The Democrat Thread

[StrangeSox]

Newspaper editorials =! reports

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure but I've read reports we are in deep trouble financailly and I've seen the social unrest.

This is a well cited and convincing case. You have supported this with a huge amount of detail, enough to convince anyone who is skeptical of what you say.

[greg775]

This is a well cited and convincing case. You have supported this with a huge amount of detail, enough to convince anyone who is skeptical of what you say.

No offense to you at all, but whenever I post something mean about Hilly and ask questions of people, I get nothing in return. I'm a little concerned that voters indeed are tossing her the Oval Office as some sort of appreciation gift for her merely being 68-69 years old. A lifetime achievement award. Nobody will take me up on my questions about a.) why she should be president and b.) how happy you will be (and why you will be elated) on Election Day when the Republican candidate gives his/her concession speech.

[Balta1701]

No offense to you at all, but whenever I post something mean about Hilly and ask questions of people, I get nothing in return. I'm a little concerned that voters indeed are tossing her the Oval Office as some sort of appreciation gift for her merely being 68-69 years old. A lifetime achievement award. Nobody will take me up on my questions about a.) why she should be president and b.) how happy you will be (and why you will be elated) on Election Day when the Republican candidate gives his/her concession speech.

#1 by far: Assuming it isn't destroyed by the Supreme Court next month, I will keep the ability to buy health care if I continue having to take these temporary teaching jobs. You can't believe how important that is to me and that would not be the case if any of the "repeal" folks win.

 

Other policy details we've gotten already: calling for full path to citizenship as part of comprehensive immigration bill (notably, a similar one passed the senate and the House Speaker refused to bring it up for a vote as it would have likely passed there as well) and a set of general topics that could turn into a law enforcement and prison reform bill (a speech notably scheduled before Baltimore).

 

I'll be happy to continue adding policy proposals as we get them.

[caulfield12]

In all fairness, some of our greatest leaders have been older. Truman. Eisenhower (well, that was a pretty pedestrian presidency after the Korean War round down).

 

Reagan, love him or hate him...Thatcher, on the side of the pond, was no spring chicken.

 

The irony is that the Clintons/Gores and Blairs represented a "youth movement" and new generation of leadership when they defeated the older Bush back in 1992.

 

As a Democrat, I see a lot of Obama in the Rubio ascendancy. Really, we need someone with leadership ABILITY and decisiveness, not someone who is inspirational/aspirational. Of course, ideally, someone would possess all the characteristics, but that seems to be asking too much these days out of politicians.

 

If you go back to the Kennedy ascendancy in the 60's, the model of "youth/brightest of their generation"...or even Teddy Roosevelt back in his day, they were HATED by much of the country. Jefferson would be another one.

 

More experienced leaders like Lincoln, Washington, Franklin Roosevelt, Adams, Reagan, Truman...have been among the best presidents because of all that they learned from previous life failures.

 

And the GOP hasn't done a great job of turning the reigns over to the youngsters....guys like Bush, Romney, Dole and McCain came across as terribly out of touch, just plain old, they're the very symbols of everything that is turning against the GOP demographically....too white, too old, MALE, WASPy, outdated or outmoded in their thinking on immigration when the Hispanic voting block is the one growing at the fastest rate in the US at present.

 

For example, is there any way Scott Walker's going to last for very long as frontrunner before he destroys himself or is destroyed? I would rather have a Clinton than someone whose main claim to fame is tearing down public unions...without having any solutions for all of the problems other than further privatization (which works out ALL so well with prisons, health care, investing advice, road systems, bridges, tunnels, etc.)

 

[greg775]

Thanks Balta and Caulfield for finally putting some specifics. I am all for continued health care. I find it hard to believe all Republican candidates are against that but after seeing Brownback in action I can believe anything.

Thing is, we don't need Hillary for that. Other Demo candidates if they chose to run would also be in favor of Obama's plan continuing.

[Balta1701]

Thanks Balta and Caulfield for finally putting some specifics. I am all for continued health care. I find it hard to believe all Republican candidates are against that but after seeing Brownback in action I can believe anything.

Thing is, we don't need Hillary for that. Other Demo candidates if they chose to run would also be in favor of Obama's plan continuing.

Yes, however I'm probably going to vote for Sanders in the primary due to him being much more willing to treat wall street as an enemy. But when we get to the general election, "ability to afford health care for family or not" is a pretty major issue for me.

[StrangeSox]

I am all for continued health care. I find it hard to believe all Republican candidates are against that

 

have you not paid attention to American politics for the last six years?

[bmags]

John Adams one of the best presidents?

[bmags]

Also what Greg keeps deriding as a "lifetime achievement award" is what others would call "resume of an experienced candidate"

[Balta1701]

Also what Greg keeps deriding as a "lifetime achievement award" is what others would call "resume of an experienced candidate"

I've become convinced that "experience" is commonly overestimated in these races compared to things like "judgement". John McCain was by far more "experienced" and he's spent the last 6 years making me so happy he wasn't elected every time he wants to invade someone new. Plus he was so experienced that he thought an inexperienced alaskan governor would make a great Vice President, an obviously great "judgement".

