The Democrat Thread

[StrangeSox]

Yeah the "both sides!" nonsense is pretty annoying.

[lostfan]

I actually had to argue this on Facebook with a dude on someone's status about it. He said "the Dems control Congress" and I went into how the Republicans wrote it and all 53 Dems voted for it. Then someone else followed up backing up what I said and dude responded again saying "both sides are to blame." Dude. How?

[StrangeSox]

The DoJ Inspector General released his report on the Fast and Furious scandal this week.

 

Fast And Furious Report Destroys Right Wing Conspiracy Theories

 

What none on the right are admitting is that Horowitz’s report systematically reveals how irresponsible and speculative the accusations from their side have been. The report criticizes Holder’s Criminal Division chief Lanny Breuer for failing to inform Holder or his deputy that “gun walking” had taken place in the Bush administration in another case in Arizona called “Wide Receiver”. But the report shows that Breuer knew nothing about gun walking in Fast and Furious, and that therefore the scandal existed three levels below Holder (let alone the White House)....As for the source of the false statements to Congress, Horowitz finds they were the result of inaccurate reassurances given to Breuer’s deputy Jason Weinstein, by the U.S. attorney in Arizona, Dennis Burke.

 

....Horowitz destroys the conspiracy theories on both sides of the aisle over 471-pages, but it’s the right wing screamers who come out looking worst. Horowitz shows definitively that the Arizona ATF agents and prosecutors in the U.S. Attorney’s office there were responsible for the operation, not the White House or the Justice Department in Washington and that the primary source of the inaccurate testimony given to Congress was the U.S. Attorney for Arizona, Dennis Burke.

[Y2HH]

I actually had to argue this on Facebook with a dude on someone's status about it. He said "the Dems control Congress" and I went into how the Republicans wrote it and all 53 Dems voted for it. Then someone else followed up backing up what I said and dude responded again saying "both sides are to blame." Dude. How?

 

To be clear, in THIS INSTANCE, both sides are NOT to blame...the Republicans are. But that's one of many instances. While SS may be annoyed with the "but both sides..." counter arguments, they are, by and large, valid arguments.

 

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending Democrats never filibuster is not only ignorant, but downright false.

 

While Republicans have taken the filibuster bulls*** to the next level, Democrats tend to forget their "filibuster days" quite conveniently, as they practically invented the practice. In either case, it's divided the country in a way we've never seen before...and it's only getting worse.

[StrangeSox]

The "both sides" argument really isn't historically valid, not with this current iteration of Congress. Like lostfan said, the use of the filibuster is unprecedented and we routinely see bills fail with 50+ votes in favor.

[Y2HH]

The "both sides" argument really isn't historically valid, not with this current iteration of Congress. Like lostfan said, the use of the filibuster is unprecedented and we routinely see bills fail with 50+ votes in favor.

 

In that frame, of course its not "both sides", since you've limited the "historical data" to one iteration of congress. As I stated, factually, Democrats also used to filibuster...just not to this insane extent, but the writing was on the wall when they started doing it years ago...the republican congress simply took it to the next level.

[Balta1701]

In that frame, of course its not "both sides", since you've limited the "historical data" to one iteration of congress. As I stated, factually, Democrats also used to filibuster...just not to this insane extent, but the writing was on the wall when they started doing it years ago...the republican congress simply took it to the next level.

The only problem I'm goign to have with this statement is the term "Started"...because going all the way back to the 1960's, every time there's been a major jump in the incidence of cloture votes compared to the previous congress, it's been the Republicans in the minority. Yes, the Democrats use it too...but "started" really isnt' the accurate term.

[StrangeSox]

In that frame, of course its not "both sides", since you've limited the "historical data" to one iteration of congress.

 

Well that's what we're talking about, unprecedented use to obstruct anything and everything to achieve their stated #1 goal: make Obama a 1-term President.

 

As I stated, factually, Democrats also used to filibuster...just not to this insane extent, but the writing was on the wall when they started doing it years ago...the republican congress simply took it to the next level.

 

Yes, Democrats and Republicans have both used the filibuster in the past. The "not to this insane extent" is exactly the point, though, and what sinks the "both sides!" argument. Because "both sides!" haven't done it to this insane extent.

 

 

[Y2HH]

The only problem I'm goign to have with this statement is the term "Started"...because going all the way back to the 1960's, every time there's been a major jump in the incidence of cloture votes compared to the previous congress, it's been the Republicans in the minority. Yes, the Democrats use it too...but "started" really isnt' the accurate term.

 

I'd hate you, but ignoring facts is a pet peeve of mine.

 

Thanks for the correction.

[StrangeSox]

Ezra Klein has an article about the use of cloture votes back in May:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-k...Hf0RU_blog.html

 

An interesting implication of this graph: The filibuster has become more common even as it’s become easier to break. Until 1917, the filibuster couldn’t be stopped. And until 1975, you needed two-thirds of the Senate, rather than three-fifths. So as it’s become less powerful, it’s become more common. What that means is that the rise of the filibuster is largely about “norms” in the Senate. It didn’t become more effective and thus more popular. It actually became less effective, but parties chose to use it more.

