The Republican Thread

[Balta1701]

Talking about the talking point pundits. There doesn't even need to be a Democrat thread, just a link to the main liberal blogs.

If we're just throwing out insults, let me join in. There doesn't need to be a Republican thread either, just a posting of Glenn Beck's nightly show.

[southsider2k5]

In that part of his speech, he was talking about how he was familiar with the religion, how he's been exposed to their culture, and he understands what it means to be a Muslim etc. Yes, he was pointing out his father's religious background. Actually his father's family's religious background. That was the entire point of him bringing it up. Now, his father comes from a Muslim family, that's not really a secret, and then he later became an atheist. Nothing he said in that part of the speech contradicted anything he's previously said or changed his tone. It's quite obvious that some random talking head/blogger read that snippet and drew their own arbitrary conclusion to say "omg Obama is lying again lol."

 

If that is actually what he meant, that is really bad. That is not going to help mend relations with Islam, because the worst possible thing you can do is desert the religion. That is a cause for death to his father.

[BigSqwert]

If we're just throwing out insults, let me join in. There doesn't need to be a Republican thread either, just a posting of Glenn Beck's nightly show.

Who? This guy? -->

[southsider2k5]

If we're just throwing out insults, let me join in. There doesn't need to be a Republican thread either, just a posting of Glenn Beck's nightly show.

 

It won't be any different than usual to be honest. Its gone on for eight years, why would it change now that the Dems are in power. They still can't laugh at themselves, so it isn't going to change.

[Balta1701]

If that is actually what he meant, that is really bad. That is not going to help mend relations with Islam, because the worst possible thing you can do is desert the religion. That is a cause for death to his father.

Somehow I doubt that all of Islam interprets the texts that way. It's the part that does that we need to marginalize.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

How is it not? My father came from a family including lots of "X" still does not mean my father = "X".

 

For real? Comparing gender to anything such as religion is just ridiculous.

 

"My father came from a family with generations of Muslims."

 

Generations=At least parents + grandparents. Probably more, but you can't tell from that statement. It's West Africa. It's tradition-rich and he came from a village (right?) not a city. Traditions, customs, ways of life etc are passed down more so in those situations than in present day big city USA. Pointing out all that about his father absolutely was meant to insinuate he was Muslim. Absolutely without a doubt. Think of who his audience is. How knowledgeable are the general public? To not see that requires massive blinders.

 

For arguments sake, if it wasn't meant to insinuate anything about his father being Muslim, then what the f*** was the point in saying it?

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

It won't be any different than usual to be honest. Its gone on for eight years, why would it change now that the Dems are in power. They still can't laugh at themselves, so it isn't going to change.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

That's not a strawman, it's a direct analogy.

 

Mathematically correct? Yes. Common sense equivalent? GMAB

[lostfan]

If that is actually what he meant, that is really bad. That is not going to help mend relations with Islam, because the worst possible thing you can do is desert the religion. That is a cause for death to his father.

??? That was like the absolute least relevant part (that his father was an atheist). That's why he didn't even bring it up and talked about his father's family instead.

[BigSqwert]

Mathematically correct? Yes. Common sense equivalent? GMAB

You're confusing your bias with common sense.

[lostfan]

For arguments sake, if it wasn't meant to insinuate anything about his father being Muslim, then what the f*** was the point in saying it?

Post #3398

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Im confusing bias with common sense.

 

Fixed.

[southsider2k5]

Somehow I doubt that all of Islam interprets the texts that way. It's the part that does that we need to marginalize.

 

Its not easy to interpret this any other way really.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_I...e_death_penalty

 

Whosoever will, let him believe and whosoever will, let him disbelieve ([Qur'an 18:29])", and on the other to threaten to punish by death who renounces Islam and moves to reject Islam.

[lostfan]

You guys are killing me and this has turned into bulls*** quickly. I'm not going to re-post what I already said for anyone who couldn't be bothered to read it, but the point is that yes, he glossed over (actually omitted) the fact that his father was an atheist to make a larger point that he understood Islam. Nowhere in there did he say his father was a Muslim. If you're that hung up on that one sentence of a 16-page speech to the point where you disagree w/me that he was actually trying to say that, then I don't know what to tell you.

