The Democrat Thread

[Cknolls]

Mitt Romney holds a Tampa fundraiser on a Yacht.

 

A Yacht which is apparently chartered in the Caymans.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/romney-party...ed#.UD5L89ZlQ7s

 

Was that woman Teresa Heinz Kerry? Wait she avoids taxes on her yacht too.

[Soxbadger]

Most rich people do what they can to avoid taxes.

 

Which is why its so imperative not to give them further tax breaks.

[StrangeSox]

Hilarious twist on "You didn't build that!"

 

The Atlantic Wire (via @NoBigGovDuh) has a great story on the dishonesty of Mitt Romney's "You didn't build that" ads. It turns out that at the Republican convention on Tuesday night, they plan to ramp it up again with a speech by a small business owner from Delaware, Sher Valenzuela, telling everyone how she did build it, not government.

 

Only one small problem. Actually, two.

 

First, Valenzuela's business, First State Manufacturing, "received more than $2 million in federal loans and more than $15 million in federal contracts over the years," according to the article. This included Small Business Administration money very early on, as well as federal disaster relief loans after 9/11 and loans from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

 

Someone from Reddit bought up http://www.firststatemanufacturing.com/ and made her a nice website!

 

 

And her real website has this nice article about how to get federal dollars for being a minority-owned business!

 

whoops!

Edited August 29, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

She filled out the forms, not Obama you bastard.

[StrangeSox]

I sent a message through their website congratulating them on their successes and noting how crucial programs to give small businesses a helping hand are for our economy and our society.

[Cknolls]

Most rich people do what they can to avoid taxes.

 

Which is why its so imperative not to give them further tax breaks.

 

 

I would say most smart people do what they can to avoid paying more taxes than they must.

[Soxbadger]

I would say most smart people do what they can to avoid paying more taxes than they must.

 

I dont try and avoid paying taxes.

 

Certain things are worth more than money, the United States, in my opinion, is one of them.

 

Regardless, the way the system is currently set up allows those with the most to get the largest advantages.

 

It doesnt make any sense. Those with the least need the most help.

[southsider2k5]

I dont try and avoid paying taxes.

 

Certain things are worth more than money, the United States, in my opinion, is one of them.

 

Regardless, the way the system is currently set up allows those with the most to get the largest advantages.

 

It doesnt make any sense. Those with the least need the most help.

 

You don't take any deductions?

[StrangeSox]

There is a difference between taking deductions and gaming the tax code by stashing undervalued shares into your IRA that will later be worth $100M and moving your money offshore into shell accounts and corporations.

[southsider2k5]

There is a difference between taking deductions and gaming the tax code by stashing undervalued shares into your IRA that will later be worth $100M and moving your money offshore into shell accounts and corporations.

 

It is still avoiding taxes.

[CrimsonWeltall]

It is still avoiding taxes.

 

No, it isn't. It's paying the amount the system intends you to pay because it's set up specifically to give those deductions. No one set up the system with the intention of people hiding money outside the US.

[Balta1701]

No, it isn't. It's paying the amount the system intends you to pay because it's set up specifically to give those deductions. No one set up the system with the intention of people hiding money outside the US.

Are you quite sure about that? Because I'd go so far as to say that's probably...exactly the point. That's why you hire a lobbyist, to make sure that the people writing the tax code leave those loopholes for you to get through, or to make sure that the IRS doesn't have the resources to understand where you're laundering your money. And you have to write the loophole narrow enough/make it difficult enough to cash in, otherwise people will catch on and we proles will take advantage of it.

[Soxbadger]

You don't take any deductions?

 

I take the standard deduction nothing else.

 

But, there is a difference between taking a standard deduction, and setting up fictitious corporations to slush money through as expenses and avoid taxes. There is a huge difference between taking legitimate deductions and working the entire system to reduce your tax rate below what a normal middle class earner makes.

 

 

Are you quite sure about that? Because I'd go so far as to say that's probably...exactly the point. That's why you hire a lobbyist, to make sure that the people writing the tax code leave those loopholes for you to get through, or to make sure that the IRS doesn't have the resources to understand where you're laundering your money. And you have to write the loophole narrow enough/make it difficult enough to cash in, otherwise people will catch on and we proles will take advantage of it.

 

Its actually much simpler than this.

 

Congress is full of rich people. Congress is self serving. Congress passes laws that help themselves.

[southsider2k5]

I take the standard deduction nothing else.

 

But, there is a difference between taking a standard deduction, and setting up fictitious corporations to slush money through as expenses and avoid taxes. There is a huge difference between taking legitimate deductions and working the entire system to reduce your tax rate below what a normal middle class earner makes.

 

 

 

 

Its actually much simpler than this.

 

Congress is full of rich people. Congress is self serving. Congress passes laws that help themselves.

