The Republican Thread

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Didn't know where to put this, but there's a potentially interesting situation going on in South Korea right now. Apparently one of their ships is sinking near the NK/SK border and they are investigating whether it could have been torpedoed.

[StrangeSox]

Didn't know where to put this, but there's a potentially interesting situation going on in South Korea right now. Apparently one of their ships is sinking near the NK/SK border and they are investigating whether it could have been torpedoed.

 

Maybe a fillibuster non-partisan "catch-all" thread would be good for stuff like this? Could always be split out if it develops into something bigger.

 

The Joint Chiefs told the Herald newspaper that the ship had fired warning shots toward the North after its radar detected a suspicious object, but this was later found to be a flock of birds.

 

[mr_genius]

Maybe a fillibuster non-partisan "catch-all" thread would be good for stuff like this?

 

i think that was tried a while back. turned partisan after like 4 posts.

[Balta1701]

i think that was tried a while back. turned partisan after like 4 posts.

And it was all the Republicans fault!

[Y2HH]

And it was all the Republicans fault!

 

Personally, I blame Tex.

[lostfan]

I'd pretty much agree with that. They just had so much of their own misery in the 90's and early 2000's that they couldn't stay focused on the evil U.S. Now they have a growing economy, and can actually pay to keep up their military.

Growing economy? Russia's economy sucks and is headed for decline in the near/mid-future. America is in decline, relative to China, India, and Brazil, but compared to Europe and Russia we are in much better shape.

 

Also I think you and Y2HH earlier were oversimplifying Russia. Russian leadership (specifically Putin) wants a "strong Russia" but not necessarily confrontation with the United States. No, they don't really trust us, but why would they? It's not like we trust them either. To us, or at least some of us, Russia getting stronger does look confrontational or threatening, but it's not like Putin literally wants the Soviet Union back, in fact he has that famous quote "he who does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart, he who wants it back has no brain."

 

What this means for us is that Russia is a strategic competitor just like any other country in the world, and it's just basic international relations where countries get a leg up on each other. It means we have to figure out how to work with around Russia, be wary of them, and sometimes look around their waist to see if they're holding a knife behind their back, but it's not like we need to be expecting war to break out just because Russia is strong and influential again. What benefit is there to them to provoke a direct military confrontation? It'd hurt them just as much as us, physically and strategically.

[lostfan]

And that's another reason why I hate capitalism. It's all about the short term.

As opposed to what? Curious.

 

In their pure forms, I don't think any economic system is sustainable for more than a couple of decades/economic cycles but I fail to see how there is anything better than "capitalism" as we understand it.

[BigSqwert]

As opposed to what? Curious.

 

In their pure forms, I don't think any economic system is sustainable for more than a couple of decades/economic cycles but I fail to see how there is anything better than "capitalism" as we understand it.

I'm an ultra left wing progressive so I'd even prefer an anarchist society and economy. But there's so many subdivisions of that theory that I'm not sure which specific iteration I'd endorse.

[lostfan]

I'm an ultra left wing progressive so I'd even prefer an anarchist society and economy. But there's so many subdivisions of that theory that I'm not sure which specific iteration I'd endorse.

That sounds pretty much like pure capitalism actually

[NorthSideSox72]

Growing economy? Russia's economy sucks and is headed for decline in the near/mid-future. America is in decline, relative to China, India, and Brazil, but compared to Europe and Russia we are in much better shape.

 

Also I think you and Y2HH earlier were oversimplifying Russia. Russian leadership (specifically Putin) wants a "strong Russia" but not necessarily confrontation with the United States. No, they don't really trust us, but why would they? It's not like we trust them either. To us, or at least some of us, Russia getting stronger does look confrontational or threatening, but it's not like Putin literally wants the Soviet Union back, in fact he has that famous quote "he who does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart, he who wants it back has no brain."

 

What this means for us is that Russia is a strategic competitor just like any other country in the world, and it's just basic international relations where countries get a leg up on each other. It means we have to figure out how to work with around Russia, be wary of them, and sometimes look around their waist to see if they're holding a knife behind their back, but it's not like we need to be expecting war to break out just because Russia is strong and influential again. What benefit is there to them to provoke a direct military confrontation? It'd hurt them just as much as us, physically and strategically.

