The Republican Thread

[Texsox]

I still think speeders should be ticketed and fined. And still believe a camera system in work zones are a good thing. I'd suggest not loaning your car to someone who won't do the right thing if they are caught speeding. I think your governor sucks and should not be allowed to create new organizations, especially law enforcement ones. That's scary. Most Texans keep firearms locked in cases, and doubt Texas would enact a law that requires them to be in seat belts, but some people lay awake thinking about strange stuff. Feel free to laugh if that happens, I will too. We happen to have a governor in Texas that isn't corrupt.

[Texsox]

How many times have I said its not about speeding and that Im not worried about it because I care about the actual ticket.

 

Means

 

He is concerned about the potential margin for error which he sees as avoidable and also the fact that the real motivation for it is a revenue stream for Blagojevich, and not about actual public safety (similar to DC's red light camera system which is an absolute mess)

 

Or something like that... he's said it several times now

Got it.

 

So if the revenue streams went to something other then this Blagojevich program, you'd be ok with it?

[lostfan]

I still think speeders should be ticketed and fined. And still believe a camera system in work zones are a good thing. I'd suggest not loaning your car to someone who won't do the right thing if they are caught speeding. I think your governor sucks and should not be allowed to create new organizations, especially law enforcement ones. That's scary. Most Texans keep firearms locked in cases, and doubt Texas would enact a law that requires them to be in seat belts, but some people lay awake thinking about strange stuff. Feel free to laugh if that happens, I will too. We happen to have a governor in Texas that isn't corrupt.

Generally speaking, this is sound advice, but doing so enables the use of a crystal ball.

[lostfan]

Means

 

 

Got it.

 

So if the revenue streams went to something other then this Blagojevich program, you'd be ok with it?

He's not articulating what he meant very well in that sentence and could have used better phrasing but it's not hard for me to infer what he was trying to say since I've read all the rest of his posts.

 

Personally I'm not particularly worried about revenue, if it goes to something worthwhile like the CTA which is perfectly logical. The margin for error is a bigger deal IMO. The experience of driving in DC taught me that (get trapped in an intersection by other s***ty drivers and the general poor layout of city streets, and have the camera take a picture of you and it looks like you blew a red light and there is no way you can honestly contest it because of the bureaucratic red tape). Or having to make up hours out of my workday to go to court because of something somebody else did to get them to pay for it, etc. (I think it's a legit concern since you can't predict what other people do and the only option is to never let anyone drive your car which isn't really reasonable). I see no problem with cracking down on speeding even if it means I might get caught but frankly, I trust the judgment of a cop to do it more than I trust a camera.

[Texsox]

DB here is the problem, there are three separate issues here.

 

Issue 1: Enforcing Speed Laws. I say yes. Don't want to pay a fine? Do not speed.

 

Issue 2: Camera Systems. In specific areas, (work zone) for specific reasons, (existing speeding problem) I am in favor. All the arguments you bring up are the same ones that were brought up regarding radar.

 

Issue 3: Your corrupt governor's new programs. I only recently made a statement, and I do not think it is a good idea. I really dislike the sound of special police force. Even with a honest governor.

 

But to take part three and use it to say part 1 or 2 is wrong, uses faulty logic. Each should be debated on it's own merits.

[Texsox]

Generally speaking, this is sound advice, but doing so enables the use of a crystal ball.

 

Do you really know someone you would trust your car to, but not trust them to admit if they got caught speeding? You would have their picture in front of you, at least according to the news report I saw. Honestly, I can not think of someone I would loan my car to that would stick me with a ticket when it has the date and time plus their picture.

 

And honestly, we do not contest radar anymore, but that was hotly debated as well.

[lostfan]

Do you really know someone you would trust your car to, but not trust them to admit if they got caught speeding? You would have their picture in front of you, at least according to the news report I saw. Honestly, I can not think of someone I would loan my car to that would stick me with a ticket when it has the date and time plus their picture.

 

And honestly, we do not contest radar anymore, but that was hotly debated as well.

I wouldn't name one specific friend who would leave me out to dry like that since I would hope I knew them all better than that, but I have been shafted by my friends before.

[DrunkBomber]

DB here is the problem, there are three seperate issues here.

