The Republican Thread

[mr_genius]

And every other health care system in the developed world spends something like 2/3 to 1/2 the amount ours does while producing results that are at least equal and are in many cases vastly better, while not leaving 20% of its population out in the cold.

 

many have limits of what medical providers can charge. see Germany and Japan.

Edited June 9, 2009 by mr_genius

[lostfan]

how do you suggest we force the health care industry to lower their outrageous prices?

Regulate the profits of insurance companies and the drug manufacturers (how to do this, I don't know). I'm not sure which one of those I hate more, but they work together. Drug companies can charge whatever they want, and the consumer never even knows how much they're paying since their insurance pays for it. And oh by the way - if you need to use your insurance, they charge you for it. It's pretty obvious the only thing they're interested is money, not your health. They don't even try to hide it. I don't think our current system is in the public's best interest at all.

Edited June 9, 2009 by lostfan

[StrangeSox]

Private industry ALWAYS does it better then the government - even if private industry sucks.

Chicago parking meters.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

how do you suggest we force the health care industry to lower their outrageous prices?

I don't know the solution, but I think part of it has to be a re-entry of consumerism into that markeplace. In the current situation, with the insurance companies between and their billing structures effectively negasting any level of consumer choice or control, the whole system is out of whack.

 

[kapkomet]

Regulate the profits of insurance companies and the drug manufacturers (how to do this, I don't know). I'm not sure which one of those I hate more, but they work together. Drug companies can charge whatever they want, and the consumer never even knows how much they're paying since their insurance pays for it. And oh by the way - if you need to use your insurance, they charge you for it. It's pretty obvious the only thing they're interested is money, not your health. They don't even try to hide it. I don't think our current system is in the public's best interest at all.

I had a post on here somewhere about how pharma companies work, seeing as how I used to work for one. And also how to reduce costs.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I don't know the solution, but I think part of it has to be a re-entry of consumerism into that markeplace. In the current situation, with the insurance companies between and their billing structures effectively negasting any level of consumer choice or control, the whole system is out of whack.

This is why the "Public Option" as proposed by the President is such a brilliant move. If the Republicans are right and the public insurance option is a government run debacle...then what happens is we've altered the tax structure enough to find a way to push the uninsured in to the ranks of the insured,and hopefully cut costs because we won't have 50 million people using the vastly more expensive emergency care systems and getting appropriate preventative care.

 

If, on the other hand, I'm right and the public system will be vastly more efficient than the private debacles we currently have...then either the private system will have to lower its costs to stay competitive or it will go extinct.

 

There really is no downside for anyone other than a current insurance company executive. If the Republicans are right, then the public option barely costs anything, if the Democrats are right, then the public option keeps this country out of bankruptcy.

[kapkomet]

This is why the "Public Option" as proposed by the President is such a brilliant move. If the Republicans are right and the public insurance option is a government run debacle...then what happens is we've altered the tax structure enough to find a way to push the uninsured in to the ranks of the insured,and hopefully cut costs because we won't have 50 million people using the vastly more expensive emergency care systems and getting appropriate preventative care.

 

If, on the other hand, I'm right and the public system will be vastly more efficient than the private debacles we currently have...then either the private system will have to lower its costs to stay competitive or it will go extinct.

 

There really is no downside for anyone other than a current insurance company executive. If the Republicans are right, then the public option barely costs anything, if the Democrats are right, then the public option keeps this country out of bankruptcy.

 

 

This is the best quote from you ever.

[Balta1701]

 

This is the best quote from you ever.

Don't know why that's so funny.

 

The only real long-term budgetary hole is Medicare.

 

Medicare's budgetary hole is entirely due to the fact that health care costs in 10 years will be like 30% of the economy.

 

Failing to control health care costs in the next 10 years destroys this economy and bankrupts the country.

 

Forcing down health care costs is the only way to avoid that.

[NorthSideSox72]

This is why the "Public Option" as proposed by the President is such a brilliant move. If the Republicans are right and the public insurance option is a government run debacle...then what happens is we've altered the tax structure enough to find a way to push the uninsured in to the ranks of the insured,and hopefully cut costs because we won't have 50 million people using the vastly more expensive emergency care systems and getting appropriate preventative care.

 

If, on the other hand, I'm right and the public system will be vastly more efficient than the private debacles we currently have...then either the private system will have to lower its costs to stay competitive or it will go extinct.

 

There really is no downside for anyone other than a current insurance company executive. If the Republicans are right, then the public option barely costs anything, if the Democrats are right, then the public option keeps this country out of bankruptcy.

Not what I was getting at, when I said consumer choice.

 

Here is what I mean, in very brief terms. When you go to spend money on something, you find the product that is the combination of best and cheapest, to get the most value of it. With insurance companies, this choice is entirely gone. If you have insurance, you find a doctor, and pay them all the same damn amount. Further, when you have hospitalization or other charges, its nearly impossible to know how much you really end up paying, AND you don't get to really choose a provider, they are chosen for you. On the flip side, the medical professionals charge some amount, the insurance company uses formulas only they know to dictate how much they actually pay and charge down, and then the customer billing is decided.

 

By having the insurance companies between like this, the normal equation of consumer choice is shot to hell.

 

[southsider2k5]

This is why the "Public Option" as proposed by the President is such a brilliant move. If the Republicans are right and the public insurance option is a government run debacle...then what happens is we've altered the tax structure enough to find a way to push the uninsured in to the ranks of the insured,and hopefully cut costs because we won't have 50 million people using the vastly more expensive emergency care systems and getting appropriate preventative care.