Eh?

 

First, I wasn't talking this year's economy, when the whole world is basically in the s***ter. I'm saying that in the past decade, they've grown a lot, and long term look to continue to do so.

 

Second, I completely agree with you that they don't want a real confrontation with the US. I never said otherwise. Not sure where you are getting that.

 

[lostfan]

Eh?

 

First, I wasn't talking this year's economy, when the whole world is basically in the s***ter. I'm saying that in the past decade, they've grown a lot, and long term look to continue to do so.

 

Second, I completely agree with you that they don't want a real confrontation with the US. I never said otherwise. Not sure where you are getting that.

Most of that was just a long segue into me showing off that I know something about something.

[southsider2k5]

So what do you do when you get death threats? You use it to get money!

 

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shep...y-death-threats

 

JAKE TAPPER, HOST: In the wake of the healthcare reform legislation, there have been threats of violence and some acts of violence against members of Congress. And in this fundraising solicitation I want to ask you about, this is from the President's political arm Organizing for America, used to be Obama for America, Mitch Stewart the director writes in this fundraising solicitation: "A conservative blogger posted the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello urging tea partiers to ‘drop by'. Other members have had death threats. Democratic offices have been vandalized. Please chip in $5 or more to defend health reform and those in Congress who fought to make it possible." Obviously those threats and the acts of violence should be condemned. They're not appropriate. But is it appropriate for Democrats to try to raise money off of those threats?

 

VALERIE JARRETT, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Look, let's go back to the threats for a second. I think what's great about our country is we're able to have an open and free debate about issues and ideas, and then once a decision is made, we always come together and move forward. And what the President is interested in doing is moving forward. This is a major accomplishment.

 

TAPPER: Right, but what about the trying to raise money off of the threats? Is that appropriate?

 

JARRETT: I can't comment on what the political arms are doing.

 

 

Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shep...s#ixzz0jUtwU8SX

[NorthSideSox72]

Most of that was just a long segue into me showing off that I know something about something.

[Cknolls]

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...eric-cantor.php

 

 

MSM will be all over it tonight, make sure you tune in.

[Heads22]

Was considering going to see Mitt speak at ISU today but couldn't fit him into my schedule. Would have been interesting.

[southsider2k5]

Was considering going to see Mitt speak at ISU today but couldn't fit him into my schedule. Would have been interesting.

 

It would be interesting to see how he worked a room.

[southsider2k5]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/pos...DA3NmQyNmIxYmI=

 

A Long Post: The Complete List of Obama Statement Expiration Dates

 

By popular demand, a comprehensive list of expired Obama statements...

 

HEALTH CARE MANDATES

 

STATEMENT: “We've got a philosophical difference, which we've debated repeatedly, and that is that Senator Clinton believes the only way to achieve universal health care is to force everybody to purchase it. And my belief is, the reason that people don't have it is not because they don't want it but because they can't afford it.” Barack Obama, speaking at a Democratic presidential debate, February 21, 2008.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: On March 23, 2010, Obama signed the individual mandate into law.

 

HEALTH CARE NEGOTIATIONS ON C-SPAN

 

STATEMENT: “These negotiations will be on C-SPAN, and so the public will be part of the conversation and will see the decisions that are being made.” January 20, 2008, and seven other times.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: Throughout the summer, fall, and winter of 2009 and 2010; when John McCain asked about it during the health care summit February 26, Obama dismissed the issue by declaring, “the campaign is over, John.”

 

RAISING TAXES

 

STATEMENT: “No family making less than $250,000 will see any form of tax increase.” (multiple times on the campaign trail)

 

EXPIRATION DATE: Broken multiple times, including the raised taxes on tobacco, a new tax on indoor tanning salons, but most prominently on February 11, 2010: “President Barack Obama said he is “agnostic” about raising taxes on households making less than $250,000 as part of a broad effort to rein in the budget deficit.”

