The Republican Thread

[BearSox]

lol, I love this... It's pretty much man vs. nature, and people are actually rooting for the nature. I mean, I don't want to f*** up the environment, but to say that drilling for oil or going into the rockies and extracting shale oil is going to mess up the planet is silly. You are acting like as oil is some evil element, but when it is indeed a natural product that this planet produces.

 

So, um Balta, why is it okay for other countries to drill for oil, but not us? Also, I have another question for you, do you actually believe in the farce called global warming

[lostfan]

The biggest threat to humanity is humanity. This may sound cliche but something like 99% of species that have ever existed on this planet have gone extinct and one day humans will be gone too unless we figure out a smarter way to live here. Yes, we can f*** it up for ourselves and it wouldn't be that hard to do it either.

 

And even if someone thinks all of this is bulls***, we are eventually going to run out of oil, so going single-mindedly after drilling domestically as if it's going to fix things by itself doesn't make any sense. Nobody is going to take it seriously either as long as they're getting their fix (i.e. as long as they get cheap oil).

Edited August 6, 2008 by lostfan

[southsider2k5]

The biggest threat to humanity is humanity. This may sound cliche but something like 99% of species that have ever existed on this planet have gone extinct and one day humans will be gone too unless we figure out a smarter way to live here. Yes, we can f*** it up for ourselves and it wouldn't be that hard to do it either.

 

And even if someone thinks all of this is bulls***, we are eventually going to run out of oil, so going single-mindedly after drilling domestically as if it's going to fix things by itself doesn't make any sense. Nobody is going to take it seriously either as long as they're getting their fix (i.e. as long as they get cheap oil).

 

It is cliche when you go back and look throughout the planetary history of dieoffs. They are fairly common.

[lostfan]

It is cliche when you go back and look throughout the planetary history of dieoffs. They are fairly common.

Huh?

 

That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if we aren't careful, our way of living may eventually make the planet uninhabitable, etc. And I'm not talking about global warming, I'm talking about simple things like running out of arable land and so on.

[Balta1701]

lol, I love this... It's pretty much man vs. nature, and people are actually rooting for the nature. I mean, I don't want to f*** up the environment, but to say that drilling for oil or going into the rockies and extracting shale oil is going to mess up the planet is silly. You are acting like as oil is some evil element, but when it is indeed a natural product that this planet produces.

 

So, um Balta, why is it okay for other countries to drill for oil, but not us?

Going to the rockies and mining oil shale will dramatically mess up the planet, because you're going to need a crap load of water to pull that off, and the only source of water for that is the colorado river. Which means you're basically going to close down Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Diego, and pretty much everything in Utah, Arizona, and western Colorado, so as soon as you find room for anther what, 40-50 million people, let me know. Not to mention the CO2.

 

What does it matter at all if it's a natural product that is produced by geologic processes? Geologic processes can produce a hell of a lot of harmful things. Concentrated toxins. Radioactivity. Hell, the planet once produced a natural nuclear reactor in the ground about 3 billion years ago. Would you walk in to a nuclear reactor on the grounds that the planet produced one and so therefore it's safe?

 

The reason these OCS areas were blocked off was because it's a relatively small amount of oil in areas that risk fairly severe environmental and consequently economic damage. Oil spills around florida aren't great for tourism. Ditto Los Angeles.

Also, I have another question for you, do you actually believe in the farce called global warming

Even in the Republican thread, this is not worthy of dignifying with a response.

[lostfan]

Earthquakes and hurricanes are natural, nothing to be afraid of. Cyanide is also produced naturally.

 

edit: normally I'm not a snarky poster but I couldn't resist

Edited August 6, 2008 by lostfan

[BearSox]

The biggest threat to humanity is humanity. This may sound cliche but something like 99% of species that have ever existed on this planet have gone extinct and one day humans will be gone too unless we figure out a smarter way to live here. Yes, we can f*** it up for ourselves and it wouldn't be that hard to do it either.

 

And even if someone thinks all of this is bulls***, we are eventually going to run out of oil, so going single-mindedly after drilling domestically as if it's going to fix things by itself doesn't make any sense. Nobody is going to take it seriously either as long as they're getting their fix (i.e. as long as they get cheap oil).

now that is simply bulls***. The earth makes oil and it's not going to stop one day because it feels like it. Now, we might use a lot of it up and the supply will be low, but I f***ing guarantee you that there would still be oil in the earth. It is crazy stupid to think that one day there will be no oil.

 

We need to work on finding an alternative to oil, but a true alternative to oil is probably at least 100 years away, and that's if we're lucky. In fact, odds are there is probably no replacement for oil. Oil isn't just used for gas and cars. Oil is used in the production of plastic, cosmetics, computers. Pretty much everything we use today is made from oil.