[greg775]

have you not paid attention to American politics for the last six years?

By "hard to believe" I meant I find it amazing or impossible to believe Republicans are against affordable health care for people. I mean it's not their fricking money. Do something for people, Mr. Brownback.

[Balta1701]

By "hard to believe" I meant I find it amazing or impossible to believe Republicans are against affordable health care for people. I mean it's not their fricking money. Do something for people, Mr. Brownback.

They're convinced they are. If people get sick they'll be motivated to work harder. Cancer is a great motivation to get a better job.

[caulfield12]

By "hard to believe" I meant I find it amazing or impossible to believe Republicans are against affordable health care for people. I mean it's not their fricking money. Do something for people, Mr. Brownback.

 

 

It's easier for them to scare everyone that there will be government "death panels" deciding whether you live to die...whether to approve or deny some type of service...than to actually come up with a better solution.

 

The irony, of course, is that Romney's Massachusetts plan (which he tried to disavow later) was even more liberal than the one that we eventually ended up with.

 

All alone, the basic premise was to make people believe that millions of poor and homeless people would be descending on their local doctor's office or clinic, making it nearly impossible for them to get an appointment...that medical insurance would double or triple in price, etc.

 

 

 

I'll give Ryan some credit there, at least he presented some ideas....albeit bad ones. For most Republicans, their only tome is lower taxes, free markets, supply-side economics, just oppose Obama/Clinton etc. on every single issue. That's an electoral strategy, but it's far from a successful governing one.

 

 

[bmags]

I've become convinced that "experience" is commonly overestimated in these races compared to things like "judgement". John McCain was by far more "experienced" and he's spent the last 6 years making me so happy he wasn't elected every time he wants to invade someone new. Plus he was so experienced that he thought an inexperienced alaskan governor would make a great Vice President, an obviously great "judgement".

 

Yes, but "lifetime achievement award" is ridiculous. "It's like they are really popular just because they've held multiple high-level positions that people have enjoyed their work!"

 

I don't prefer clinton for the same reason as 08 - she's a hawk. She will absolutely bring us military conflict. I also can't stand how gossipy and hacky all of the individuals around them are.

 

But obviously I'm not ever risking Supreme Court justices being appointed by a republican on my watch.

[farmteam]

But obviously I'm not ever risking Supreme Court justices being appointed by a republican on my watch.

It can be understated how critical this is. It might be the area a president has the most influence in.

[StrangeSox]

Not just SC but the whole federal judiciary.

[Jerksticks]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but are all these Hillary quotes true I just read somewhere? I think they came from people that worked on Clinton's staff etc. They make her sound like a horrible human being. Just looking for the real scoop on all that. Thanks, D.

[caulfield12]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but are all these Hillary quotes true I just read somewhere? I think they came from people that worked on Clinton's staff etc. They make her sound like a horrible human being. Just looking for the real scoop on all that. Thanks, D.

 

Source? Quotes in question??

[Jerksticks]

Source? Quotes in question??

Not sure. Just saw them a few weeks ago. I think a large portion come from some ex-staffer of some capacity. Maybe they wrote a book?

[cabiness42]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but are all these Hillary quotes true I just read somewhere? I think they came from people that worked on Clinton's staff etc. They make her sound like a horrible human being. Just looking for the real scoop on all that. Thanks, D.

 

I'm not sure you can be a successful politician without being a horrible human being.

[Balta1701]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but are all these Hillary quotes true I just read somewhere? I think they came from people that worked on Clinton's staff etc. They make her sound like a horrible human being. Just looking for the real scoop on all that. Thanks, D.

There are a huge number of "quotes" from the Clintons that have appeared in books about them over the years. I'm sure some are accurate, some are fabricated, some are deliberate misquotes, some are accidental misquotes. If you took every bad thing I've said or typed over the past 20 years you could make me sound like a terrible human being too, and then if you made up another 50% well then I'm a mass murderer.

[StrangeSox]

I'm a mass murderer.

 

[southsider2k5]

That's what I heard.

[greg775]

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but are all these Hillary quotes true I just read somewhere? I think they came from people that worked on Clinton's staff etc. They make her sound like a horrible human being. Just looking for the real scoop on all that. Thanks, D.

Put it this way. Nobody's going out of their way to say she's a peach of a human being. Where there's smoke, there's fire. We went through this discussion before and somebody on here was kind enough to post all the negative quotes and debate the accuracy of them. I mean if Hillary Clinton had a great personality, we'd know about it. I'm not going to call her a b****, but I'd like to watch a debate on this issue between people who know her.

 

I'm not sure you can be a successful politician without being a horrible human being.

Obama seems like a nice guy.