The Democrat Thread

[Y2HH]

I'm fine with calling anyone who openly espouses fascism and racism, whether or not they "actually mean any of it," a dumb ass, especially if they're doing it as the front-runner for nomination for President of a major political party.

 

He's also an old white dude saying ridiculous s*** that at least some small but significant percentage of his supporters fully embrace. I see no reason to assume that Trump doesn't genuinely believe the s***ty things he's saying.

 

So, like I said, he's played you.

[StrangeSox]

In what sense has he "played" me?

 

What reason do you have to think he doesn't genuinely hold these views?

 

edit: and even if he doesn't "genuinely believe" what he's saying, it's still dangerous to have someone with the media platform he has and the support he has saying what he is saying.

Edited December 9, 2015 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

He's a life long reality tv media whore, so much so he was doing it before reality tv even existed.

 

Throughout the 80's, Trump and his crazy marriage in the media was basically the entire Kanye/Kim storyline BEFORE Kanye/Kim.

 

He says outlandish things because it makes people notice him, not because he actually means any of it...and people keep falling for it over and over. This presidential race is nothing but more reality tv to him, and unlike his opponents, he doesn't have to spend a dime. Nearly all of the things Trump is saying CANNOT EVEN BE DONE, and he KNOWS THAT. He's NOT the dumbass people try to make him out to be.

lol, OK. Yes clearly none of us know he's doing it to get attention. And by none of us you mean almost all of us.

 

Also, people like that get into a feedback loop. They start believing their own act and become cartoons without realizing it. And yeah, he does believe some of it, he just won't filter it.

 

There's nothing about the guy that people here are missing. No one in this forum has been played.

 

[StrangeSox]

Delaware cop gets off scot-free after punting innocent black man’s head like a football on video

[Jenksismyhero]

This only makes sense if you think that the political parties that candidates choose to align with and draw their support from are random or something. I mean it's basically saying "if Hillary were a radical right-wing Republican trying to appeal to radical right-wing Republicans, she'd do the same thing!"

 

edit: and you can look at her own stances in comparison with what the Democratic base wants, and it doesn't really support that idea. Most liberals are strongly in favor of Universal Health Care and many (possibly most?) support free college plans, but she's criticizing Sanders from the right on both of those issues.

 

Yeah but a lot of the independent and even borderline conservative people that MIGHT vote for her don't support those ideas, or maybe they do in theory but don't see that's its economically feasible. She's playing to her base and to those people who are scared off by how leftist Sanders is. That's entirely consistent with what SS2K5 said.

[NorthSideSox72]

Delaware cop gets off scot-free after punting innocent black man’s head like a football on video

That's awful. Nothing warranted that action by the cop, whatsoever. Subject was compliant in every way. And that guy is going back on the street?

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Yeah but a lot of the independent and even borderline conservative people that MIGHT vote for her don't support those ideas, or maybe they do in theory but don't see that's its economically feasible. She's playing to her base and to those people who are scared off by how leftist Sanders is. That's entirely consistent with what SS2K5 said.

A lot of independent and even borderline conservative people hopefully reject what Trump's saying, though. That's the parallel that ss2k5 was trying to make, and it really just doesn't hold. Trump is appealing to the basest instincts of the conservative base (terrible pun intended) but Clinton is (and always pretty much has) appealing to the center-left of the Democratic party.

 

edit: aside from a few recent years due to Obamacare backlash, a majority of Americans have supported a federal universal health care system for a long, long time.

Edited December 9, 2015 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

The Pros And Cons Of Political Correctness

[StrangeSox]

That's awful. Nothing warranted that action by the cop, whatsoever. Subject was compliant in every way. And that guy is going back on the street?

I really don't know how a jury comes to a "not guilty" verdict there. Hopefully the civil settlement is huge. This is the counterpoint to how effective more dash and body cams will really be. In some cases, sure, in others, no, and not for any easily discernible reason.

 

From a different article

The case hinged on whether Dickerson was in fact moving to a prone position or if, as the defense team claimed, he was in a “sprinter’s position” that would have allowed to lunge or pull a weapon. He is shown with his hands on the ground just before the kick in the dashcam footage.

 

Jesus christ "sprinter's position"

 

Dickerson, who has a criminal history, had been charged with resisting arrest, but the charges were later dropped.

 

And they charged him with resisting arrest.

Edited December 9, 2015 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

lol, OK. Yes clearly none of us know he's doing it to get attention. And by none of us you mean almost all of us.

 

Also, people like that get into a feedback loop. They start believing their own act and become cartoons without realizing it. And yeah, he does believe some of it, he just won't filter it.

 

There's nothing about the guy that people here are missing. No one in this forum has been played.

 

No, no one on this forum wants to believe that they've been played, but they (and you) have been.

[StrangeSox]

What have we been "played" into?

[Y2HH]

What have we been "played" into?