 

If, on the other hand, I'm right and the public system will be vastly more efficient than the private debacles we currently have...then either the private system will have to lower its costs to stay competitive or it will go extinct.

 

There really is no downside for anyone other than a current insurance company executive. If the Republicans are right, then the public option barely costs anything, if the Democrats are right, then the public option keeps this country out of bankruptcy.

 

Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***.

[lostfan]

I had a post on here somewhere about how pharma companies work, seeing as how I used to work for one. And also how to reduce costs.

Had to do with taxes or something didn't it?

[kapkomet]

Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***.

Exactly - the sky is falling - leaving "Americans out in the cold". People make choices, and it effects a lot of things, including the ability to get health care. I'll repeat it again. Health care is not a right - to tie it to the PURSUIT of happiness doesn't mean it's a right. People have the right to pursue anything they want. And if it doesn't pay insurance bills, people made some choices that got them there to that point. So now, that (insert bulls*** number here) million people have to be covered by a government health program that is being rigged to force everyone off of private insurance, all in the name of controlling costs.

 

I bet some people here are right - health care costs will be 1/3 the cost it is now in the future. It's because there will be only 1/100 of the services currently provided.

 

The Obama plan is not "brilliant". It's a one way track to a single payor in disguise. He has to do it in increments because otherwise it's HilliaryCare all over again, and he knows it. However, in three to five years time, it will all be dictated by some f***ing suits in DC what health care we all get. I'm glad that's acceptable to people, but it's not me.

[mr_genius]

Regulate the profits of insurance companies and the drug manufacturers (how to do this, I don't know). I'm not sure which one of those I hate more, but they work together. Drug companies can charge whatever they want, and the consumer never even knows how much they're paying since their insurance pays for it. And oh by the way - if you need to use your insurance, they charge you for it. It's pretty obvious the only thing they're interested is money, not your health. They don't even try to hide it. I don't think our current system is in the public's best interest at all.

 

it's not all the insurance and drug companies. you need to limit the profits of doctors and health providers as well.

[mr_genius]

I bet some people here are right - health care costs will be 1/3 the cost it is now in the future. It's because there will be only 1/100 of the services currently provided.

 

The Obama plan is not "brilliant". It's a one way track to a single payor in disguise.

 

Health care costs will continue to balloon out of control, and we will end up with single payer government system which will require massive tax increases if costs are not addressed.

[mr_genius]

Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***.

 

free health care for the world. why not? you can get here somehow you get free health care. everything free; surgery, doctor visits, hospital stays, everything. we can afford it. the country is only 12 trillion in debt.

[Balta1701]

free health care for the world. why not? you can get here somehow you get free health care. everything free; surgery, doctor visits, hospital stays, everything. we can afford it. the country is only 12 trillion in debt.

How does every other Western country afford it then?

[mr_genius]

How does every other Western country afford it then?

 

completely different demographics.

[mr_genius]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ambrose_evans...ression_deepens

 

should the US follow this European trend as well?

[kapkomet]

How does every other Western country afford it then?

They ration the s*** out of it, they deny care and have year(s) long waiting lists, and I could go on. Oh, and they tax the piss out of their citizens. Obviously, we don't tax enough here.

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

completely different demographics.

You're right. The Demographics are completely different. Europe has a significantly higher %age of over-65 citizens than the U.S. does.

 

Normally, one would expect that would make health care for them a fair amount more expensive. What bit of demographics were you citing?

[kapkomet]

Not that about half of that number of uninsured is illegal aliens or anything... I hate that number because it is such bulls***.

And a lot of this number are people who opt out as well.

 

[Balta1701]

And a lot of this number are people who opt out as well.

Don't you realize that having people actually opt out is a big part of killing the system?

[kapkomet]

Don't you realize that having people actually opt out is a big part of killing the system?

Again, it's a choice. People opt out for any number of reasons. They want to party instead of have health insurance. They are "young" and don't think they need it. It's expensive to that person... even though they knew that when the position was offered.

 

So, people "opt out" and they go to a county hospital and get treatment anyway. So because of that, let's nationalize the whole thing! Yea, no over-reaction there. Oh, "we have a choice of public or private insurance under the Messiah plan". Bulls***. We won't after long because they are going to "incentivize" people to get on the gov't plan. Let's tax private insurance. Let's cut the business deductions for insurance. Let's have a VAT. We have to pay for this somehow! How fast will it take people and businesses to drop out of what they have now, because individuals are "getting a better deal" and "businesses simply can't carry that cost anymore" - that's when they have people by the balls, and they know it.

[kapkomet]

Yep, most important article ever. Headline news right here!

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_foodie_in_the_house

[Rex Kickass]

They ration the s*** out of it, they deny care and have year(s) long waiting lists, and I could go on. Oh, and they tax the piss out of their citizens. Obviously, we don't tax enough here.

 

Not really entirely true.

 

Although, there are many cases where I'd rather get treated here than in some European countries - mostly because many European hospitals don't have AC - many countries cut down costs by focusing on preventative treatment first. Look at what France does with its children, for example. Also, I have gotten ill and been treated in more than one western European country. There was never a bill, I got the treatment I needed promptly and quickly.

 

And Doctors do quite well for themselves there too. My father's friend, a Doctor owns a country house and a townhouse in the city. My uncle's late friend had a palatial penthouse suite in the city, and a giant oceanside mansion in the French riviera.

 

There is a lot to be improved in the way health care is managed in Europe - but for many, if not most people in the US, its a far superior approach to what we currently see.