The Democrat Thread

[Soxbadger]

Interesting strategy here for the Dems. Despite Rush telling his listeners that they are close to victory and giving in would be "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory", it seems that the shut down is hurting the GOP more than it is hurting the Dems. Although it is hurting everyone. Should Dems hold out for total victory, or try to give up the least while trying to be the party that compromised and re-opened the government? What's the end game here?

 

There is no end game here for the Democrats. They are literally watching the Republicans decimate their own party. Gave them enough rope and they finally hung themselves.

 

My personal opinion varies. I almost always prefer settlement even if I have to look weak, because what do I really care if its in my best interest. But every once in a while Ill run into a jackass that just pisses me off and then I wont negotiate. So some days I think that Obama should throw them a little bone so that they can walk away with a little dignity. The other part of me thinks that he should sit down with the Republicans, look them in the eye and tell them that this is going to be there Thermopylae.

 

[bmags]

I continue to think that if we throw them a bone, we will see same scenario six months from now. Crisis governing.

[StrangeSox]

I continue to think that if we throw them a bone, we will see same scenario six months from now. Crisis governing.

I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

[Balta1701]

Scalia: "The 14th Amendment protects all races" -- not "only the blacks."

— @DLeonhardt

Great sounding quote there. Real dignified.

[StrangeSox]

but it doesn't protect women and the homosexuals.

[Jenksismyhero]

Great sounding quote there. Real dignified.

 

To be fair, the attorney arguing was completely ignorant, starting off her argument by stating that the purpose behind the 14th amendment was to protect minorities from the majority:

 

MS. DRIVER: Mr. Chief Justice, and may it

please the Court:

 

We ask this Court to uphold the Sixth

Circuit decision to reaffirm the doctrine that's

expressed in Hunter-Seattle, and to bring the 14th

Amendment back to its original purpose and meaning,

which is to protect minority rights against a white

majority, which did not occur in this case.

 

JUSTICE SCALIA: My goodness, I thought

we've -- we've held that the 14th Amendment protects all

races. I mean, that was the argument in the early

years, that it protected only -- only the blacks. But I

thought we rejected that. You -- you say now that we

have to proceed as though its purpose is not to protect

whites, only to protect minorities?

 

That was a good read, btw, if anyone has time. It's an interesting case. Is it constitutional to pass a constitutional amendment that takes race completely out of the equation when the state decides certain matters (including university enrollment, contracts, etc.).

[StrangeSox]

Seems like she was trying to make an originalist plea to Scalia?

[Jenksismyhero]

Seems like she was trying to make an originalist plea to Scalia?

 

Originalism doesn't mean you ignore the language of an amendment. His arguments re: originalism derive from modern courts trying to spin the language into something the original drafters never intended. The legislative process should be used for that.

[StrangeSox]

Well, I think the original drafters were smart enough to understand that there would be debates over the language of a particular law or amendment (as they themselves had these arguments) and that they knew the language of the 14th amendment was broad and would likely be understood to protect different things in the future.

 

But based on past statements, Scalia doesn't believe that. He believes that the 14th was specifically about the racial oppression faced by black people from white people.

 

edit: I guess it's important to read that Scalia is saying "we," meaning the SC both past and present, have held that it says one thing, not that he necessarily agrees or accepts with all past decisions on the EPC.

Edited October 16, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, I think the original drafters were smart enough to understand that there would be debates over the language of a particular law or amendment (as they themselves had these arguments) and that they knew the language of the 14th amendment was broad and would likely be understood to protect different things in the future.

 

But based on past statements, Scalia doesn't believe that. He believes that the 14th was specifically about the racial oppression faced by black people from white people.

 

edit: I guess it's important to read that Scalia is saying "we," meaning the SC both past and present, have held that it says one thing, not that he necessarily agrees or accepts with all past decisions on the EPC.

 

What it's "about" and what the ultimate effect is are two different things though.

[StrangeSox]

This is what it's like to be in a Stop And Frisk

 

http://gawker.com/this-is-what-its-like-to...dium=socialflow

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Charles C. Pierce: I HATE CENTRISM

 

I hate goddamn centrists.