 

Read through this thread and you'll see.

[southsider2k5]

No, no one on this forum wants to believe that they've been played, but they (and you) have been.

 

What you are saying in no way contradicts what I am saying. The man will literally say anything to get elected. On no planet do I want a person like that as President, whether it is Trump, Hillary, or whoever.

[StrangeSox]

Nah, just make your actual point.

 

Trump is currently the frontrunner for the Republican nomination and has been for a long time. It's not exactly surprising that people in a political subforum would comment on him and the toxic ideology he's spreading regardless of whether he really believes it or not. And, again, I see zero reason to assume he doesn't genuinely believe that s*** he's saying.

[Y2HH]

What you are saying in no way contradicts what I am saying. The man will literally say anything to get elected. On no planet do I want a person like that as President, whether it is Trump, Hillary, or whoever.

 

Ok, well, one of you gets it then.

 

In anything he's involved in, be it an election, a contest, or a negotiation, he does this. He will say ANYTHING, including things he KNOWS he cannot do or actually believes.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

Ok, well, one of you gets it then.

 

In anything he's involved in, be it an election, a contest, or a negotiation, he does this. He will say ANYTHING, including things he KNOWS he cannot do or actually believes.

Ok. Presumably, he also says things he believes. I don't doubt, for example, that he knows he couldn't really get Mexico to pay to build a gigantic wall across the entire border, but I see no reason to doubt that he really does have anti-Mexican (along with a bunch of other) bias. In the end, if he's still broadcasting this message and would still try to follow through on it on some level once in office, whether or not he "genuinely believes" in it isn't really relevant. It's giving voice and a major platform to fascist, racist, sexist, bigoted rhetoric.

 

Compare it to George Wallace. Supposedly, he really was not quite the racist asshole he portrayed himself to be in public. Still, he pursued racist policies and spouted racist ideology and gained a decent amount of support for it. Should the people adversely affected by that really care if he "genuinely" believed in what he was saying and doing?

 

edit: earlier in this thread, you said that Trump wouldn't lose by a landslide and would get a lot of votes from a lot of people. Shouldn't we all be concerned that a man who has been saying what Trump has been saying would get such strong support, regardless of whether he truly believes it himself?

Edited December 9, 2015 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

A lot of independent and even borderline conservative people hopefully reject what Trump's saying, though. That's the parallel that ss2k5 was trying to make, and it really just doesn't hold. Trump is appealing to the basest instincts of the conservative base (terrible pun intended) but Clinton is (and always pretty much has) appealing to the center-left of the Democratic party.

 

edit: aside from a few recent years due to Obamacare backlash, a majority of Americans have supported a federal universal health care system for a long, long time.

 

I took his point to mean that both say what people want to hear rather than what they actually believe. Whether that's to a fringe portion of the party (with major power) or to a large portion of the electorate (also with power and opposed to a more extreme candidate) doesn't really matter. They lack an actual message/agenda other than to be President.

[StrangeSox]

Analysis of Republican tax plans from the Tax Foundation:

 

The Tax Policy Center has also analyzed Bush's plan:

 

 

Unsurprisingly, it gives massive breaks to the wealthiest and blows a huge hole in the deficit.

[pettie4sox]

What are some people's beef with Bernie Sanders' policies?

[StrangeSox]

I took his point to mean that both say what people want to hear rather than what they actually believe. Whether that's to a fringe portion of the party (with major power) or to a large portion of the electorate (also with power and opposed to a more extreme candidate) doesn't really matter. They lack an actual message/agenda other than to be President.

 

Ok, but what I think NSS was saying is that even a cynical politician like Hilary has limits on how far she'll go. Trump is neck-deep in the fever swamps of right-wing conservatism and shows no signs of stopping. I'm not even sure what the left-wing equivalent would be (straight-up Maoism?), but we don't have any evidence that Hilary would gladly appeal to the worst aspects of leftist ideologies and doesn't appear to have any personal limits whatsoever. Saying that you'll adjust your position to coincide with a large portion of the electorate covering the middle ground of American politics is quite a bit different than aligning yourself with the farthest 5% fringe.

[StrangeSox]

What are some people's beef with Bernie Sanders' policies?

General ideological opposition to welfare state policies like universal health care and higher taxes especially on the wealthy.

[NorthSideSox72]

No, no one on this forum wants to believe that they've been played, but they (and you) have been.

lol

 

lololololol

 

[Y2HH]

lol

 

lololololol

 

Excellent comeback.

[NorthSideSox72]

Excellent comeback.

You just accused the entire board of being played, by pointing out things you supposedly know, that everyone else does too. Thus I find that the appropriate response.

 

[Y2HH]

You just accused the entire board of being played, by pointing out things you supposedly know, that everyone else does too. Thus I find that the appropriate response.

 

Because you have been played by taking the Donald seriously.