The Democrat Thread

[southsider2k5]

You can't play the persecuted minority card when these negative attitudes towards Christianity seem to be largely based on rejection of Christianity being used to persecute minorities.

 

It's a study by a pro-Christian group trying to gather information on various demographics' views of Christianity. The data is what it is. It was only a week or two ago that I posted a thread with an lengthy article on the misogyny rampant in many Muslim cultures, and they are certainly no better on the LGBT front than conservative Christianity.

 

Did you actually read the link? It's not very long and it explains (anecdotally) why many Christian youth are ultimately leaving their church over this issue.

 

Nah, don't need to see any more anti-Christian stuff than I have seen here in the last couple of days honestly. The other thread was disgusting enough for me.

[StrangeSox]

The article is by a Christian who makes her living speaking and writing about Christianity. You have a pretty bizarre definition of "anti-Christian," but this sort of refusal to even address the problem that many people (even Christians!) have with anti-gay bigotry is definitely part of the problem.

 

Do you perceive "non-Christian" as "anti-Christian?"

 

[southsider2k5]

The article is by a Christian who makes her living speaking and writing about Christianity. You have a pretty bizarre definition of "anti-Christian," but this sort of refusal to even address the problem that many people (even Christians!) have with anti-gay bigotry is definitely part of the problem.

 

Do you perceive "non-Christian" as "anti-Christian?"

 

Again, after all of the unbridled hate in the other thread, I really don't care to read anymore right now.

[StrangeSox]

Ok, I guess I'll just say one last time that the article I linked is not anti-Christian at all unless you believe that being anti-gay is essential to Christianity (which I don't think you do)! It's actually pro-Christianity and laments church leaders' culture wars driving youth away from Christianity!

 

edit: I'm also struggling to recall "unbridled hate" in the other thread but that could just be selective memory (happened in the Trayvon thread and when I read back over it saw what I believe you were alluding to). Except my unbridled hatred of PZ-type New Atheism.

 

edit2: yeah, there's some posts in there that are pretty antagonistic, but they started in response to asking why people who don't believe in God don't go on raping sprees so...

Edited May 11, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

To be fair, there is an underlying issue with Christianity that does come through in my posts. I try to stay fair and not just rant, but it is really really hard. When parts of your family has been persecuted, murdered, because of Christianity, you just have a different perspective. I dont dislike people, not everyone is responsible, but when the acts are done in the name of the faith, what else can you blame but the faith? It wasnt just a few random individuals either.

 

Anyone can believe what they want, and just because someone is a Christian doesnt mean I dont like them or think less of them. It just is that I dont like what their faith has done in the past and sometimes I dont like what the faith does in the present either.

[StrangeSox]

I had no idea you had Jewish lineage until these threads.

[Soxbadger]

Thats because Im not really anything. My father is Jewish, my mother is Catholic. Im not really a Jew because my mother isnt a Jew and Judaism is maternal, therefore some Jews would never actually consider me a real Jew. Im not really a Christian, so I basically fit no where.

 

I generally dont make a big deal about it because I dont really care about people's religions. When half your family is Jewish and half is Christian, its just impossible to take hard lines in the sand, because either way your condemning people you care about.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

There's a lot of people who are still culturally religious while being atheist or agnostic, myself included. e.g. putting up a Christmas tree or celebrating Passover because they represent important cultural traditions.

[CanOfCorn]

Thats because Im not really anything. My father is Jewish, my mother is Catholic. Im not really a Jew because my mother isnt a Jew and Judaism is maternal, therefore some Jews would never actually consider me a real Jew. Im not really a Christian, so I basically fit no where.

 

I generally dont make a big deal about it because I dont really care about people's religions. When half your family is Jewish and half is Christian, its just impossible to take hard lines in the sand, because either way your condemning people you care about.

 

Side note not related to subject: I had a friend in college who had the opposite, his mother was Jewish and his father was a Christian Indian (can't remember if he was Catholic, but he was definitely Christian). This friend rushed a "Jewish" frat and he REALLY wanted in. They wouldn't let him in. He heard later, through friends who were in the frat, he was turned down because he didn't "look the part."

 

Now, I'm Jewish and I was infuriated. I repeated this story to my mom when she asked why I wasn't rushing one of these houses and said, "This is why." This friend was more Jewish than I was or am. In fact, he would've been deemed conservative on the scale. But still...nothing.