 

Issue 1: Enforcing Speed Laws. I say yes. Don't want to pay a fine? Do not speed.

 

Issue 2: Camera Systems. In specific areas, (work zone) for specific reasons, (existing speeding problem) I am in favor. All the arguments you bring up are the same ones that were brought up regarding radar.

 

Issue 3: Your corrupt governor's new programs. I only recently made a statement, and I do not think it is a good idea. I really dislike the sound of special police force. Even with a honest governor.

 

But to take part three and use it to say part 1 or 2 is wrong, uses faulty logic. Each should be debated on it's own merits.

1 I agree with you 100% on. Like I tried to say, I dont go around speeding so Im not concerned about the repercussions. I never said I disagree with speeding laws.

 

2 This is a big problem for me because of the potential flaws. I tie this to point number 3 because I dont think any other governor, anywhere for that matter, would ever propose this. As Lostfan reiterated, I think its being proposed to give Blago more money to play with instead of for public safety and Ive had enough of Blago where this really upsets me.

 

The question about if the proposal came from someone other than Blago would I not have a problem with it is interesting. I think i can some it up by saying, I would never like the system and he is just the icing on the cake.

 

[DrunkBomber]

I wouldn't name one specific friend who would leave me out to dry like that since I would hope I knew them all better than that, but I have been shafted by my friends before.

There also could be circumstances where they didnt even know they got a ticket. If they are ticketing for going 10 over, a lot of people will try to go right around there and could accidentally go 11 over or just might not pay attention for a second and get ticketed. I think anytime a ticket is issued there should be a human writing it just because of all the different circumstances that could arise. What it someones pregnant or something like that.

[Texsox]

1 I agree with you 100% on. Like I tried to say, I dont go around speeding so Im not concerned about the repercussions. I never said I disagree with speeding laws.

 

2 This is a big problem for me because of the potential flaws. I tie this to point number 3 because I dont think any other governor, anywhere for that matter, would ever propose this. As Lostfan reiterated, I think its being proposed to give Blago more money to play with instead of for public safety and Ive had enough of Blago where this really upsets me.

 

The question about if the proposal came from someone other than Blago would I not have a problem with it is interesting. I think i can some it up by saying, I would never like the system and he is just the icing on the cake.

 

#2. There are potential problems with all law enforcement. You have a corrupt governor, it would stand to reason you also have corrupt cops. I'd trust a mechanical system before cops in a state with such corruption. The system will catch speeders who will pay fines. Some people will be inconvenienced, much like people have been inconvenienced in court all the time, from something minor like someone getting a parking ticket when someone borrowed their car, to something major like OJ having to go to court and prove he didn't kill Nicole or Ron. Speeding, to me, would fall way down the minor scale. Remember, money only flows in when people speed. Unless you believe thousands of tickets will be fraudulently issued.

 

But by tying it to #3 it would seem to suggest that enforcing the law should only happen if the fines went to a good project. That we shouldn't be worried about enforcing speed laws if the money goes to a corrupt governor's special program. I believe the fines should still be enforced, and collected, and that the corrupt governors special program should be stopped.

 

And I believe plenty of other locals and states will be using camera systems. They will get better with time. It frees up cops to work on important crimes.

[Texsox]

There also could be circumstances where they didnt even know they got a ticket. If they are ticketing for going 10 over, a lot of people will try to go right around there and could accidentally go 11 over or just might not pay attention for a second and get ticketed. I think anytime a ticket is issued there should be a human writing it just because of all the different circumstances that could arise. What it someones pregnant or something like that.

 

Ten over is still speeding, it isn't a new speed limit. By having a ten mile per hour margin of error, it would reduce the number of wrong tickets. One solution to help ease the inconvienence of wrong tickets is to provide that margin of error. The state is giving you 10. If the driver decides to take all ten, then sorry, they deserve a ticket for eleven over. If they drive the limit, they do not have to worry about even a five or six mile an hour increase.

[Texsox]

BTW DB Wouldn't it be hilarious if over Christmas I get caught by one of thsoe cameras and be 1,500 miles away in Texas when I get the ticket

That would prove karma is a b****

 

I truly hope you weren't really upset over this. Nothing like an occassional dust up to keep the typing fingers flying.

