Jenksismyhero Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:20 PM) lol thus why i said investment in schools would help. good teachers can make kids want to go to school. yeah, it won't fix all the problems, but it won't HURT taking a bunch of small steps is a lot better than doing nothing, like you're suggesting You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Having a cool teacher means jacks*** when you go home and have to dodge bullets or your older brother/father/uncle is dealing drugs and thieving and whatever else. You act as if a new teacher will suddenly change all of the roadblocks in these kids' lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:23 PM) This is why this is cyclical and self-reinforcing and why you need to look at and address what led that previous generation "to the streets" in the first place. Which is why even if legal racism was outlawed a few decades ago, there are still enormous lingering effects. Which is fine, do that, but also realize that simply throwing money at the problem isn't going to fix the problem. How's that public housing thing working out? Or food stamps? Those programs have declined over time right? Because giving people things causes a change in mentality/ways of life? Oh no wait, it doesn't. And it never has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:34 PM) "need"? Like we are absolutely compelled to to meet the basic requirements for survival? Nah ha ha ha, no we dont "need" to do anything. We could just sit back and not care. I mean we've amended, changed, trashed and created all the legislation necessary to remove segregation and bigotry from the state. That's been done, that was this countries' cross to bear for all the bad s*** it got itself caught up in with the past. you don't care, which makes you awful. some of us do, which makes us better people. i can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:40 PM) You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Having a cool teacher means jacks*** when you go home and have to dodge bullets or your older brother/father/uncle is dealing drugs and thieving and whatever else. You act as if a new teacher will suddenly change all of the roadblocks in these kids' lives. it can have an impact. it's worth trying. what's your suggestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 This country's "cross to bear" for generations of slavery and legal racism was to...stop slavery and legal racism? Doesn't seem like much of a cross, unless your phrasing is unintentionally revealing your views of civil rights legislation Yup. Thats about it. Some bad laws and we had to go through the divisive and arduous process of removing those laws. 500,000 Americans died to get rid of slavery, and ending state segregation was not a bloodless endeavor either. It wasn't as simple as just changing the law undoing that s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) Which is fine, do that, but also realize that simply throwing money at the problem isn't going to fix the problem. How's that public housing thing working out? Or food stamps? Those programs have declined over time right? Because giving people things causes a change in mentality/ways of life? Oh no wait, it doesn't. And it never has. Public housing and food stamps are not sufficient to remove structural racism and the legacy of generations of oppression and forced poverty or the broader structures in our society that lead to so much poverty and wealth disparity across race, you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) you don't care, which makes you awful. some of us do, which makes us better people. i can live with that. The Great Liberal Myth: I'm better than you because I steal money from some people to waste on others. Edited January 24, 2013 by DukeNukeEm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:42 PM) you don't care, which makes you awful. some of us do, which makes us better people. i can live with that. duke intentionally misread what I said there to make a dumb, bad-faith argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 duke intentionally misread what I said there to make a dumb, bad-faith argument No, you just try and frame the argument to "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE, WHAT SHALL WE DO" and get a little hissy when someone brings up the idea of just doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) The Great Liberal Myth: I'm better than you because I steal money from some people to waste on others. i'd rather be on that side of the coin than the side that f***s people over who can't do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Nah, that is a dumb, bad-faith interpretation of what I said given the context of the discussion. but if you're suggesting that you're cool with structural racism and generational poverty that's good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) No, you just try and frame the argument to "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE, WHAT SHALL WE DO" and get a little hissy when someone brings up the idea of just doing nothing. RIGHT! YOU DON'T CARE! as I said. so... not.. a myth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Nah, that is a dumb, bad-faith interpretation of what I said given the context of the discussion. but if you're suggesting that you're cool with structural racism and generational poverty that's good to know are you surprised? it's about par for the course for this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 i'd rather be on that side of the coin than the side that f***s people over who can't do anything about it. They can do something about it they just chose not to. In spite of all the damage your ideology has done to class mobility in this country its still America and if you work hard enough you can enjoy a middle class livelihood. Unfortunately the recklessness with which we've treated our currency and the addiction to saddling the middle class with obscene taxes has made the amount of work required to enjoy that livelihood much greater, but you just got to suck it up. Welcome to the world, s*** isn't fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 02:01 PM) They can do something about it they just chose not to. In spite of all the damage your ideology has done to class mobility in this country its still America and if you work hard enough you can enjoy a middle class livelihood. Unfortunately the recklessness with which we've treated our currency and the addiction to saddling the middle class with obscene taxes has made the amount of work required to enjoy that livelihood much greater, but you just got to suck it up. Welcome to the world, s*** isn't fair. yep. by suggesting investing in schools ive ruined their ability for upper mobility. makes sense. no child left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 yep. by suggesting investing in schools ive ruined their ability for upper mobility. makes sense. no child left behind. By borrowing all the money for your social welfare programs to make yourself feel good you've crushed the value of the dollar which has stagnated wages. Cost of everything goes up, our pay stays the same and Papa Government no matter what still needs his slice to just pay the interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:02 PM) yep. by suggesting investing in schools ive ruined their ability for upper mobility. makes sense. no child left behind. No, you've just wasted more money. What's your age/occupation btw Reddy? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) By borrowing all the money for your social welfare programs to make yourself feel good you've crushed the value of the dollar which has stagnated wages. Cost of everything goes up, our pay stays the same and Papa Government no matter what still needs his slice to just pay the interest. The value of the dollar is crushed? And that's what has stagnated wages? Wouldn't a weak currency be better for domestic manufacturing jobs that were often a way to a middle-class life in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeNukeEm Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The value of the dollar is crushed? And that's what has stagnated wages? If your pay goes up (just throwing this number out there) 5% in one year, and inflation claims 5% of the dollars value in that same year.... your wage is stagnant. Wouldn't a weak currency be better for domestic manufacturing jobs that were often a way to a middle-class life in the past? Manufacturing is actually coming back to the US, so your symptom actually matches my diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) Manufacturing is actually coming back to the US, so your symptom actually matches my diagnosis. If that blip at the bottom is "Coming back"...then color me unimpressed. We've successfully gotten back to the # of manufacturing jobs we had in 1946. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 please tell me you're a goldbug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:30 PM) If your pay goes up (just throwing this number out there) 5% in one year, and inflation claims 5% of the dollars value in that same year.... your wage is stagnant. Yep. Real wages for most people have been stagnant for decades. But GDP-per-capita hasn't, so there's something else going on there. Inflation hasn't been much of a threat for a while now, and the strength of a currency is usually discussed in reference to other currencies via exchange rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:45 PM) Yup. Thats about it. Some bad laws and we had to go through the divisive and arduous process of removing those laws. 500,000 Americans died to get rid of slavery, and ending state segregation was not a bloodless endeavor either. It wasn't as simple as just changing the law undoing that s***. Say you have Stage IV cancer. You fight it until you're almost rid of it, and it's isolated to your liver. Are you going to celebrate and call it a success, or should you fight a little bit more just so you can be rid of the thing? This is different than frivolous and pointless spending. There is the possibility for legitimate economic benefit and growth from helping these people, while also keeping the streets safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) No, you've just wasted more money. What's your age/occupation btw Reddy? Just curious. you're not gonna like this. 26, actor. EDIT: or you're gonna really love it. haha Edited January 24, 2013 by Reddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) The Great Liberal Myth: I'm better than you because I steal money from some people to waste on others. Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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