The Democrat Thread

[Y2HH]

Are you thinking Reagan was a good President.. Why ? He was probably one of the worst in the last 50 years..

 

I think all presidents have their merits and their flaws.

 

To say Reagan was one of the worst presidents in 50 years is just dismissible biased partisan insanity considering Carter and Nixon fall in that span. The fact that you heralded Carter as a "good" president says it all...Carter was one of the worst presidents of ALL time, not just int he last 50 years...and you consider him a great president?

 

Shut off the bias, then we can talk.

 

Reagan ushered in an era of prosperity unmatched by most, in a time where America was all but a blown engine that was stopped dead on the freeway. Do I think he did everything right? No. No president does. But was he bad? Hell no. To say otherwise is just, IMO, ignorant.

[StrangeSox]

Shut off the bias, then we can talk.

 

Reagan ushered in an era of prosperity unmatched by most, in a time where America was all but a blown engine that was stopped dead on the freeway.

 

 

I could show you graphs showing how that unmatched prosperity wasn't seen by most!

Edited September 9, 2011 by StrangeSox

[GoSox05]

I think all presidents have their merits and their flaws.

 

To say Reagan was one of the worst presidents in 50 years is just dismissible biased partisan insanity considering Carter and Nixon fall in that span. The fact that you heralded Carter as a "good" president says it all...Carter was one of the worst presidents of ALL time, not just int he last 50 years...and you consider him a great president?

 

Shut off the bias, then we can talk.

 

Reagan ushered in an era of prosperity unmatched by most, in a time where America was all but a blown engine that was stopped dead on the freeway. Do I think he did everything right? No. No president does. But was he bad? Hell no. To say otherwise is just, IMO, ignorant.

 

Was supporting the Contras a flaw?

[Y2HH]

Was supporting the Contras a flaw?

 

Is Monday morning quarterbacking a flaw?

 

In hindsight, we can discuss billions of mistakes made by past Presidents.

[Y2HH]

 

I could show you graphs showing how that unmatched prosperity wasn't seen by most!

 

What prosperity is, is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I maintain that things have NEVER been better for us than they are now.

 

Don't know about the rest of you, but my life is pretty f***ing awesome...for as s***ty as things apparently are. Even my out of work friend isn't having that hard of a time...somehow.

 

People have lost sight of what a hard life is. They really, really have. Growing up poor, I guess I recognized and remembered what it was like.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Y2HH

[Rex Kickass]

I think all presidents have their merits and their flaws.

 

To say Reagan was one of the worst presidents in 50 years is just dismissible biased partisan insanity considering Carter and Nixon fall in that span. The fact that you heralded Carter as a "good" president says it all...Carter was one of the worst presidents of ALL time, not just int he last 50 years...and you consider him a great president?

 

Shut off the bias, then we can talk.

 

Reagan ushered in an era of prosperity unmatched by most, in a time where America was all but a blown engine that was stopped dead on the freeway. Do I think he did everything right? No. No president does. But was he bad? Hell no. To say otherwise is just, IMO, ignorant.

 

The truth is, neither president was really that good.

 

You could make that argument, but you would also need to ignore that the person that basically helped steer the government out of its economic morass was a Carter nominee. (He also, arguably, caused the 1981 recession in an attempt to curb inflation.)

 

You can't really pin aiding the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan on Reagan, because he just amped up a policy that Carter had already begun pursuing in 1980. Carter also stopped shipments of wheat to African nations in famine during the late 1970's as part of the US pissing match with the Soviet Union. The biggest peacetime proposal for defense spending increases happened under Carter in 1980 as well.

 

It was Reagan who negotiated with terrorists, not Carter by the way. There were a slew of things that I disagreed with Reagan on, not the least of which was Iran/Contra. But he also did many things right. I wouldn't say that Reagan was a failed presidency by any means - but it also wasn't a Presidency that did big things. Conversely, I wouldn't call Carter's presidency a failure either, but I would call him a failure as a politician during that time.

[VictoryMC98]

I think all presidents have their merits and their flaws.

 

To say Reagan was one of the worst presidents in 50 years is just dismissible biased partisan insanity considering Carter and Nixon fall in that span. The fact that you heralded Carter as a "good" president says it all...Carter was one of the worst presidents of ALL time, not just int he last 50 years...and you consider him a great president?

 

Shut off the bias, then we can talk.

 

Reagan ushered in an era of prosperity unmatched by most, in a time where America was all but a blown engine that was stopped dead on the freeway. Do I think he did everything right? No. No president does. But was he bad? Hell no. To say otherwise is just, IMO, ignorant.

 

I would ask the same, if I can call it that. Please stop believing in the Reagan myth of how great he was, and bad Carter was..