[Balta1701]

now that is simply bulls***. The earth makes oil and it's not going to stop one day because it feels like it. Now, we might use a lot of it up and the supply will be low, but I f***ing guarantee you that there would still be oil in the earth. It is crazy stupid to think that one day there will be no oil.

 

We need to work on finding an alternative to oil, but a true alternative to oil is probably at least 100 years away, and that's if we're lucky. In fact, odds are there is probably no replacement for oil. Oil isn't just used for gas and cars. Oil is used in the production of plastic, cosmetics, computers. Pretty much everything we use today is made from oil.

Well, unfortunately, if the alternative for oil is 100 years away, we better start planning on figuring out how to plant crops. Because by then, oil production is going to be down dramatically from where it is right now.

[BearSox]

Balta, just wondering, but do you honestly believe that there will be an alternative for oil in your lifetime?

[lostfan]

now that is simply bulls***. The earth makes oil and it's not going to stop one day because it feels like it. Now, we might use a lot of it up and the supply will be low, but I f***ing guarantee you that there would still be oil in the earth. It is crazy stupid to think that one day there will be no oil.

 

We need to work on finding an alternative to oil, but a true alternative to oil is probably at least 100 years away, and that's if we're lucky. In fact, odds are there is probably no replacement for oil. Oil isn't just used for gas and cars. Oil is used in the production of plastic, cosmetics, computers. Pretty much everything we use today is made from oil.

 

Do you know how long it takes for the earth to make oil? If it could make oil fast, there wouldn't even be much to talk about. This is something you should have learned in the 4th grade.

[Balta1701]

Balta, just wondering, but do you honestly believe that there will be an alternative for oil in your lifetime?

I think one of 3 things will happen. Either I won't make it that many more years, there will be an alternative for oil in my lifetime, or 3-4 billion people are going to be at risk for starving to death.

 

If oil production were to pass through the peak that people have been expecting/say is currently happening, and start dropping off at a 5-10% a year clip...then if we don't have some other ability to drive transportation and provide energy for generating things like fertilizers, plastics, etc., then a lot of people are going to die because without energy, producing enough food is going to be impossible.

[BigSqwert]

now that is simply bulls***. The earth makes oil and it's not going to stop one day because it feels like it.

LOL

 

See lostfan's sig for the best response I could think of.

[BearSox]

 

Do you know how long it takes for the earth to make oil? If it could make oil fast, there wouldn't even be much to talk about. This is something you should have learned in the 4th grade.

Did I say the earth makes oil fast? No, but to say we are going to run out of it is ridiculous. There is oil forming somwhere in our earth right now, and one day that oil can be used. THIS PLANET WILL ALWAYS HAVE OIL!

[Balta1701]

 

Do you know how long it takes for the earth to make oil? If it could make oil fast, there wouldn't even be much to talk about. This is something you should have learned in the 4th grade.

Actually, technically I will agree with him here. There is continual generation of oil happening on earth. There are a few fields where they limit the rate that they're pumping it, so that as its being generated, it's keeping the volume of the field fairly constant. But the amount being generated is dramatically less than what we use in a normal day.

[BigSqwert]

Did I say the earth makes oil fast? No, but to say we are going to run out of it is ridiculous. There is oil forming somwhere in our earth right now, and one day that oil can be used. THIS PLANET WILL ALWAYS HAVE OIL!

That post is seriously laughable. Do a little more research before throwing out supposed factoids.

[lostfan]

Actually, technically I will agree with him here. There is continual generation of oil happening on earth. There are a few fields where they limit the rate that they're pumping it, so that as its being generated, it's keeping the volume of the field fairly constant. But the amount being generated is dramatically less than what we use in a normal day.

If you're talking about the seeping upwards of oil from super-deep reserves, that's something else, but the process of actually forming oil takes like a million years. So yeah technically oil is "renewable" but not in any practical way.

[Balta1701]

If you're talking about the seeping upwards of oil from super-deep reserves, that's something else, but the process of actually forming oil takes like a million years. So yeah technically oil is "renewable" but not in any practical way.

Remember, you're actually talking to a geologist here. The full process of generating oil takes literally tens of millions of years, because you have to start off with carbon rich sediment, compact it, bury it, de-water it, and move it down deep enough that it starts giving off oil.

 

But, once the sediment (we call it kerogen) reaches the temperature and pressure conditions that it starts to give off hydrocarbons, it doesn't do so in one big burp...it releases it in small amounts in a continuous process. The oil that is generated will usually flow out through the rocks after generation and if it happens to find somewhere where it can pool, it does so and we wind up with a good, usable oil source. There are rocks right now that are generating small amounts of oil and that oil is migrating upwards to current reservoirs. The amount of oil being generated today from rocks that were buried a couple million years ago is non-zero. But it's no where near what we're burning during a day. So we're not talking about movement up from super-deep reservoirs or anything...actual generation is happening right now.

 

But, the only reason why we're able to have a petroleum based economy like we do is that several hundred million years of daily production has pooled in certain geologically favorable areas, like the areas overlying the former Tethys seaway.