 

There’s an interesting question around exactly when this change in norms happened. If you look at the graph, you have three major moments of discontinuity. One, around 1972, that appears to provoke reform of the filibuster rules so cloture is easier to achieve. Another, in the early 1990s, that seems covers the latter half of George H.W. Bush’s administration and the beginning of Bill Clinton’s presidency. And then the practice absolutely skyrockets when Barack Obama takes office.

 

We can argue about why there were these jumps. But their long-term effect seems to be to raise the bar permanently. Every time filibustering becomes much more common, it pretty much remains at that level, even as Congress and the White House changes hands. So the filibuster becomes more common under Bill Clinton, but remains almost that common under George W. Bush.

[Y2HH]

Well that's what we're talking about, unprecedented use to obstruct anything and everything to achieve their stated #1 goal: make Obama a 1-term President.

 

 

 

Yes, Democrats and Republicans have both used the filibuster in the past. The "not to this insane extent" is exactly the point, though, and what sinks the "both sides!" argument. Because "both sides!" haven't done it to this insane extent.

 

1) Too bad it's looking like that 'strategery' won't work.

2) I don't excuse the republicans for doing what they're doing right now. However, I'm not pretending the Democrats didn't, up until the point the republicans went filibuster insane, didn't push it to it's highest level of all time...

[StrangeSox]

They didn't push it to their highest levels. They matched the 93-94 Republican minority and then steadily declined.

[Y2HH]

They didn't push it to their highest levels. They matched the 93-94 Republican minority and then steadily declined.

 

The graph shows they pushed it to it's highest levels to that point.

 

When you do things like this it shows you are not objectionable.

 

You are comparing their high point to the republicans highest point to that time -- and theirs was higher -- and then claiming it declined steadily...when it declined and then steadily went back up...again, to a higher point than the republicans aside from 1 time, which they had already exceeded once.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

[StrangeSox]

Texas Patriot Lynches Chair!

 

[Balta1701]

Texas Patriot Lynches Chair!

 

I just always thought Kap lived closer to Dallas, not Austin.

[StrangeSox]

New York State Senate race now featuring anti-gay attack ads! May be NSFW.

 

 

[bmags]

Just a reminder: Ted Kennedy reached across the aisle for Bush's signature education proposal, and democrats voted for cloture on medicare part D even if they didn't vote for the bill. And there's also Iraq.

 

You can't really point to any such cooperation on the Republican side for Obama, who entered with much more popularity than Bush. They received a single republican vote for health care, in the house. And received no such cloture votes from them.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'm sorry but the people who are a drag and are holding back this country are the backward hillbilly racist homophobic inbred white trash piece of sh*t like that guy who hung that chair. Shame on the GOP for pandering to those idiots instead of ignoring them. No wonder blacks, latinos, women, gays and young people vote Democratic, there's no room for us in the party that caters to those kinds of people.

 

If the GOP doesn't shift to the center and becomes more inclusive, they'll be the decided minority party, America is changing, deal with it.

[Y2HH]

I'm sorry but the people who are a drag and are holding back this country are the backward hillbilly racist homophobic inbred white trash piece of sh*t like that guy who hung that chair. Shame on the GOP for pandering to those idiots instead of ignoring them. No wonder blacks, latinos, women, gays and young people vote Democratic, there's no room for us in the party that caters to those kinds of people.

 

If the GOP doesn't shift to the center and becomes more inclusive, they'll be the decided minority party, America is changing, deal with it.

 

Wrong.

 

You vote democratic because you like free s***...because you are poor an lazy.

 

Please know that I'm kidding before you get mad at me.

[StrangeSox]

Chaos on Bulls*** Mountain

 

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
Chaos on Bulls**t Mountain
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog The Daily Show on Facebook

 

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2012/09/bulls***-mountain.html

Bulls*** Mountain

Good Daily Show segment. I like the inclusion of Craig T. Nelson saying, "I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No." Because I think that quote really gets to the true core of bulls*** mountain. One can never be quite sure how much conservatives believe their own bulls***, but my longstanding theory is that they believe there's some secret super generous welfare system that only black people have access to. When they had hard times, got their government handouts, their government handouts sucked. But the blahs are out there buying their t-bones and driving their cadillacs, so they must be getting the really good welfare. Nobody helped poor Craig out, because the food stamps and and welfare sucked. They don't understand that this is because food stamps and welfare do suck.

Edited September 21, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

I never understood why liberals think that when conservatives b**** about this it's only black people we're considered about. More white people receive food stamps and welfare. I get more angry at the white parents with the 2-3 kids at Sams Clubs using Link and Wic for essentials and then spending 300 bucks on garbage more than someone living in a public housing development (anger is equal if it were black parents, but I don't see any at my local Sams Club)

[bmags]

I never understood why liberals think that when conservatives b**** about this it's only black people we're considered about. More white people receive food stamps and welfare. I get more angry at the white parents with the 2-3 kids at Sams Clubs using Link and Wic for essentials and then spending 300 bucks on garbage more than someone living in a public housing development (anger is equal if it were black parents, but I don't see any at my local Sams Club)

 

Because of history.

[StrangeSox]

Probably because of the history of things like the "welfare queen" mythos and most white working-class people failing to identify themselves in the 47% while vehemently decrying government handouts. Craig T. Nelson's statement really highlights it.

[mr_genius]

welfare queen"

 

one of the best political strategies ever. too bad clueless Romney can't pull it off.