 

The prosperity was in spite not because of him. Recovery came about because Oil Prices dropped, which he had nothing to do with. If Carter was Reelected he would have had that benefit, as it happened in 1983. Reagan gets credit for something he had ZERO to do with.

 

There is very little Reagan "got right".. IMO. Everything the GOP now stands against, Reagan did.. Which confuses me.

[Y2HH]

The truth is, neither president was really that good.

 

You could make that argument, but you would also need to ignore that the person that basically helped steer the government out of its economic morass was a Carter nominee. (He also, arguably, caused the 1981 recession in an attempt to curb inflation.)

 

You can't really pin aiding the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan on Reagan, because he just amped up a policy that Carter had already begun pursuing in 1980. Carter also stopped shipments of wheat to African nations in famine during the late 1970's as part of the US pissing match with the Soviet Union. The biggest peacetime proposal for defense spending increases happened under Carter in 1980 as well.

 

It was Reagan who negotiated with terrorists, not Carter by the way. There were a slew of things that I disagreed with Reagan on, not the least of which was Iran/Contra. But he also did many things right. I wouldn't say that Reagan was a failed presidency by any means - but it also wasn't a Presidency that did big things. Conversely, I wouldn't call Carter's presidency a failure either, but I would call him a failure as a politician during that time.

 

This is probably, in all honesty, a better comparison...

 

Pinning anything on 1 person is never a great idea, either. Blaming Carter and only Carter for our woes back then isn't fair of me or anyone either, either. Congress/Senate have a LOT more to do with the state of our nation than a President does, IMO. That said, calling Reagan a bad president isn't fair.

 

Both had their merits and flaws, like any president.

 

 

[Y2HH]

I would ask the same, if I can call it that. Please stop believing in the Reagan myth of how great he was, and bad Carter was..

 

The prosperity was in spite not because of him. Recovery came about because Oil Prices dropped, which he had nothing to do with. If Carter was Reelected he would have had that benefit, as it happened in 1983. Reagan gets credit for something he had ZERO to do with.

 

There is very little Reagan "got right".. IMO. Everything the GOP now stands against, Reagan did.. Which confuses me.

 

I think we blame presidents for too much and credit them for too much, in all honesty.

 

Reagan wasn't a bad president by any stretch, but he wasn't the end all, either...

 

That said, people need to stop this President argument...as they have less to do with things than the senate/congress does.

[StrangeSox]

you gotta admit to the irony of saying "shut off the bias" and then following it immediately with a very flowery description of how Reagan saved America.

[Y2HH]

you gotta admit to the irony of saying "shut off the bias" and then following it immediately with a very flowery description of how Reagan saved America.

 

I kind of just did.

 

But to be fair to me, there are degrees of bias...and he's being WAY over the top.

 

As for a "flowery" description? Reagan is largely credited for ushering in a boom period because he was in the right place at the right time, and be that as it may, he's the one many people largely credit.

 

At the same time, he's also the one they largely blame for the eventual collapse of 'what does up must come down'.

 

So I wouldn't truly call what I said flowery, because I never told the ending to the story (which we all know). While he helped build this nation of banks, lawyers and corporations, he also gets blamed for it's eventual collapse.

 

The same can be said for Clinton, who ushered in the era of the .com boom...but if we credit him for that, we have to blame him for the collapse that followed.

 

We give presidents too much credit and too much blame.

 

Congress, the fed, etc...they're the policy makers. Not our Presidents.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

crosspost

[southsider2k5]

I would ask the same, if I can call it that. Please stop believing in the Reagan myth of how great he was, and bad Carter was..

 

The prosperity was in spite not because of him. Recovery came about because Oil Prices dropped, which he had nothing to do with. If Carter was Reelected he would have had that benefit, as it happened in 1983. Reagan gets credit for something he had ZERO to do with.

 

There is very little Reagan "got right".. IMO. Everything the GOP now stands against, Reagan did.. Which confuses me.

 

The idea that the Reagan administration had nothing to do with that is wrong. There was a purposeful attack on commodities prices in an attempt to take the knees of the Soviet Union out as that was their only access to hard currency.

[StrangeSox]

The idea that the Reagan administration had nothing to do with that is wrong. There was a purposeful attack on commodities prices in an attempt to take the knees of the Soviet Union out as that was their only access to hard currency.

 

Wasn't monetary policy at the time pretty key to taking out stagflation?

[VictoryMC98]

I think we blame presidents for too much and credit them for too much, in all honesty.

 

Reagan wasn't a bad president by any stretch, but he wasn't the end all, either...

 

That said, people need to stop this President argument...as they have less to do with things than the senate/congress does.

 

I agree with your last statement.

[VictoryMC98]

The idea that the Reagan administration had nothing to do with that is wrong. There was a purposeful attack on commodities prices in an attempt to take the knees of the Soviet Union out as that was their only access to hard currency.

