The Republican Thread

[Rex Kickass]

I was a bit wrong in my assumption Rex, it seems as if it is pretty split down the middle (but Republican and Independents as opposed to Republican and Democrats) according to a recent gallup poll in regards to who considers themselves a member of the tea party:

 

That pull was what smacked me as so ingenuous. Democrats consist of 8% of that 51%. Also Gallup, in depth, about the independent number:

 

Of interest are the data based on leaned independents. (We follow up with those who identify as independents and ask: “As of today, do you lean more to the Democratic Party or the Republican Party?”) In this particular poll, the combined categories ended up being 46% Republican/lean Republican and 46% Democrat/lean Democrat.)

 

It appears that a healthy majority of those independents who are supporters of the Tea Party movement lean toward the Republican Party. When we do the math, we end up with 83% of supporters who are Republican or lean Republican, 4% who are pure independent (don’t lean to either party) and 13% who are Democratic or lean Democratic.

 

In other words, people who lean toward the Dem side consist of the 8% who identify as Democrats and the 13% of the independents who say they tend to lean more Dem (by my rough math, that would be about 5.5% of the total number of tea party members).

 

In fact by my math, if you look at the Gallup data with all the crosstabs, it seems like 84% of the tea party members lean Republican, even if nearly half of them don't self identify by party.

[Chisoxfn]

That pull was what smacked me as so ingenuous. Democrats consist of 8% of that 51%. Also Gallup, in depth, about the independent number:

 

 

 

In other words, people who lean toward the Dem side consist of the 8% who identify as Democrats and the 13% of the independents who say they tend to lean more Dem (by my rough math, that would be about 5.5% of the total number of tea party members).

 

In fact by my math, if you look at the Gallup data with all the crosstabs, it seems like 84% of the tea party members lean Republican, even if nearly half of them don't self identify by party.

Well I guess my initial assessment was correct, haha.

[Rex Kickass]

is teabagging an accepted term now?

Depends on what bar you go to.

[kapkomet]

You mean like the past two pages of this thread? Look in a mirror for Christ's sake. When I've gone off, I took some time off. I've been treated very fairly, including the time when I called out NSS for trying to act like an inbetween moral arbiter in the 2008 election and taking sides with you. They are fair. They are extremely lenient.

 

One of the things that has pissed me off, and I don't even like him as a poster, but one of the easy things of this forum is anyone can make fun of AHB and it's fine. People can clearly insult him, and no big deal. Imagine if that was kap.

 

Are you f***ing serious?

 

LMAO. You guys hurl crap at me personally then anyone else, and this post is exactly on that point. But I could care less, because I've just accepted it. Which in a way is bad, because you get the responses that you see about the inherent bias of all of the information posted here. GOVERNMENT SAVES, in 1000 words, or GOVERNMENT SAVES in 2. The point's the same, and then I get mocked for it. Yea, ok. And I go around here suspending people and power grabbing. I'm a ring leader, baby.

 

Yea, please.

 

And SS, I can never be figured out.

 

[southsider2k5]

The problem with this movement is it doesn't have any leaders of any consequence (or at least any supporter would admit to having as a leader), and it doesn't have any real purpose or aim. I can tell you what the Democratic Party stands for and what they would want to do on a substantive level, I can do the same with Republicans (in most cases), I can even do the same with Socialists, the Green Party folks and many other third party and non-aligned party movements. I can't do it with the Tea Party, because I just don't know.

 

I think that makes it easy to say I stand for the "Tea Party" because there's nothing to stand alongside with.

 

Great example of bias in reporting. They stand for lots of things so now they are some how they have no aim. When the Democrats do it, it is called a large umbrella. If you don't know the big things the tea party's stand for, its because you haven't paid attention, or want to dismiss them easily.

[lostfan]

Are you f***ing serious?

 

LMAO. You guys hurl crap at me personally then anyone else, and this post is exactly on that point. But I could care less, because I've just accepted it. Which in a way is bad, because you get the responses that you see about the inherent bias of all of the information posted here. GOVERNMENT SAVES, in 1000 words, or GOVERNMENT SAVES in 2. The point's the same, and then I get mocked for it. Yea, ok. And I go around here suspending people and power grabbing. I'm a ring leader, baby.

 

Yea, please.

 

And SS, I can never be figured out.

kap the point is that when you do that, it's EXTREMELY obnoxious and adds nothing, nothing at all, and it's like a kid who is sitting in a classroom farting while everybody else carries on with their business. I try to be really lenient but sometimes you just get out of control and to be honest, a lot of times I don't want to have to post anything directly, and I just cross my fingers and hope other posters get bored and ignore you. At a certain point though, it's just irresponsible if I don't. You're getting mocked by other posters not for your point of view, but because of the ridiculous ways you convey it (or think you're conveying it).

 

But to whatever you're saying - inherent bias? What? How is there an inherent bias in somebody posting something? That's like me telling you the stuff you posted is inherently biased to a conservative point of view. Um... yeah! That's the whole reason I bother responding to your points in the first place! I know there is a bias. Most of the time I'm in here posting, and this 100% the truth concerning me, I'm either trying to learn something, or trying to educate somebody else. Ranting and shouting really isn't usually my deal.