 

RECESS APPOINTMENTS

 

STATEMENT: Then-Senator Obama declared that a recess appointment is “damaged goods” and has “less credibility” than a normal appointment. August 25, 2005.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: March 27, 2010: “If, in the interest of scoring political points, Republicans in the Senate refuse to exercise that responsibility, I must act in the interest of the American people and exercise my authority to fill these positions on an interim basis.”

 

BORDER SECURITY

 

STATEMENT: “We need tougher border security, and a renewed focus on busting up gangs and traffickers crossing our border. . . . That begins at home, with comprehensive immigration reform. That means securing our border and passing tough employer enforcement laws.” then-candidate Obama, discussing the need for border security, speaking in Miami on May 23, 2008:

 

EXPIRATION DATE: March 17, 2010: The Obama administration halted new work on a "virtual fence" on the U.S.-Mexican border, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced Tuesday, diverting $50 million in planned economic stimulus funds for the project to other purposes.

 

GUANTANAMO BAY

 

STATEMENT: Executive Order stating, "The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than one year from the date of this order." January 22, 2009.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: November 19, 2009: "Guantánamo, we had a specific deadline that was missed."

 

MILITARY TRIBUNALS

 

STATEMENT: “Somebody like Khalid Sheik Mohammad is gonna get basically, a full military trial with all the bells and whistles.” September 27, 2006

 

EXPIRATION DATE: Ongoing. “President Obama is planning to insert himself into the debate about where to try the accused mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, three administration officials said Thursday, signaling a recognition that the administration had mishandled the process and triggered a political backlash. Obama initially had asked Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. to choose the site of the trial in an effort to maintain an independent Justice Department. But the White House has been taken aback by the intense criticism from political opponents and local officials of Holder's decision to try Khalid Sheik Mohammed in a civilian courtroom in New York.”

 

RECOVERY.GOV

 

STATEMENT: “We will launch a sweeping effort to root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending in our government, and every American will be able to see how and where we spend taxpayer dollars by going to a new website called recovery.gov.” – President Obama, January 28, 2009

 

EXPIRATION DATE: “More than two months after some of the funds were released, [Recovery.gov] offers little detail on where the money is going… The government [spent] $84 million on a website that doesn't have a search function, when its purpose is to ‘root out waste, inefficiency, and unnecessary spending in our government.’” April 2, 2009

 

Eighteen from his first 100 days:

 

1. "As President I will recognize the Armenian Genocide."

 

2. "I will make sure that we renegotiate [NAFTA]."

 

3. Opposed a Colombian Free Trade Agreement because advocates ignore that "labor leaders have been targeted for assassination on a fairly consistent basis."

 

4. "Now, what I’ve done throughout this campaign is to propose a net spending cut."

 

5. "If we see money being misspent, we're going to put a stop to it, and we will call it out and we will publicize it."

 

6. "Yesterday, Jim, the head of Caterpillar, said that if Congress passes our plan, this company will be able to rehire some of the folks who were just laid off."

 

7. "I want to go line by line through every item in the Federal budget and eliminate programs that don't work, and make sure that those that do work work better and cheaper."

 

8. "[My plan] will not help speculators who took risky bets on a rising market and bought homes not to live in but to sell."

 

9. "Instead of allowing lobbyists to slip big corporate tax breaks into bills during the dead of night, we will make sure every single tax break and earmark is available to every American online."

 

10. "We can no longer accept a process that doles out earmarks based on a member of Congress's seniority, rather than the merit of the project."

 

11. "If your family earns less than $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increased a single dime. I repeat: not one single dime."

 

12. "Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe the United States has to be frank with the Chinese about such failings and will press them to respect human rights."

 

13. "We must take out Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants if we have them in our sights."

 

14. "Lobbyists won’t work in my White House!"

 

15. "The real gamble in this election is playing the same Washington game with the same Washington players and expecting a different result."

 

16. "I'll make oil companies like Exxon pay a tax on their windfall profits, and we'll use the money to help families pay for their skyrocketing energy costs and other bills."

 

17. "Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days." Obama is 1-for-11 on this promise so far.