 

There are three kinds of people who claim to be centrists in this country today. There are embarrassed Republicans. There are lazy people. And there are liars. There is no fourth alternative. We have seen vividly the intellectual exhaustion of self-proclaimed centrists in the laughable attempts to blame both sides for the reign of the morons. We have seen vividly the intellectual dishonesty of self-proclaimed centrists demonstrated by the No Labels and Fix The Debt scams, both of which involve little more than selling out the social safety-net. We even seen the intellectual vacuity of self-proclaimed centrists in the results of this poll, in which we see some vague mumbling about the deficit that will eat us in our beds, but a strong desire to raise taxes on the very wealthiest among us, which I guarantee you none of the people who proclaim their centrism the loudest believes is a centrist position.

[Jenksismyhero]

This is what it's like to be in a Stop And Frisk

 

http://gawker.com/this-is-what-its-like-to...dium=socialflow

 

On a somewhat related note, did you check out the This American Life from a week or two ago about people that can't keep their mouths shut and get in trouble? They had a great piece on a NY cop who started recording conversations with his superiors over his lack of "work" (illegal citations). His bosses were telling the cops to basically make up crimes and arrest people. People would be arrested for open alcohol containers even though they would be drinking juice. It got to a point where he couldn't stand the pressure anymore and took a day off. In the middle of the night a bunch of higher ups in the NYPD showed up at his apartment, arrested him, and forced him into a pysch ward where he was "missing" from his family for multiple days. Luckily, he was smart enough to record the whole thing. It was all a big cover-up though having to do with this particular precinct (and probably many others) under reporting crimes (rapes were just assaults), not reporting crimes (rapes simply didn't get put on the books as happening) and/or making up crimes (picking up random people for whatever offense you could think of in that moment). The crazy part is that he left the department, sued the city for millions and then moved an hour or two away from the city. To this day he still gets random visits from NYPD officers just wanting to talk. And he still records them.

 

edit: here's the link if anyone is interested. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-arch...o-remain-silent

 

second edit: hmm it's actually an old podcast from September 2010 but they just recently replayed it. Anyway, still good stuff.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

I only caught the beginning of that story and meant to go back and listen to it, thanks for the reminder.

[Jenksismyhero]

I only caught the beginning of that story and meant to go back and listen to it, thanks for the reminder.

 

Prepare to be enraged. My wife and I were listening to it on a road trip and kept saying "WHAT? Are you serious?"

 

I also now question every statistic that the CPD puts out (I mean I did after watching The Wire too, but still), including the lower murder rates. No doubt some murders are just not reported and/or classified as suicides or something.

[bmags]

Yeah that was a classic TAL episode based off amazing work by the village voice.

[lostfan]

I think that remark is one of his more out of touch remarks that we've heard in recent days. No. What emboldened our enemies and what empowered our competitors was his promise to fundamentally transform America from being a solvent, free, exceptional country into something we're not gonna recognize. Also, what has emboldened enemies is that he with doubling of our debt since he's been elected, putting us on a path towards bankruptcy, and then locking up pipelines and resources that will result in us being more reliant on foreign imports for energy, and then of course he, having left behind, his administration having left behind our brave men in Benghazi to be murdered, and then of course there's Syria, where he promised to bombSyria because in that civil war, Syria was going to bomb Syria, and then we never heard another word again about his threat to bomb in a foreign civil war, and then of course, most recently, Megyn, he, uh, using our military, those who would fight against our enemies. Our military. Our vets. Shutting down their memorials. And holding them hostage in terms of budget deals. Uh, threatening to withhold paychecks for our brave men and women. AS FOR ECONOMIC COMPETITORS! Corporate tax rate, the second highest in the industrialized world. Now that empowers our competitors.

[Balta1701]

Um, where did that come from?

[lostfan]

Um, where did that come from?

I put that quote without a name to see if anyone would be able to tell who said it.

[Balta1701]

I'm guessing that's a Palin quote from Megyn Kelly's show.

[lostfan]

She is the only one capable of that kind of incoherence.

 

Oh, I thought it would be funny to point out that so far Ted Cruz has raised more money for the Democrats than he has himself. The person who single-handedly boosted the Democrats this much was Obama back in '07. Really starting to think Cruz is an undercover Democratic operative.

[Balta1701]

She is the only one capable of that kind of incoherence.

Hence why its random appearance looking like a rant of yours in this thread seemed...confusing.

[lostfan]

I suddenly have co-opted ALL of the right-wing talking points and verbal memes and tried to fit all of them in the same paragraph and started running out of steam towards the end.

[StrangeSox]

welp

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/p..._n_4152147.html

[Balta1701]

US Congresswoman from North Carolina has AR-15 rifle stolen from her garage. It was leaning against a gun locker.

 

I mean, I guess that's kind of responsible gun ownership. At least she owned a gun locker.