[NorthSideSox72]

Did I say the earth makes oil fast? No, but to say we are going to run out of it is ridiculous. There is oil forming somwhere in our earth right now, and one day that oil can be used. THIS PLANET WILL ALWAYS HAVE OIL!

This is stunning.

 

Do you know how oil is "made"? Do you know how much biomass it takes, and how long it takes for it to become oil? And do you actually, honestly think that amount even remotely rivals the billions of barrels of oil we use every day?

 

No wonder you want to drill. You are the only person I have ever heard who actually thinks that oil is a renewable resource.

 

And WTF is with this 100 years stuff? We have all sorts of alternatives, RIGHT NOW! Just like you can drill right now, you can also do wind, solar, geo, hyrdo and other stuff right now. 100 years? Where are you getting this stuff?

 

 

[BearSox]

That post is seriously laughable. Do a little more research before throwing out supposed factoids.

so, are you saying the earth didn't produce oil and instead is just showed up? This planet will always have oil, I guarantee you that. However, as the population of the world goes, so will the demand, and the supply will go down.

 

For now, oil is our best friend. However, we do need to invest more resources into finding an alternative for oil. I know it might sound crazy coming from me, but I want an alternative as much as anyone else. It's just that looking at this thing realistically, that alternative probably won't be around for a long, long, long time. So inbetween now and when we finally find that alternative, man will be an oil-dependent race.

Edited August 6, 2008 by BearSox

[BigSqwert]

so, are you saying the earth didn't produce oil and instead is just showed up? This planet will always have oil, I guarantee you that. However, as the population of the world goes, so will the demand, and the supply will go down.

It took millions of years to produce the oil that we will use up in a span of about 200 years. Will you wait around a few more million years for the next batch?

[NorthSideSox72]

so, are you saying the earth didn't produce oil and instead is just showed up? This planet will always have oil, I guarantee you that. However, as the population of the world goes, so will the demand, and the supply will go down.

 

For now, oil is our best friend. However, we do need to invest more resources into finding an alternative for oil. I know it might sound crazy coming from me, but I want an alternative as much as anyone else. It's just that looking at this thing realistically, that alternative probably won't be around for a long, long, long time. So inbetween now and when we finally find that alternative, man will be an oil-dependent race.

Find it? We already found a bunch of them! All kinds of them. Have you not heard of wind turbines? Solar cells?

 

[lostfan]

Remember, you're actually talking to a geologist here. The full process of generating oil takes literally tens of millions of years, because you have to start off with carbon rich sediment, compact it, bury it, de-water it, and move it down deep enough that it starts giving off oil.

 

But, once the sediment (we call it kerogen) reaches the temperature and pressure conditions that it starts to give off hydrocarbons, it doesn't do so in one big burp...it releases it in small amounts in a continuous process. The oil that is generated will usually flow out through the rocks after generation and if it happens to find somewhere where it can pool, it does so and we wind up with a good, usable oil source. There are rocks right now that are generating small amounts of oil and that oil is migrating upwards to current reservoirs. The amount of oil being generated today from rocks that were buried a couple million years ago is non-zero. But it's no where near what we're burning during a day. So we're not talking about movement up from super-deep reservoirs or anything...actual generation is happening right now.

 

But, the only reason why we're able to have a petroleum based economy like we do is that several hundred million years of daily production has pooled in certain geologically favorable areas, like the areas overlying the former Tethys seaway.

That bolded part made me laugh.

 

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that based off the premise of the original post, it's safe to assume that BearSox was not talking about all that and that it's still laughable. If we were to use up all the oil that can be drilled, right now, the global economy is shot to s*** for a few million more years.

[BearSox]

This is stunning.

 

Do you know how oil is "made"? Do you know how much biomass it takes, and how long it takes for it to become oil? And do you actually, honestly think that amount even remotely rivals the billions of barrels of oil we use every day?

 

No wonder you want to drill. You are the only person I have ever heard who actually thinks that oil is a renewable resource.

 

And WTF is with this 100 years stuff? We have all sorts of alternatives, RIGHT NOW! Just like you can drill right now, you can also do wind, solar, geo, hyrdo and other stuff right now. 100 years? Where are you getting this stuff?

none of that stuff can do what oil does for us. Oil is used in practically everything today.

[lostfan]

so, are you saying the earth didn't produce oil and instead is just showed up?

I suggest you go read a book, or hell, just go type "petroleum" into Google. There isn't much else I can say that's not sarcastic or snarky at this point.

[NorthSideSox72]

none of that stuff can do what oil does for us. Oil is used in practically everything today.

what makes you think that? All of those can create electricity. Electricity can run homes, businesses, cars, trains, machinery, and most things that we currently need energy for. That's the great majority of our oil use (though, admitedly, not 100%).

 

I just... I'm stunned.