignoring us.

[StrangeSox]

"Dem or Rep" is a false dichotomy, that's the point, it's the reason both parties are objectively terrible. Yeah, I'm closer to the Democrats than the Republicans, but I still think they're generally a terrible party that won't advance an agenda I agree with. If the choices were the Republican party or the Constitution party, I wouldn't vote Republican just because I think they're less terrible than the Constitution party.

 

I'm not going to pretend that I support Obama, and he won't get my vote. I know it's a doomed effort, but the attitude of "Welp gotta pick the dem, at least he doesn't openly support violations of civil and human rights, just in practice!" is a big part of the damn problem. No third party is going to rise to power if I vote for a democrat because he's slightly less terrible than a republican.

 

Listen to Malcom X's The Bullet or the Ballot speech, especially around the 30 min mark which is the part I quoted, and tell me you can't just replace Dixiecrats with Blue Dogs and get the 2011 version.

[BigSqwert]

I pray for the day that someone like Kucinich is considered a favorite. I don't care if you think I'm crazy.

[StrangeSox]

Ill never find a candidate I agree with, its just picking the lesser of 2 evils.

 

I would support Kucinich even if I don't agree with him on everything.

[StrangeSox]

There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.

[Soxbadger]

No third party is going to rise to power if I vote for a democrat because he's slightly less terrible than a republican.

 

No third party is going to rise to power without significant sources of money.

 

Its not about votes, its about the price to get yourself there. The only way a third party will spring from the ground without the necessity of significant sources of capital would be someone who in and of themselves, is already well known., Some one who has a cult of personality that could break through the wall that the 2 party system has created. And even then, it has failed. Teddy ran as a third party and lost, Perot lost.

 

What should not be forgotten is that in either of those years, if you added Roosevelt to Taft or Perot to Bush, the mainstream party candidate would have won.

 

Ballots arent for being pragmatic, they are for winning and losing.

[BigSqwert]

Ballots arent for being pragmatic, they are for winning and losing.

Then I won't help either of the 2 main party candidates win. I guess that equates to them 'losing'....my vote at least.

[StrangeSox]

No third party is going to rise to power without significant sources of money.

 

Its not about votes, its about the price to get yourself there. The only way a third party will spring from the ground without the necessity of significant sources of capital would be someone who in and of themselves, is already well known., Some one who has a cult of personality that could break through the wall that the 2 party system has created. And even then, it has failed. Teddy ran as a third party and lost, Perot lost.

 

What should not be forgotten is that in either of those years, if you added Roosevelt to Taft or Perot to Bush, the mainstream party candidate would have won.

 

Ballots arent for being pragmatic, they are for winning and losing.

 

I feel I lose with either the Democrats or the Republicans. Why should I vote for them?

[Soxbadger]

The one you lose least with?

 

Unless you actually believe that neither party will be any worse or better for you, and in that instance not voting doesnt make a difference.

 

 

[bmags]

The dixiecrats did bolt, and while i'm damn glad they aren't a part of the democratic party, the switch from democrat to republican in the south led a dominant conservative run in american politics. IF you think the democrats didn't do enough to go forward, I hope you are comfortable with a huge roll back. The republicans are deadset on repealing medicare, and the liberals start an open revolt on the democrats? Give me a break. You guys are whiners, incredibly shortsighted, and incredibly wreckless.

[StrangeSox]

I'd rather not compromise my beliefs and ideals to end up with a slightly less-terrible-than-Republicans alternative. Democrats do not represent my politics in theory or in practice. Continuing to vote for Democrats will not get us closer to any real progressive agenda, and so I won't vote for them.

[BigSqwert]

I'd rather not compromise my beliefs and ideals to end up with a slightly less-terrible-than-Republicans alternative. Democrats do not represent my politics in theory or in practice. Continuing to vote for Democrats will not get us closer to any real progressive agenda, and so I won't vote for them.

^This. Who the f*** are they even trying to court with their actions? Conservatives?

Edited April 25, 2011 by BigSqwert

[bmags]

not compromising your beliefs does not mean you cut off your nose to spite your face. You can either be productive, or a petulant child. But when president Palin rolls into office and starts passing archaic s***, defunds health care and education, and anything remotely progressive just because it's progressive, I don't want to see you complain one f***ing time. Because you put her there.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I pray for the day that someone like Kucinich is considered a favorite. I don't care if you think I'm crazy.

 

 

This x 1,000,000

[BigSqwert]

not compromising your beliefs does not mean you cut off your nose to spite your face. You can either be productive, or a petulant child. But when president Palin rolls into office and starts passing archaic s***, defunds health care and education, and anything remotely progressive just because it's progressive, I don't want to see you complain one f***ing time. Because you put her there.

I will never again vote for someone just because of their party. And I feel great about myself knowing that. Call me whatever name you want.

[bmags]

I will. Feel great when a bunch of old people die because your candidate wasn't perfect.

[BigSqwert]

And I hope there's a Dem primary in 2012.

[BigSqwert]

I will. Feel great when a bunch of old people die because your candidate wasn't perfect.

I hear all of these "The sky will fall!!" predictions every 4 years. I heard them when Kerry was running in '04 and lost and somehow we're all still here.

[StrangeSox]

not compromising your beliefs does not mean you cut off your nose to spite your face. You can either be productive, or a petulant child. But when president Palin rolls into office and starts passing archaic s***, defunds health care and education, and anything remotely progressive just because it's progressive, I don't want to see you complain one f***ing time. Because you put her there.

 

Voting for Democrats isn't helpful.

 

Not voting for a terrible Democrat isn't acting like a "petulant child" but instead voting for a candidate you support and voicing your support for their politics and your opposition to mainstream Democrat and Republican politics.

 

Not voting for a terrible Democrat to keep out a more terrible Republican isn't a vote for a Republican; that's a s*** argument put out by Democrat apologists and people who want to keep the current two-party s***fest going.

 

Look, 2009-2011 laid it out pretty clearly--the Democrats either don't give a s*** about progressive policies (yes) or they're incompetent cowards incapable of governing and fighting back against terrible Republican policies (also yes). Why does their terrible performance over the last two years deserve my vote in 2012?