[lostfan]

Great example of bias in reporting. They stand for lots of things so now they are some how they have no aim. When the Democrats do it, it is called a large umbrella. If you don't know the big things the tea party's stand for, its because you haven't paid attention, or want to dismiss them easily.

Limited government, strict adherence to the Constitution, lower taxes, and deficit reduction. Basically a conservative boilerplate of goals, really none of it is actually new.

 

I went over the difference between Republicans being disciplined and Democrats being a disorganized clusterf*** and why that is a couple of weeks ago

[kapkomet]

kap the point is that when you do that, it's EXTREMELY obnoxious and adds nothing, nothing at all, and it's like a kid who is sitting in a classroom farting while everybody else carries on with their business. I try to be really lenient but sometimes you just get out of control and to be honest, a lot of times I don't want to have to post anything directly, and I just cross my fingers and hope other posters get bored and ignore you. At a certain point though, it's just irresponsible if I don't. You're getting mocked by other posters not for your point of view, but because of the ridiculous ways you convey it (or think you're conveying it).

 

But to whatever you're saying - inherent bias? What? How is there an inherent bias in somebody posting something? That's like me telling you the stuff you posted is inherently biased to a conservative point of view. Um... yeah! That's the whole reason I bother responding to your points in the first place! I know there is a bias. Most of the time I'm in here posting, and this 100% the truth concerning me, I'm either trying to learn something, or trying to educate somebody else. Ranting and shouting really isn't usually my deal.

 

 

Oh, so if I link it to a blog and pretty it up, and then ask circular questions to make "debate" an entirely different point, it's somehow better?

 

This forum ceased to exist about two years ago as anything useful. No one wants to really learn anything, they just want to vent and make people think they are smarter then other people. Whatever. There's a lot of you who really don't get it, and either don't want to, or care to, or want to even bother looking like they might have the capability to learn something else.

[lostfan]

Then don't come here if it's like that for you. Seriously. Not everybody feels that way, no need to piss on everybody else's parade.

 

Oh and in any case you're talking about Balta specifically and you can take that up with Balta, he is a big boy, he can handle it...

[Chisoxfn]

Limited government, strict adherence to the Constitution, lower taxes, and deficit reduction. Basically a conservative boilerplate of goals, really none of it is actually new.

 

I went over the difference between Republicans being disciplined and Democrats being a disorganized clusterf*** and why that is a couple of weeks ago

Ya, it is basically what the republican party should be and goes back to all of the basic fundamental principles that I support and feel are best for our country to prosper!! I'm excited that my republican party is finally back.

[kapkomet]

Then don't come here if it's like that for you. Seriously. Not everybody feels that way, no need to piss on everybody else's parade.

 

Oh and in any case you're talking about Balta specifically and you can take that up with Balta, he is a big boy, he can handle it...

 

 

Ok dude.

 

Look at the last two pages and think about it a little bit.

[lostfan]

Ok dude.

 

Look at the last two pages and think about it a little bit.

NSS losing his composure, then calling you out, then me taking issue with the characterization of how this forum is run, then Rex and Gage going back and forth for a while on polls, then me and you... like I said, I read every post, albeit sometimes delayed... what are you getting at? Everyone is out to get you? Even me? Come on, you know me better than that (and this is reaching the point where I don't feel comfortable talking out in the open anymore)

[lostfan]

Ya, it is basically what the republican party should be and goes back to all of the basic fundamental principles that I support and feel are best for our country to prosper!! I'm excited that my republican party is finally back.

I think it's all a lot more nuanced than that, personally. Republican politicians don't like to stray from the line they draw at all, for any reason, like for example if a Republican at the national level supports a tax increase, or a government program (of a particular type) they get ripped a new one for not being truly conservative. When someone succeeds (Gingrich reducing the deficit) it's because they were truly committed, if they fail (Bush) then it's because they weren't conservative enough and they need to get back to the basics and be more firm in their principles. This is kind of ironic to me though, because Gingrich got blamed for failing to do some things and got voted out as Speaker in the 90s because they said he wasn't committed enough and compromised too much, which makes no sense because he shut the government down out of a refusal to budge, more than once. And Reagan raised taxes more than a couple of times too (and pulled the Marines out of Beiruit after the bombing - by today's standards, the paragon of all things Republican would be a horrible Republican today).

 

If I say the Tea Party is "incoherent" it's because they want to lower taxes, but they also say they're deficit hawks - which makes no sense to me, even if you completely factor out healthcare reform. We already cut taxes, a few times, and it added to the deficit. It has to be one or the other.