 

OPEC controlled the OIL, which brought the rise of oil prices in the late 70's early 80's.. When they dropped OIL prices that is when we had the recovery..

 

How did Reagan have anything to do with that?

[southsider2k5]

OPEC controlled the OIL, which brought the rise of oil prices in the late 70's early 80's.. When they dropped OIL prices that is when we had the recovery..

 

How did Reagan have anything to do with that?

 

Who do you think talked the Saudi's into raising production so much?

[NorthSideSox72]

For the record, I was not originally discussing Reagan, Obama, Carter, Kennedy or any other President in terms of how good or bad they were. Just pointing out the mythological proportions that some people take their heroes to. I personally think Reagan did, overall, a better job than Carter... but I also think that many current conservatives are in laughable denial of the reality of what Reagan was (basically, he'd be thrown off the GOP bus in modern times for being far too liberal). Similarly, many Dems were (not so much ARE anymore) inflating the IDEA of Obama to be something that no President could possibly have achieved even in good circumstances, let alone with a deep recession, major deficit problems and multiple wars going on.

 

[Y2HH]

For the record, I was not originally discussing Reagan, Obama, Carter, Kennedy or any other President in terms of how good or bad they were. Just pointing out the mythological proportions that some people take their heroes to. I personally think Reagan did, overall, a better job than Carter... but I also think that many current conservatives are in laughable denial of the reality of what Reagan was (basically, he'd be thrown off the GOP bus in modern times for being far too liberal). Similarly, many Dems were (not so much ARE anymore) inflating the IDEA of Obama to be something that no President could possibly have achieved even in good circumstances, let alone with a deep recession, major deficit problems and multiple wars going on.

 

I pretty much agree with this 100%.

[VictoryMC98]

I pretty much agree with this 100%.

 

I can agree with this as well for the most part.

[Texsox]

Reagan's greatest strength, and Clinton, was their ability to be cheerleaders. Reagan rode in (literally) as a larger than life cowboy. He came in after the scandal of Nixon, the clumsiness of Ford, and the lack of boldness by Carter. perhaps toss in the not so distant memory of the fall of Saigon and getting our butts kicked in Vietnam. Here was someone that would help America get our swagger back. The previous presidents were not bad, we've never really had a disaster of a president. Reagan led Americans to believe in themselves.

 

Clinton came after 12 years of having gramps running the country. We had the swagger, but we were shuffling in a walker. Clinton came in, blowing a mad sax, rock music blaring and we combined swagger with youthful exuberance. Boom we started borrowing and spending.

 

The president can't change policy enough to really make a huge impact, but the president can change the mood of the country.

[Balta1701]

Clinton came after 12 years of having gramps running the country. We had the swagger, but we were shuffling in a walker. Clinton came in, blowing a mad sax, rock music blaring and we combined swagger with youthful exuberance. Boom we started borrowing and spending.

 

The president can't change policy enough to really make a huge impact, but the president can change the mood of the country.

Clinton started borrowing and spending? Do you realize how many graphs I can post on how incorrect that is?

[VictoryMC98]

Reagan's greatest strength, and Clinton, was their ability to be cheerleaders. Reagan rode in (literally) as a larger than life cowboy. He came in after the scandal of Nixon, the clumsiness of Ford, and the lack of boldness by Carter. perhaps toss in the not so distant memory of the fall of Saigon and getting our butts kicked in Vietnam. Here was someone that would help America get our swagger back. The previous presidents were not bad, we've never really had a disaster of a president. Reagan led Americans to believe in themselves.

 

Clinton came after 12 years of having gramps running the country. We had the swagger, but we were shuffling in a walker. Clinton came in, blowing a mad sax, rock music blaring and we combined swagger with youthful exuberance. Boom we started borrowing and spending.

 

The president can't change policy enough to really make a huge impact, but the president can change the mood of the country.

 

You do realize that Reagan was the first US president that turned the country from a creditor to a debtor, after this fail economy polices..? And what I mean is, we use to be able to lend to other countries, like China is now doing to us. Reagan's "Reaganonmics" stopped all of that.

 

Clinton was given a huge mess from the 12 years of Bush and Reagan.. and was able to end up with a surplus when he was finished. And a BJ as well LOL!

 

I will give you Reagan was a cheerleader, when we needed a leader. Carter told the country, look you can't spend your way to happiness, the country went FU and elected a guy who went.. sure you can. Carter told the truth, and the country, don't want to hear that we are in trouble.

[Texsox]

Clinton started borrowing and spending? Do you realize how many graphs I can post on how incorrect that is?

Americans started borrowing and spending. Sorry, I wasn't more exact. Consumer debt and wealth shot up.

[Balta1701]

Americans started borrowing and spending. Sorry, I wasn't more exact. Consumer debt and wealth shot up.

Consumer wealth shot up and that is bad?