[southsider2k5]

??? That was like the absolute least relevant part (that his father was an atheist). That's why he didn't even bring it up and talked about his father's family instead.

 

It doesn't matter really. Culturally that would be the most important part to a religion that tells us anyone who abandons Islam is supposed to die. If he is trying to connect with them through someone who deserted them, that would be the American equivalent of saying "Hey my great-great-great Grandfather used to own yours." Its a cultural taboo.

[southsider2k5]

You guys are killing me and this has turned into bulls*** quickly. I'm not going to re-post what I already said for anyone who couldn't be bothered to read it, but the point is that yes, he glossed over (actually omitted) the fact that his father was an atheist to make a larger point that he understood Islam. Nowhere in there did he say his father was a Muslim. If you're that hung up on that one sentence of a 16-page speech to the point where you disagree w/me that he was actually trying to say that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

I'm not even in the first argument. I am just pointing out that if he is really trying to connect to Islam through someone who deserted the faith, that is not very smart at all.

[lostfan]

I'm not even in the first argument. I am just pointing out that if he is really trying to connect to Islam through someone who deserted the faith, that is not very smart at all.

I wasn't trying to call you out, my bad, I just didn't like how far away I was getting from my original point.

[lostfan]

It doesn't matter really. Culturally that would be the most important part to a religion that tells us anyone who abandons Islam is supposed to die. If he is trying to connect with them through someone who deserted them, that would be the American equivalent of saying "Hey my great-great-great Grandfather used to own yours." Its a cultural taboo.

I don't dispute that apostasy = treason to them, I'm just saying... he didn't want that to be a focus of his speech. He's not going to come out and say "well my father used to be Muslim but he actually was an atheist" because that would be dumb as hell, like you said.

[southsider2k5]

I don't dispute that apostasy = treason to them, I'm just saying... he didn't want that to be a focus of his speech. He's not going to come out and say "well my father used to be Muslim but he actually was an atheist" because that would be dumb as hell, like you said.

 

Bush didn't want the word "Crusade" to be the focus of the speech over there either... If you say the wrong thing, it will be the focus.

[lostfan]

Bush didn't want the word "Crusade" to be the focus of the speech over there either... If you say the wrong thing, it will be the focus.

Right, and it would've been dumb of Obama to talk about his father's apostasy in a Muslim country. I don't know why that talking point's gotten traction (well, actually I do, but...), and kap isn't the first one I saw say it, he just happened to be the one who said it on here.

[StrangeSox]

Seriously?

 

How is the phrase "my father came from a Kenyan family that includes generations of Muslims" not supposed to insinuate that his father was Muslim?

 

And if it wasn't what was the point of that statement? To say that his relatives on his father's side have been Muslim in the past but may or may not still be but they definitely were in the past?

 

GMAB. That totally was meant to point to his father's religious background.

 

I don't give two s***s what religion he or his family is, but I can't see how one can argue that was not what was meant.

 

You make fun of Kap for saying stuff but it seems as if someone is always grasping at something to try and contradict him, no matter what it was he said.

 

I come from German and Irish families that include generations of Christians (Catholics and Lutherans, to be specific). I do not share that same religion, but I am aware of it and Christian culture because I have been exposed to it.

[Balta1701]

Its not easy to interpret this any other way really.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_I...e_death_penalty

It's interesting how much of the actual debate in that wikipedia post you ignored.

[lostfan]

It's interesting how much of the actual debate in that wikipedia post you ignored.

What debate... what do you mean? Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. Whether it's universally accepted by Muslims I guess is debatable but that's not the point, it's prevalent enough that 2K5 is right that it's definitely a cultural taboo.

[Balta1701]

What debate... what do you mean? Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam. Whether it's universally accepted by Muslims I guess is debatable but that's not the point, it's prevalent enough that 2K5 is right that it's definitely a cultural taboo.

And Christians aren't allowed to eat shellfish. It is an abomination to them to eat anything that comes from the sea. If you just glance through that Wikipedia page, yes, it is enforced, but it's also clearly the subject of one of those theological debates we keep saying that Islam actually needs to have.

[kapkomet]

lf, it's not what he said in the speech today, it was what he said in a presser yesterday. I will have to go see if I can find the link, since I just cleared my cookies and cache.