[DrunkBomber]

BTW DB Wouldn't it be hilarious if over Christmas I get caught by one of thsoe cameras and be 1,500 miles away in Texas when I get the ticket

That would prove karma is a b****

 

I truly hope you weren't really upset over this. Nothing like an occassional dust up to keep the typing fingers flying.

Not after everything was cleared up. Im glad lostfan mediated a little because we werent seeing eye to eye on my stance. Now that we are we can go back to disagreeing on it.

 

The whole camera thing to me is going too far. Im not trying to justify violating crimes but I just think that if they are victimless crimes than its a waste of time to go this far trying to enforce them. If they were that concerned about the well being of people than they would do things like have the metra run between the suburbs and the city 24 hours on weekends to prevent dui crashes. This is just a way for Blago to raise money for whatever bs hes into now.

[lostfan]

Not after everything was cleared up. Im glad lostfan mediated a little because we werent seeing eye to eye on my stance. Now that we are we can go back to disagreeing on it.

 

The whole camera thing to me is going too far. Im not trying to justify violating crimes but I just think that if they are victimless crimes than its a waste of time to go this far trying to enforce them. If they were that concerned about the well being of people than they would do things like have the metra run between the suburbs and the city 24 hours on weekends to prevent dui crashes. This is just a way for Blago to raise money for whatever bs hes into now.

:

[Texsox]

Not after everything was cleared up. Im glad lostfan mediated a little because we werent seeing eye to eye on my stance. Now that we are we can go back to disagreeing on it.

 

The whole camera thing to me is going too far. Im not trying to justify violating crimes but I just think that if they are victimless crimes than its a waste of time to go this far trying to enforce them. If they were that concerned about the well being of people than they would do things like have the metra run between the suburbs and the city 24 hours on weekends to prevent dui crashes. This is just a way for Blago to raise money for whatever bs hes into now.

 

Before we get too far off subject, are you saying that speeding is a victimless crime?

That humans working around the clock isn't too far, but a $45,000 machine is too far?

[DrunkBomber]

Before we get too far off subject, are you saying that speeding is a victimless crime?

That humans working around the clock isn't too far, but a $45,000 machine is too far?

Speeding is very circumstantial. It can be a victimless crime, but it can also cause an accident. If theres no traffic around and you go 10 over, than yes its a victimless crime, IMO. If you hit someone, then no, it isnt.

 

Running the metra doesnt mean people are working 24 hours a day. They have shifts. The El runs 24 hours a day. Drunk driving kills a lot of people, if they are so concerned about the well being of people, why not run the train a few times after midnight on weekends so people in the suburbs dont drive drunk. IMO, they dont because of the revenue they get from the arrests.

 

Im honestly fed up with a lot of the politics in the whole country at this point and I think a lot of changes need to be made. I dont like when people like Blago/Pelosi or whomever tell me I need to do this, and then they go and do that. I think our elected officials need to be held to the same standards as the people who vote for them. Without justifying ANY crimes and saying theyre ok, which Im not doing, I just dont like the idea of cameras governing things. There are a lot bigger problems that should be given attention than speeding.

 

Basically, Im looking for a Utopian system of government, where people in a position of power and authority are responsible for their actions, and where if they commit crimes, they are held to the same standards the citizens are. I think cops should all have those dashboard cameras and be miked up at all times while they are on duty. Id like to know where every penny of a governors budget is allocated. Id like the opportunity to ask "Whats going on?" when theres something I dont understand or agree with and get an answer. I know it will never happen, I just think things like cameras enforcing crimes is going to make everything worse than better.

[EvilMonkey]

Ok, you two, there IS actually a seperate post for speeding, you know. On to Republican things. I am suprised no one has staretd a thread about the get together with Rick Warren. Here is a little clip where Obama is asked with of the Supremes he wouldn't have nominated. He picked Clarance Thomas, and starts to explain why. notice where he cathes himself mid-word as he almost says that Thomas wasn't an experienced enough jurist. And go ahead Obamatrons, try and spin that, but you KNOW that is what he was about to say. Maybe he realized that that would be the height of hypocracy for him to criticize anyone for being inexperienced enough for the job.

