Jenksismyhero Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:26 PM) I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but the Obama regime has been caught using the IRS to attack political opponents. This is the kind of stuff you see in third world dictatorships. Very disturbing. Meh, that's a GOP tactic. No way Obama was behind this. In fact, I think Bush did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) Meh, that's a GOP tactic. No way Obama was behind this. In fact, I think Bush did it. Bush's fault. no need to look any deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) Meh, that's a GOP tactic. No way Obama was behind this. In fact, I think Bush did it. "“Unfortunately, you’ve grown up hearing voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s at the root of all our problems. Some of these same voices also do their best to gum up the works. They’ll warn that tyranny always lurking just around the corner. You should reject these voices. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'm surprised we don't have an immigration reform thread yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) I think it was pretty nice of those IRS peons that didn't really know about this (but really did), to hold off the story until after the election. http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report...ion_724711.html Edited May 17, 2013 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) Meh, that's a GOP tactic. No way Obama was behind this. In fact, I think Bush did it. The IRS was run by a Bush appointee at the time! I think you're on to something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:33 PM) I think it was pretty nice of those IRS peons that didn't really know about this (but really did), held off the story until after the election. http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/report...ion_724711.html all jokes aside, it really is a big deal. the IRS has the power to take everything you own and put you in jail. when they are illegally going after people simply because they are not a registered Democrat, or are an organization that does not support Obama, that is a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) The IRS was run by a Bush appointee at the time! he needed to appease his new boss by doing his bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:38 PM) all jokes aside, it really is a big deal. the IRS has the power to take everything you own and put you in jail. when they are illegally going after people simply because they are not a registered Democrat, or are an organization that does not support Obama, that is a big deal. Ok, all jokes aside, how much do you know about 501©4 groups and what the IRS was actually doing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) what the IRS was actually doing here? maybe you should educate me on the issue. so the IRS was doing nothing wrong? Edited May 17, 2013 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 As you indicated earlier, the fall-out is probably going to be some people fired or reassigned and even less enforcement of the 501©4 rules. Boo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 HEre's the IG's report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/141606149/Inspec...pt-Applications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) HEre's the IG's report: http://www.scribd.com/doc/141606149/Inspec...pt-Applications oh so they did specifically go after organizations because they were critical of the Obama regime. a bold first step to use the IRS as a weapon against political opponents. just imagine the possibilities when taken much further. Edited May 17, 2013 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 weak troll, shows minimal effort, little creativity. D+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:55 PM) weak troll, shows minimal effort, little creativity. D+. i'm surprised you don't see why using the IRS like this is bad for the country. i just think it needs to be dealt with immediately and with appropriate consequences (jail time) for the perpetrators. ok, so maybe Obama wasn't telling them to do it, but it needs to be looked into. was anyone from the regime giving these orders to the IRS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Yo, good news! It's being looked into! In fact, there was an IG investigation and a DoJ investigation has already been started! FBI too! Wow! Even Congress is getting in on the act! Edited May 17, 2013 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:03 PM) Yo, good news! It's being looked into! In fact, there was an IG investigation and a DoJ investigation has already been started! FBI too! Wow! Even Congress is getting in on the act! well, just as long as the investigation isn't being conducted by the Obama regime. That's like having a mafia trial and the judge and jury are all mafia members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 17, 2013 -> 02:45 PM) Ok, all jokes aside, how much do you know about 501©4 groups and what the IRS was actually doing here? Oh please. At a minimum they went way overboard in an attempt to slow/impede these groups from getting their tax status. But really they went beyond that when they basically became an investigative arm finding out donor information. What the f*** does facebook posts or tweets have to do with the application? Not a god damn thing and you know it. You b**** about the GOP blocking political appointees, this is the same s*** but in the tax world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) why don't you educate me on the issue. My problem with calling this an enormous scandal is that I can't figure out how the IRS can legally do the job it was tasked with. I keep telling people who want to call this a scandal that I'll agree with them as soon as they explain how the IRS could do its job without breaking the law. 501©4 groups are a tax advantaged status granted by the IRS but with the caveat that the groups are not supposed to take advantage of their status to perform political activities. Their "Primary purpose" (note that term, that's what the law says) is supposed to be "Social welfare". They are allowed to spend money on electioneering, but their "Primary purpose" is supposed to be social welfare. Nobody in their right mind believes this is being enforced, because it's become almost impossible to enforce. Crossroads GPS and Priorities USA, the Rove led and Obama led super-PAC associated groups...are 501©4 groups. If you actually believe their primary purpose is anything but campaigning, I have a bridge to sell you. So we have these groups with their status completely murky. "Primary purpose" is apparently so weak that Karl Rove and Obama could drive trucks full of money through the loophole. Normally, the job of determining whether these groups are engaged in electioneering and setting rules to define "primary purpose" should not be the job of the IRS. It's the job of the Federal Elections Commission, a bipartisan group appointed by both parties in Congress supposedly to make those rules. But the FEC has been effectively neutered over the past decade. Congress could also make rules here...but Congress has shut itself down too. The Citizens United case destroyed the text of the law that defined how these groups could operate, and the FEC is a 6 member commission composed of 6 members whose terms have all expired. The FEC is able to operate and do a few things, but basically they've been shut down because the President and Congress won't act to put anyone new on it. So, the people who should be deciding those rules are refusing to do so. Now go to the IRS. These groups start petitioning the IRS for