[kapkomet]

NSS losing his composure, then calling you out, then me taking issue with the characterization of how this forum is run, then Rex and Gage going back and forth for a while on polls, then me and you... like I said, I read every post, albeit sometimes delayed... what are you getting at? Everyone is out to get you? Even me? Come on, you know me better than that (and this is reaching the point where I don't feel comfortable talking out in the open anymore)

 

First, you're not the problem. Second, people calling me out? Please. I could care less. Third, the macro point here is a very large one and the whole problem behind this forum now, but almost everyone here won't get it nor care to. And yes, I'm part of the problem, but I don't cover it up with a bunch of verbose bulls*** to have a different type of appearance. Most of the time, behind the obnoxiousness of "Kaperbole ™", there's a larger point that no one really gives a s*** about. It's a baseball forum, right? (Incoherent point here... yes...)

 

/back to people having real conversation... at this rate, maybe this'll catch up to the Dem thread...

[kapkomet]

I think it's all a lot more nuanced than that, personally. Republican politicians don't like to stray from the line they draw at all, for any reason, like for example if a Republican at the national level supports a tax increase, or a government program (of a particular type) they get ripped a new one for not being truly conservative. When someone succeeds (Gingrich reducing the deficit) it's because they were truly committed, if they fail (Bush) then it's because they weren't conservative enough and they need to get back to the basics and be more firm in their principles. This is kind of ironic to me though, because Gingrich got blamed for failing to do some things and got voted out as Speaker in the 90s because they said he wasn't committed enough and compromised too much, which makes no sense because he shut the government down out of a refusal to budge, more than once. And Reagan raised taxes more than a couple of times too (and pulled the Marines out of Beiruit after the bombing - by today's standards, the paragon of all things Republican would be a horrible Republican today).

 

If I say the Tea Party is "incoherent" it's because they want to lower taxes, but they also say they're deficit hawks - which makes no sense to me, even if you completely factor out healthcare reform. We already cut taxes, a few times, and it added to the deficit. It has to be one or the other.

 

Reduced taxes does not equal larger deficits by itself. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand? Keynsian economics is working swellingly, right?

[lostfan]

I agree that it's a macro issue, but it is what it is. There are 2, maybe 3 times as many left-leaning posters as there are right-leaning posters.

[kapkomet]

I agree that it's a macro issue, but it is what it is. There are 2, maybe 3 times as many left-leaning posters as there are right-leaning posters.

 

 

And that's perfectly fine.

[lostfan]

Reduced taxes does not equal larger deficits by itself. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand? Keynsian economics is working swellingly, right?

I've done my own reading but I'm not an economics whiz so I have a hard time explaining it. It depends on where the budget is exactly, who is getting the tax cuts, and how much. Having the tax rate go up 2 or 3 percent doesn't have any real effect on GDP growth, and cutting it sometimes helps, but over the last 20 years this has been waaaaaay overstated. The idea that "tax cuts stimulate growth" is on a top 5 list of tired political cliches somewhere. If this logic held true then the Soviet Union with its 100% tax rate wouldn't have been able to have its military machine that was equal to (or maybe better than) ours, and developed satellites before we did or nuclear weapons only a few years later, because its economy would've been non-existent. Obviously the USSR isn't exactly a model of economic efficiency and it imploded on itself a few decades later but you see my larger point.

[kapkomet]

The bigger issue is you can't cut taxes and then increase your spending by 10%. That obviously doesn't work. But it's been proven over and over that the revenues received goes higher when taxes are cut. It's just Congress is so stupid about it that we're left the other way.

[Rex Kickass]

I was a bit wrong in my assumption Rex, it seems as if it is pretty split down the middle (but Republican and Independents as opposed to Republican and Democrats) according to a recent gallup poll in regards to who considers themselves a member of the tea party:

 

New Fox News poll asked people if they have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the Tea Party among other parties, people and government apparatuses. 36% thought favorably of the Tea Party. 49% thought favorably of the IRS. Just thought that was kinda funny and tangentially related.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/040810...HC_2010_web.pdf

[Balta1701]

The bigger issue is you can't cut taxes and then increase your spending by 10%. That obviously doesn't work. But it's been proven over and over that the revenues received goes higher when taxes are cut. It's just Congress is so stupid about it that we're left the other way.

So...it couldn't be that revenues are going higher because the government running a deficit in a time of low inflation is a stimulative measure (regardless of whether it achieves that deficit through tax cuts or wars)?

 

I know you'll still disagree, but I'd also point out that after the Bush tax cuts, tax receipts didn't recover to pre-cut levels until the peak of the bubble...which was in itself, in part I'd argue, related to the wealth concentrating effects of cutting the top level tax rate.

[StrangeSox]

The bigger issue is you can't cut taxes and then increase your spending by 10%. That obviously doesn't work. But it's been proven over and over that the revenues received goes higher when taxes are cut. It's just Congress is so stupid about it that we're left the other way.

 

[DukeNukeEm]

I lol'd

[Cknolls]

is teabagging an accepted term now?

 

Real mature isn't it? Just like the NJ Teachers joking about Christie's death.

[Cknolls]

Reduced taxes does not equal larger deficits by itself. Why is that such a hard concept for people to understand? Keynsian economics is working swellingly, right?

 

 

MORE STIMULUS! ! MORE STIMULUS!!! MORE STIMULUS!!!!!