The Democrat Thread

[NorthSideSox72]

And you honestly don't think, after some of the quotes that have hit this week, that RSO isn't for a "financial nanny state"? I know, not that extreme, but seriously, stop and think about it. People need to be really careful what they wish for.

He's for something closer to one in any case, yes.

 

This is, and has been, my biggest concern with Obama - tax and spending policy.

 

Ultimately though, he won't get done as much as he wants to.

 

[lostfan]

Roland Martin is my boy.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/14/mar...aign/index.html

 

(CNN) -- Do you know what was so great about Magic Johnson, Larry Bird and Michael Jordan? They were three of the biggest trash talkers in the history of the NBA, but they had the game to back it up.

 

Somebody should tell that to Gov. Sarah Palin.

 

Sen. John McCain's vice presidential running mate has been running around the country, firing up her -- yes, her, and not necessarily McCain's -- loyal supporters by blasting Sen. Barack Obama for "palling around with terrorists" and demanding that the American people know exactly when he learned of the past of 1960s radical William Ayers.

 

She has stoked the crowds by saying, "This is not a man who sees America the way that you and I see America." We all know what that is designed to do: Portray Obama as a foreigner who isn't as American as she. Or you. Or Joe Six-pack, the hockey mom, soccer mom, Wal-Mart mom, NASCAR dad and the other coded words she uses regularly.

 

But what is truly pathetic is that Palin talks tough, but is really scared of facing her own issues.

 

Since she is good at proclaiming that the American people need to know who Barack Obama is -- an attempt to paint him as a shady figure who might occupy the White House -- the American people deserve to hear Palin answer if her husband, Todd, a former member of the Alaska Independence Party, agreed with its founder, who wanted to secede from the union.

 

Is there anything more anti-American than wanting to sever ties with the country? Send Roland Martin your questions and listen to his program on CNNRadio and CNN.com Live, Thursday at noon ET.

 

It's critical that Palin answer questions about whether she disagrees with John McCain's criticism of the Bush administration's decision to remove North Korea from the terrorist nation list. She spoke in favor of it. McCain didn't. Are they on the same page or not?

 

The American people deserve to hear from Palin as to why she didn't say a word to rebuke the hateful, pathetic and degrading comments made at rallies featuring her, such as when someone in the crowd called Obama a terrorist, someone else shouted, "Off with his head" and others suggested he is a traitor.

 

Lastly, don't you think the self-described maverick needs to own up to what really happened with the firing of the commissioner in Alaska? She was declared by a special investigator to have been within her rights in firing the commissioner, but she was blasted for abuse of power and violating the state's ethics act.

 

So what did she say in a conference call with Alaska reporters -- who were not allowed by the McCain camp to ask follow-up questions? That she was cleared of all wrongdoing, legally and ethically.

 

That's right. She repeated over and over and over an absolute lie, and we are supposed to say, "Hey, it's all fine. She winks at us. We love her hockey mom schtick. Don't worry about that abuse of power thing."

 

Well, after having to deal with Vice President Dick Cheney being accused of beating the drum for war by berating and pushing our intelligence apparatus to match his political views on Iraq, don't you think we should really care about someone who has been accused in a report, authorized by Democrats and Republicans, of using their power and influence to get their way?

 

Sure, her supporters will say she's talked to the "media." She was questioned by Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh and that self-described journalist -- yes, he really called himself that -- Fox's Sean Hannity.

 

Palin has done interviews with ABC's Charlie Gibson and CBS's Katie Couric, and local TV folks. But why is she so scared of NBC's Brian Williams? And why is she so fearful of CNN?

 

Does she somehow think that our big guns like Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper and Campbell Brown are just too tough in asking questions? My goodness, Tina Fey has actually done more interviews about playing Sarah Palin than Sarah Palin has done about being Sarah Palin!

 

Hmmm. McCain, Sen. Joe Biden, Barack and Michelle Obama, Sen. Hillary Clinton, Cindy McCain and even McCain's 95-year-old momma and Palin's daddy have all done interviews with CNN, sharing their thoughts on the campaign. But Palin? Not a whisper.

 

It's clear that Palin really isn't a true frontier woman. See, when you tote a gun, carry a big stick and spit fire, you aren't afraid to take on all comers.

 

So, Sarah, if you want to talk big on the campaign trail to those audiences that don't talk back, go right ahead. But if you truly are the maverick politician you say you are, come on and talk to us soft, coddled, elitist journalists. Surely we aren't as tough as the moose you like to take down with your Second Amendment-protected hunting rifle.

[BigSqwert]

Roland Martin is my boy.

 

[kapkomet]

He's for something closer to one in any case, yes.

 

This is, and has been, my biggest concern with Obama - tax and spending policy.

 

Ultimately though, he won't get done as much as he wants to.