guidance on whether or not they qualify for 501©4 status after the Citizens United case, but there are literally no rules for determining whether or not they qualify. These groups are voluntarily asking the IRS for guidance (guys like Crossroads and Priorities don't need to do so, they can afford their own lawyers). The IRS can't refuse to offer guidance, but it also has zero information about how to judge whether "Tea Party Patriots for taking our country back" is a group dedicated to social welfare or is a group dedicated to electioneering. So yes, the IRS officials probably broke the law by signaling these groups out by name for additional questions...but it's happening because it should never have gotten to that point. The IRS is not the organization that should be making these rules and interpreting "primary purpose" because the IRS shouldn't be singling out specific political groups. The problem is the IRS literally has no option. They can't not offer guidance to groups asking for guidance on their tax status, but they can't single out groups that any reasonable person would say "This is a political group" and start asking whether they're political groups. Congress and the FEC should have fixed this mess a long time ago. Instead, they left it to the IRS to make a literally impossible decision - they have to pick which part of the law they need to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Here is the story of one of the individuals who was illegally targeted by the IRS http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/17...are-to-sue-irs/ Edited May 17, 2013 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ May 17, 2013 -> 08:10 PM) Here is the story of one of the individuals who was illegally targeted by the IRS http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/17...are-to-sue-irs/ So basically a guy who runs a political organization that has no business getting 501c4 status in the first place. My heart aches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) My problem with calling this an enormous scandal is that I can't figure out how the IRS can legally do the job it was tasked with. I keep telling people who want to call this a scandal that I'll agree with them as soon as they explain how the IRS could do its job without breaking the law. 501©4 groups are a tax advantaged status granted by the IRS but with the caveat that the groups are not supposed to take advantage of their status to perform political activities. Their "Primary purpose" (note that term, that's what the law says) is supposed to be "Social welfare". They are allowed to spend money on electioneering, but their "Primary purpose" is supposed to be social welfare. Nobody in their right mind believes this is being enforced, because it's become almost impossible to enforce. Crossroads GPS and Priorities USA, the Rove led and Obama led super-PAC associated groups...are 501©4 groups. If you actually believe their primary purpose is anything but campaigning, I have a bridge to sell you. So we have these groups with their status completely murky. "Primary purpose" is apparently so weak that Karl Rove and Obama could drive trucks full of money through the loophole. Normally, the job of determining whether these groups are engaged in electioneering and setting rules to define "primary purpose" should not be the job of the IRS. It's the job of the Federal Elections Commission, a bipartisan group appointed by both parties in Congress supposedly to make those rules. But the FEC has been effectively neutered over the past decade. Congress could also make rules here...but Congress has shut itself down too. The Citizens United case destroyed the text of the law that defined how these groups could operate, and the FEC is a 6 member commission composed of 6 members whose terms have all expired. The FEC is able to operate and do a few things, but basically they've been shut down because the President and Congress won't act to put anyone new on it. So, the people who should be deciding those rules are refusing to do so. Now go to the IRS. These groups start petitioning the IRS for guidance on whether or not they qualify for 501©4 status after the Citizens United case, but there are literally no rules for determining whether or not they qualify. These groups are voluntarily asking the IRS for guidance (guys like Crossroads and Priorities don't need to do so, they can afford their own lawyers). The IRS can't refuse to offer guidance, but it also has zero information about how to judge whether "Tea Party Patriots for taking our country back" is a group dedicated to social welfare or is a group dedicated to electioneering. So yes, the IRS officials probably broke the law by signaling these groups out by name for additional questions...but it's happening because it should never have gotten to that point. The IRS is not the organization that should be making these rules and interpreting "primary purpose" because the IRS shouldn't be singling out specific political groups. The problem is the IRS literally has no option. They can't not offer guidance to groups asking for guidance on their tax status, but they can't single out groups that any reasonable person would say "This is a political group" and start asking whether they're political groups. Congress and the FEC should have fixed this mess a long time ago. Instead, they left it to the IRS to make a literally impossible decision - they have to pick which part of the law they need to ignore. well, if they were going after pro-Democrat organizations too that would be different. It appears they only were attacking those whom would be seen as potential political opponents. For example, I heard pro-Obama 501©4's were never hassled. So that is the real scandal here. Using the IRS to attack political opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ May 17, 2013 -> 04:17 PM) well, if they were going after pro-Democrat organizations too that would be different. It appears they only were attacking those whom would be seen as potential political opponents. For example, I heard pro-Obama 501©4's were never hassled. So that is the real scandal here. Using the IRS to attack political opponents. Here's a couple pro-Democratic groups that received the same letter, one of which actually had the IRS state that its status was denied. I will fully admit that there were more "Tea party" groups that received these letters...but ask yourself this question...how many new "Tea Party" groups attempted to form after 2010 versus how many Democratic groups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) Here's a couple pro-Democratic groups that received the same letter, one of which actually had the IRS state that its status was denied. I will fully admit that there were more "Tea party" groups that received these letters...but ask yourself this question...how many new "Tea Party" groups attempted to form after 2010 versus how many Democratic groups? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archiv...in-2010/275985/ There was no overall huge increase in the amount of applicants, so there was no need for short cut screening procedures that singled out one 'side' over another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 QUOTE (CrimsonWeltall @ May 17, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) So basically a guy who runs a political organization that has no business getting 501c4 status in the first place. My heart aches. One thing the IG's reported noted is that you're allowed to sue the IRS after 270 days if your application isn't processed, but nobody did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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