 

18. A special one on the 100th day, "the first thing I'd do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'd do."

 

And a list from of promises that expired during the campaign:

 

Monday, November 03, 2008

 

IRAQ

 

STATEMENT: “Based on the conversations we’ve had internally as well as external reports, we believe that you can get one to two brigades out a month. At that pace, the forces would be out in approximately 16 months from the time that we began. That would be the time frame that I would be setting up,” Obama to the New York Times, November 1, 2007

 

EXPIRATION DATE: March 7, 2008: Obama foreign policy adviser Samantha Power, to the BBC: “You can’t make a commitment in whatever month we’re in now, in March of 2008 about what circumstances are gonna be like in Jan. 2009. We can’t even tell what Bush is up to in terms of troop pauses and so forth. He will of course not rely upon some plan that he’s crafted as a presidential candidate or as a US senator.”

 

Also: July 3, 2008: "My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything I've said, was always premised on making sure our troops were safe," Obama told reporters as his campaign plane landed in North Dakota. "And my guiding approach continues to be that we've got to make sure that our troops are safe, and that Iraq is stable. And I'm going to continue to gather information to find out whether those conditions still hold."

 

STATEMENT: On June 14, Obama foreign policy adviser Susan Rice called the RNC’s argument that Obama needed to go to Iraq to get a firsthand look "complete garbage."

 

EXPIRATION DATE: On June 16, Obama announced he would go to Iraq and Afghanistan “so he can see first hand the progress of the wars he would inherit if he's elected president.”

 

DEBATES

 

STATEMENT: May 16, 2008: "If John McCain wants to meet me, anywhere, anytime to have a debate about our respective policies in Iraq, Iran, the Middle East or around the world that is a conversation I’m happy to have."

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 13, 2008: Obama campaign manager David Plouffe: “Barack Obama offered to meet John McCain at five joint appearances between now and Election Day—the three traditional debates plus a joint town hall on the economy in July [on the Fourth of July] and an in-depth debate on foreign policy in August.”

 

IRAN

 

STATEMENT: “We can, then, more effectively deal with what I consider to be one of the greatest threats to the United States, to Israel, and world peace, and that is Iran,” Obama speaking to American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Chicago, March 5, 2007

 

EXPIRATION DATE: “Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny...They don’t pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us.” – May 20, 2008

 

STATEMENT: Question at the YouTube debate, as the video depicted leaders of the countries, including Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea?....."

 

"I would," Obama answered. July 27, 2007

 

EXPIRATION DATE: May 10, 2008: Susan E. Rice, a former State Department and National Security Council official who is a foreign policy adviser to the Democratic candidate: “But nobody said he would initiate contacts at the presidential level; that requires due preparation and advance work.”

 

JEREMIAH WRIGHT/TRINITY UNITED

 

STATEMENT: "I could no more disown Jeremiah Wright than I could disown my own grandmother."

 

—Barack Obama, March 18, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: on April 28, 2008, cut all ties to Wright, declaring, “based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought.”

 

STATEMENT: Obama said that his church, “Trinity United "embodies the black community in its entirety" and that his church was being caricatured on March 18, 2008.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: On May 31, 2008, Obama resigned his membership at Trinity United Church.

 

JIM JOHNSON

 

STATEMENT: Criticism of running mate vetter Jim Johnson loan from Countrywide was "a game" and that his vice-presidential vetting team “aren’t folks who are working for me.” June 10, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 11, 2008, when Obama accepted Johnson's resignation.

 

FISA

 

STATEMENT: Obama spokesman Bill Burton on October 24, 2007: “To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.”

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 20, 2008: “Given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as president, I will carefully monitor the program.”

 

NUCLEAR ENERGY

 

STATEMENT: “I am not a nuclear energy proponent.” Barack Obama, December 30, 2007

 

EXPIRATION DATE: The above statement actually was the expiration date for his previous position, “I actually think we should explore nuclear power as part of the energy mix,” expressed on July 23, 2007; the above statement expired when he told Democratic governors he thought it is “worth investigating its further development” on June 20, 2008.

 

NAFTA

 

STATEMENT: Tim Russert:: Senator Obama . . . Simple question: Will you, as president, say to Canada and Mexico, "This has not worked for us; we are out"?