In all seriousness, I'm not trying to think for you in particular but to the average voter, this should define the election. But, it's not going to. And he will get a lot more done then you think he will because he's going to have damn close to a super majority.

[Balta1701]

In all seriousness, I'm not trying to think for you in particular but to the average voter, this should define the election. But, it's not going to. And he will get a lot more done then you think he will because he's going to have damn close to a super majority.

And you know what? You guys had your chance. And all we've seen for the last 8 years are job losses, a truly anemic recovery for everyone except the richest of the rich, median income declining relative to inflation by over $1000 such that your average American is worse off, a dramatic increase in household debt to the point that the average American was taking money out of their savings every month, income inequality reaching levels not seen since 1929, and now seemingly the worst credit mess to hit the financial system since the great depression.

 

You know what? Maybe Senator Obama has wrong ideas, maybe he'll make things worse. But at this point, I think that trying the ol trickle down has just gotten so many people soaked in urine that it's time to try something different.

[kapkomet]

And you know what? You guys had your chance. And all we've seen for the last 8 years are job losses, a truly anemic recovery for everyone except the richest of the rich, median income declining relative to inflation by over $1000 such that your average American is worse off, a dramatic increase in household debt to the point that the average American was taking money out of their savings every month, income inequality reaching levels not seen since 1929, and now seemingly the worst credit mess to hit the financial system since the great depression.

 

You know what? Maybe Senator Obama has wrong ideas, maybe he'll make things worse. But at this point, I think that trying the ol trickle down has just gotten so many people soaked in urine that it's time to try something different.

And you know what? It's not the GOP's fault. But you find it easy to say "you had your chance"... that's laughable, so have the Democrats, and guess what? Their crap don't work so well either - Bill Clinton was just smart enough to go with the GOP in the 1990's, until the GOP started going left, so maybe in that sense, it is their fault... but it's not for the reason you say.

[bmags]

From Ben Smith today:

 

I don't know what is all that shocking, people motivated by the past? They want to vote out the previous party in power, they want a specific issue? How is this stupid?

[Soxy]

And you know what? It's not the GOP's fault. But you find it easy to say "you had your chance"... that's laughable, so have the Democrats, and guess what? Their crap don't work so well either - Bill Clinton was just smart enough to go with the GOP in the 1990's, until the GOP started going left, so maybe in that sense, it is their fault... but it's not for the reason you say.

How did the GOP "go left"? You mean financially?

[kapkomet]

How did the GOP "go left"? You mean financially?

Yes, and it's their downfall. From that sense, they deserve some of what they're getting.

 

 

[HuskyCaucasian]

Palin lives in Imagination Land:

The (troopergate) report that came out also was very clear in that there was no unethical or unlawful behavior on my part. … No abuse of power there at all.

[NorthSideSox72]

Yes, and it's their downfall. From that sense, they deserve some of what they're getting.

The GOP's downfall has been the movement of the party away from their core values, and those of the country, in both directions. They moved left in order to spend-spend-spend. They moved right in order to try to force their morality on the nation on social issues. And they decided that a war to "fix" the Middle East was a good idea.

 

Those are what caused the downfall of the GOP in recent years.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

And you know what? It's not the GOP's fault. But you find it easy to say "you had your chance"... that's laughable, so have the Democrats, and guess what? Their crap don't work so well either - Bill Clinton was just smart enough to go with the GOP in the 1990's, until the GOP started going left, so maybe in that sense, it is their fault... but it's not for the reason you say.

Well, SOME of those things are the GOP's fault, to at least some extent. Their tax policies, on balance, haven't been good. They wholly ignored good energy policy initiatives and the environment.

 

And SOME of those things fall on both parties - not addressing holes in the financial system, for example.

 

And yet others are mostly beyond government control for either party.

 

[kapkomet]

The GOP's downfall has been the movement of the party away from their core values, and those of the country, in both directions. They moved left in order to spend-spend-spend. They moved right in order to try to force their morality on the nation on social issues. And they decided that a war to "fix" the Middle East was a good idea.

 

Those are what caused the downfall of the GOP in recent years.

I agree, but it's not enough to allow me to sit there and say, "I'm voting for RSO". There's no way in hell. Voting for McCain is just about like voting for Bill Clinton on the political scale, that's how far left the GOP has gone (save for the idiocy on shoving morality down out throats, which you rightly point out and it's a turn off of mine as well and highly disappointing).

[HuskyCaucasian]

McCain Spokesman: No Lobbyists Here. Nope, not a one. We're clean as a whistle.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I agree, but it's not enough to allow me to sit there and say, "I'm voting for RSO". There's no way in hell. Voting for McCain is just about like voting for Bill Clinton on the political scale, that's how far left the GOP has gone (save for the idiocy on shoving morality down out throats, which you rightly point out and it's a turn off of mine as well and highly disappointing).