 

[Texsox]

Speeding is very circumstantial. It can be a victimless crime, but it can also cause an accident. If theres no traffic around and you go 10 over, than yes its a victimless crime, IMO. If you hit someone, then no, it isnt.

 

Running the metra doesnt mean people are working 24 hours a day. They have shifts. The El runs 24 hours a day. Drunk driving kills a lot of people, if they are so concerned about the well being of people, why not run the train a few times after midnight on weekends so people in the suburbs dont drive drunk. IMO, they dont because of the revenue they get from the arrests.

 

Im honestly fed up with a lot of the politics in the whole country at this point and I think a lot of changes need to be made. I dont like when people like Blago/Pelosi or whomever tell me I need to do this, and then they go and do that. I think our elected officials need to be held to the same standards as the people who vote for them. Without justifying ANY crimes and saying theyre ok, which Im not doing, I just dont like the idea of cameras governing things. There are a lot bigger problems that should be given attention than speeding.

 

Basically, Im looking for a Utopian system of government, where people in a position of power and authority are responsible for their actions, and where if they commit crimes, they are held to the same standards the citizens are. I think cops should all have those dashboard cameras and be miked up at all times while they are on duty. Id like to know where every penny of a governors budget is allocated. Id like the opportunity to ask "Whats going on?" when theres something I dont understand or agree with and get an answer. I know it will never happen, I just think things like cameras enforcing crimes is going to make everything worse than better.

 

What I was wondering is having humans 24/7 enforcing speeds versus a $45,000 van. It sounds like you are saying the van is going to far.

[Texsox]

Ok, you two, there IS actually a seperate post for speeding, you know. On to Republican things. I am suprised no one has staretd a thread about the get together with Rick Warren. Here is a little clip where Obama is asked with of the Supremes he wouldn't have nominated. He picked Clarance Thomas, and starts to explain why. notice where he cathes himself mid-word as he almost says that Thomas wasn't an experienced enough jurist. And go ahead Obamatrons, try and spin that, but you KNOW that is what he was about to say. Maybe he realized that that would be the height of hypocracy for him to criticize anyone for being inexperienced enough for the job.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfblJvKXiP0&c...;hl=en&fs=1

 

OMG!! You are so right.

[EvilMonkey]

Another Obama quote at Saddleback (can't get the video to link or embed)

 

"You know a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil."

So according to the Messiah, we are eeeeevilllllll!

 

 

[Texsox]

Another Obama quote at Saddleback (can't get the video to link or embed)

 

"You know a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil."

So according to the Messiah, we are eeeeevilllllll!

 

obviously desperate. It is a very warped scale to think of anything the US has ever done as evil.

[lostfan]

obviously desperate. It is a very warped scale to think of anything the US has ever done as evil.

Was this one of those "too obvious to need green" statments?

[EvilMonkey]

obviously desperate. It is a very warped scale to think of anything the US has ever done as evil.

Well, when that is one of the top 3 things you think of when asked what is evil, it does seem pretty warped.

 

 

[Texsox]

Well, when that is one of the top 3 things you think of when asked what is evil, it does seem pretty warped.

Evil to me would be genocide, like in Rwanda or Hitler

Human experiments

Torture like Saddam

stuff like that. I'm not certain what kind of definition he would be doing to judge something the US has done as evil. Perhaps giving billions in aid around the world? Sending our troops, at our expense, around the globe? Calling the US evil is just asinine.

[lostfan]

Evil to me would be genocide, like in Rwanda or Hitler

Human experiments

Torture like Saddam

stuff like that. I'm not certain what kind of definition he would be doing to judge something the US has done as evil. Perhaps giving billions in aid around the world? Sending our troops, at our expense, around the globe? Calling the US evil is just asinine.

We have made mistakes (handling of Guantanamo etc.), and we have had some bad apples (Abu Gharib). We - well most of us anyway - have been trying to hold ourselves accountable, too. You know we have. I don't know why you're glossing over it. Some of the stuff we have done is the proverbial turd in the punch bowl.

 

It's a distortion of what he said to say that he's calling the US evil. In the same answer he was talking about people who abuse their children and so on, and he said we need to confront that, too. Nowhere did he say anything resembling "the United States is evil."

 

I haven't even gone back past this decade either to point out mistakes, btw.

Edited August 18, 2008 by lostfan