 

It still infuriates me to this day.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah I am not talking culturally. Culturally I do everything, Christmas, Hannukah, high holidays, whatever.

[Soxbadger]

Can,

 

Yeah the "tribe" aspect of certain Jewish people can be really off putting. My sister is hilariously super Jewish, she was President of the her BBYO chapter, etc. The funniest thing is she really only wants to marry a Jewish person and raise her kids Jewish. I always find that so ironic because my dad, isnt actually religious at all and probably is an atheist.

[CanOfCorn]

Can,

 

Yeah the "tribe" aspect of certain Jewish people can be really off putting. My sister is hilariously super Jewish, she was President of the her BBYO chapter, etc. The funniest thing is she really only wants to marry a Jewish person and raise her kids Jewish. I always find that so ironic because my dad, isnt actually religious at all and probably is an atheist.

 

I also have an Orthodox friend who goes 6 hours between dairy and meat. His now-wife, pre-marriage, was a 1 hour between. He never asked her to go to his position, but he did say, if you do, you can't go back. Now, I have travelled with this guy more than once and he goes out of his way to make sure he isn't in everyone else's way. He'll tape the light switches so we can't turn it off, he'll cook everything on tin foil or separate a couple of pots and pans, just for him. This is the way I think religion should be. It's personal, but if you want to truly be involved in his life, i.e. his wife, it's her choice, but she has to know there's no going back.

 

I respect the hell out of him and his beliefs and he's a great friend.

 

Anyway, back to the original thread...

 

 

[StrangeSox]

I also have an Orthodox friend who goes 6 hours between dairy and meat. His now-wife, pre-marriage, was a 1 hour between. He never asked her to go to his position, but he did say, if you do, you can't go back. Now, I have travelled with this guy more than once and he goes out of his way to make sure he isn't in everyone else's way. He'll tape the light switches so we can't turn it off, he'll cook everything on tin foil or separate a couple of pots and pans, just for him. This is the way I think religion should be. It's personal, but if you want to truly be involved in his life, i.e. his wife, it's her choice, but she has to know there's no going back.

 

I respect the hell out of him and his beliefs and he's a great friend.

 

Anyway, back to the original thread...

We recently remodeled our kitchen and I was unaware of all of the kosher kitchen options.

[StrangeSox]

Catholic Bishops are attacking the Girl Scouts for their association with nefarious groups like Doctors Without Borders, the Sierra Club and Oxfam.

 

This is the same sort of culture war crap that the article I linked to was lamenting.

[BigSqwert]

Someone remind me again why the church is tax exempt?

[southsider2k5]

Someone remind me again why the church is tax exempt?

 

The Catholic Church is the biggest charitable organization on the planet.

[BigSqwert]

The Catholic Church is the biggest charitable organization on the planet.

Not saying you're wrong but it's difficult to find data to substantiate this claim. Or maybe I'm terrible at search terms.

[StrangeSox]

There are a whole bunch of different Catholic charities out there and the Church itself probably doesn't release global financial statements, so it'd be hard to check.

[BigSqwert]

And even if they are among the biggest charities, they still pour tons of money into political campaigns to fight gay marriage and other issues. That's where I was going with when I asked about their tax exemption status.

[southsider2k5]

Not saying you're wrong but it's difficult to find data to substantiate this claim. Or maybe I'm terrible at search terms.

 

 

There are a whole bunch of different Catholic charities out there and the Church itself probably doesn't release global financial statements, so it'd be hard to check.

 

Between things like the soup kitchens, the orphanages, the shelters, the Church puts billions into communities. They don't release any records, and they aren't recognized in the same category as say a Red Cross/Crescent type of group. I remember reading it before, but of course I have no idea when.

[BigSqwert]

‘Trayvon Martin’ gun range targets sold out in two days.

 

link

[StrangeSox]

Between things like the soup kitchens, the orphanages, the shelters, the Church puts billions into communities. They don't release any records, and they aren't recognized in the same category as say a Red Cross/Crescent type of group. I remember reading it before, but of course I have no idea when.

 

I've heard that before and don't see a good reason to doubt it. They're a gigantic global institution in every country in the world. The Red Cross is huge but it's not really comparable to the Roman Catholic Church and its countless subsidiary organizations.

[BigSqwert]

BTW, anyone read this? I'm fascinated.

 

The Year of Living Biblically

[StrangeSox]

This is what happened to two women who applied for a marriage license in NC:

 

[BigSqwert]

Love the update at the bottom of this blog post.