See, the GOP has moved right a lot more than left. The ONLY thing they've moved left on is overspending. That's it. In many areas, they've moved right. They've walked a lot further from the center than they were, in general. So, it shouldn't be a surprise that the nation has said, in 2006 and now in 2008, that the GOP has lots its keys to the government. And I'm with them in that regard.

 

I'm with Obama on more issues than I am with McCain, though not by much. I also think Obama is a stronger leader, and IMO more importantly, a stronger MANAGER. But, the fact that the GOP has moved so far right (other than spending) is also a factor in my mind, especially on Congressional offices.

 

[lostfan]

The GOP has completely abandoned civil liberties which I find odd because that's a conservative ideology. They mock the liberals for it now.

[kapkomet]

See, the GOP has moved right a lot more than left. The ONLY thing they've moved left on is overspending. That's it. In many areas, they've moved right. They've walked a lot further from the center than they were, in general. So, it shouldn't be a surprise that the nation has said, in 2006 and now in 2008, that the GOP has lots its keys to the government. And I'm with them in that regard.

 

I'm with Obama on more issues than I am with McCain, though not by much. I also think Obama is a stronger leader, and IMO more importantly, a stronger MANAGER. But, the fact that the GOP has moved so far right (other than spending) is also a factor in my mind, especially on Congressional offices.

I'm derailing the s*** out of the McCain sucks and RSO is God thread, but what the hell.

 

What do you think the GOP has moved right on? I would even say they've moved right of "traditional conservatives" - or those who model "conservatism" like Reagan. And I do agree that it's a bad thing.

 

I just saw LF's post, and yes, I agree somewhat, but then again, I really don't - because I think that's a mirage. And don't forget that the Dems went right along with it - so no, they don't mock Dems, because the dirty secret is they're not really idealogically that different on the "civil liberties" issue.

Edited October 15, 2008 by kapkomet

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm derailing the s*** out of the McCain sucks and RSO is God thread, but what the hell.

 

What do you think the GOP has moved right on? I would even say they've moved right of "traditional conservatives" - or those who model "conservatism" like Reagan. And I do agree that it's a bad thing.

 

I just saw LF's post, and yes, I agree somewhat, but then again, I really don't - because I think that's a mirage. And don't forget that the Dems went right along with it - so no, they don't mock Dems, because the dirty secret is they're not really idealogically that different on the "civil liberties" issue.

LF's civil liberties is a good general topic. What they've really moved away from is the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights, over group rights. They don't care for warrants anymore, they stamp all the signed bills with a "whatever, its what I say it is" stamp, they try to hide POW's in a legal black hole, they try to protect telecoms who violated privacy laws, they want to tell people who they can and cannot marry or spend their time with, they want to manhandle state governments to do their bidding... get the picture? They simply tossed aside the value of individual and states' rights.

 

And yes, some Dems have gone along with some of those things too. And I've expressed displeasure over it in here before.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

LF's civil liberties is a good general topic. What they've really moved away from is the concept of INDIVIDUAL rights, over group rights. They don't care for warrants anymore, they stamp all the signed bills with a "whatever, its what I say it is" stamp, they try to hide POW's in a legal black hole, they try to protect telecoms who violated privacy laws, they want to tell people who they can and cannot marry or spend their time with, they want to manhandle state governments to do their bidding... get the picture? They simply tossed aside the value of individual and states' rights.

 

And yes, some Dems have gone along with some of those things too. And I've expressed displeasure over it in here before.

By the way, to add to this line of thinking... strange as this sounds, one fo the few Congresspeople I have come to have more respect for in recent years is Dennis Kucinich. Not because of who he is - I think he's a little off his rocker. But because he's railed, consistently, against these violations of personal freedoms, and he's been more true to his word and his stances than most.

 

[bmags]

The GOP has completely abandoned civil liberties which I find odd because that's a conservative ideology. They mock the liberals for it now.

 

Guiliani's line at the GOP convention was not only hypocritical, but deeply disturbing that people cheered for it.

[lostfan]

Guiliani's line at the GOP convention was not only hypocritical, but deeply disturbing that people cheered for it.

What line? I don't pay any attention whatsoever to Giuliani.

 

Remember though his "freedom is about authority" speech... lol

Edited October 15, 2008 by lostfan

[bmags]

"Obama wants to read terrorists their rights"

[lostfan]

Oh, Palin said that too. Yes, let's mock the document that contains the principles our country was founded on.

[DukeNukeEm]

Remember though his "freedom is about authority" speech... lol

Giuliani is straight out of 1984. Remember, a year ago today he was ahead.

 

[bmags]

Giuliani is straight out of 1984. Remember, a year ago today he was ahead.

 

This is strange though, because after the trials of the original WTC bombing, he silenced critics by saying how this showed that the law will always prevail. It was a way of showing off our superior, civilized society, that no terrorist bombing could change our morals and ethics.