 

So you avoid taxes, just not as well as Warren Buffet does. Too bad, maybe you could get a tax law named after you too.

[Soxbadger]

How do I avoid taxes?

 

The law states I can take a standard deduction.

 

The tax code does not allow someone to set up a fictitious corp to slush money through.

 

One is avoiding taxes, the other is legitimately claiming deductions.

 

If you can not recognize the difference between the 2, there really is no point in discussing.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

There are many legal ways to game the system if you are wealthy. As Balta said, that was set up intentionally.

Edited August 29, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Soxbadger]

There are many legal ways to game the system if you are wealthy. As Balta said, that was set up intentionally.

 

I do this for a living, Im pretty familiar.

 

As I said, its ridiculous when millionaires pay a lower percentage than my support staff.

 

(Edit)

 

And of course its intentional, congress is full of rich people. They want to protect their money.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

I do this for a living, Im pretty familiar.

 

As I said, its ridiculous when millionaires pay a lower percentage than my support staff.

 

(Edit)

 

And of course its intentional, congress is full of rich people. They want to protect their money.

 

You set up tax laws for a living?

[southsider2k5]

How do I avoid taxes?

 

The law states I can take a standard deduction.

 

The tax code does not allow someone to set up a fictitious corp to slush money through.

 

One is avoiding taxes, the other is legitimately claiming deductions.

 

If you can not recognize the difference between the 2, there really is no point in discussing.

 

Of course it is different. It allows you to point fingers.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, it does allow 99% of people to point fingers at the few people who can game the tax code so heavily to keep every last dime of their immense wealth that they can. Solution: fix the tax code so that it can't be gamed, no more finger-pointing.

[Soxbadger]

You set up tax laws for a living?

 

Nope, I get paid to bend laws in the favor of people who can afford my services (ie rich people).

 

Of course it is different. It allows you to point fingers.

 

lol

 

What?

 

That is like comparing someone buying alcohol to crystal meth. Sure they are both drugs, but one can be done legally, one can not. I really dont believe you are trying to take this inane position. Taking a standard deduction is not avoiding taxes, it is legitimately paying taxes pursuant to the tax code. Everyone is entitled to a standard deduction, so it really doesnt matter at all.

 

If it was up to me, there would be 0 deductions. You make money, you pay taxes, simple and efficient.

[Soxbadger]

In fact, what position are you even taking here?

 

That the tax code shouldnt be fixed? That we should continue to allow millionaires to do whatever they want as long as they can pay me?

 

Because I dont think that is a solution.

[southsider2k5]

In fact, what position are you even taking here?

 

That the tax code shouldnt be fixed? That we should continue to allow millionaires to do whatever they want as long as they can pay me?

 

Because I dont think that is a solution.

 

I'm just laughing at the statement about not avoiding taxes being full of it.

[Soxbadger]

I'm just laughing at the statement about not avoiding taxes being full of it.

 

It should be sad laughter because you are showing almost 0 understanding of the problem.

 

Taking legitimate deductions is not avoiding taxes. No CPA, attorney or IRS agent would consider it to be such.

 

Avoiding taxes is when you take steps to lower your tax liability that are technically not allowed under the IRS code.

 

So as I dont do that, Im not avoiding taxes.

 

Ill let you read some IRS stuff, youll notice the word "avoid" isnt used:

 

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc551.html

 

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/index.html

 

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02....blink1000221051

 

The standard deduction is a dollar amount that reduces your taxable income.

 

Im just not sure you have a basic understanding of the difference between legitimate deductions which are not avoiding taxes and illegitimate ways, that are avoiding taxes.

 

(edit)

 

And to be honest, I just am not sure what you are trying to get at other than a stupid semantic argument about the use of the word "avoid".

 

If you dont feel that the system is broke, great, argue why it isnt broke. But no one I have ever met is arguing or caring about people taking the standard deduction.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

It should be sad laughter because you are showing almost 0 understanding of the problem.

 

Taking legitimate deductions is not avoiding taxes. No CPA, attorney or IRS agent would consider it to be such.

 

Avoiding taxes is when you take steps to lower your tax liability that are technically not allowed under the IRS code.

 

So as I dont do that, Im not avoiding taxes.

 

Ill let you read some IRS stuff, youll notice the word "avoid" isnt used:

 

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc551.html

 

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/index.html

 

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02....blink1000221051

 

 

 

Im just not sure you have a basic understanding of the difference between legitimate deductions which are not avoiding taxes and illegitimate ways, that are avoiding taxes.

 

(edit)

 

And to be honest, I just am not sure what you are trying to get at other than a stupid semantic argument about the use of the word "avoid".

 

If you dont feel that the system is broke, great, argue why it isnt broke. But no one I have ever met is arguing or caring about people taking the standard deduction.

 

You're the one who lied about avoiding taxes, not me.