 

Obama: “I will make sure that we renegotiate, in the same way that Senator Clinton talked about. And I think actually Senator Clinton's answer on this one is right. I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced. And that is not what has been happening so far.” February 23, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 18, 2008, Fortune magazine: “Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified,” he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA "devastating" and "a big mistake," despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

 

Does that mean his rhetoric was overheated and amplified? "Politicians are always guilty of that, and I don't exempt myself," he answered.

 

"I'm not a big believer in doing things unilaterally," Obama said. "I'm a big believer in opening up a dialogue and figuring out how we can make this work for all people."

 

PUBLIC FINANCING

 

STATEMENT: “If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.” Also, a Common Cause questionnaire dated November 27, 2007, asked “If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?”, Obama checked, “Yes.”

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 19, 2008: Obama announced he would not participate in the presidential public financing system.

 

WORKING OUT A DEAL ON PUBLIC FINANCING

 

STATEMENT: “What I’ve said is, at the point where I'm the nominee, at the point where it's appropriate, I will sit down with John McCain and make sure that we have a system that works for everybody.”Obama to Tim Russert, Febuary 27.

 

EXPIRATION DATE: When Obama announced his decision to break his public financing pledge June 19, no meeting between the Democratic nominee and McCain had occurred.

 

WELFARE REFORM

 

STATEMENT: “I probably would not have supported the federal legislation [to overhaul welfare], because I think it had some problems." Obama on the floor of the Illinois Senate, May 31, 1997

 

EXPIRATION DATE: April 11, 2008: Asked if he would have vetoed the 1996 law, Mr. Obama said, “I won’t second guess President Clinton for signing” it. Obama to the New York Times.

 

GAY MARRIAGE

 

STATEMENT: "Barack Obama has always believed that same-sex couples should enjoy equal rights under the law, and he will continue to fight for civil unions as president. He respects the decision of the California Supreme Court, and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage.” – campaign spokesman, May 5, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 29, 2008: “I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states… Finally, I want to congratulate all of you who have shown your love for each other by getting married these last few weeks.” — letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club

 

PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTION

 

STATEMENT: "Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term." – Interview with Relevant magazine, July 1, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: July 5, 2008: “My only point is that in an area like partial-birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously. It can be defined through physical health, It can be defined by serious clinical mental-health diseases.” statement to reporters.

 

DIVISION OF JERUSALEM

 

STATEMENT: "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." — speech before AIPAC, June 4, 2008

 

EXPIRATION DATE: June 6, 2008: "Jerusalem is a final status issue, which means it has to be negotiated between the two parties" as part of "an agreement that they both can live with." – an Obama adviser clarifying his remarks to the Jerusalem Post.

[kapkomet]

Oh come on now, SS, just replace Bush with Obama and we're even.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

ladies and gentleman, yet another victim of eight year amnesia, Paul Krugman

 

All of this goes far beyond politics as usual…you’ll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials….to find anything like what we’re seeing now you have to go back to the last time a Democrat was president.

 

or not...

 

 

 

 

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/...t-map-elections

[lostfan]

I actually didn't really give a s*** about Palin's map personally (notice I didn't comment, I just don't care) but those are just plain targets, not sniper crosshairs, the imagery is completely different. That's a pretty weak comparison. You almost have to TRY to think it's the same thing. Of course, blog commenters really aren't going to worry about that.

Edited April 2, 2010 by lostfan

[Balta1701]

It's always different.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Congressman Hank Johnson:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9R-cQ_A_6w

 

"My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.

 

Amazing.

[mr_genius]

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Congressman Hank Johnson:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9R-cQ_A_6w

 

 

 

Amazing.

 

 

[lostfan]

He meant that about as literally as Sean Hannity meant his "Tim McVeigh wannabes" comment a few days ago. That is to say, not at all. You see where he stopped because he thought the admiral or whoever was testifying was going to laugh and he basically ignored it. I'm surprised so many people think is really that mind-numblingly stupid and meant that, he actually had to issue a statement after that where he said something like he is worried that the island is going to be overpopulated.

[CrimsonWeltall]

He meant that about as literally as Sean Hannity meant his "Tim McVeigh wannabes" comment a few days ago. That is to say, not at all. You see where he stopped because he thought the admiral or whoever was testifying was going to laugh and he basically ignored it. I'm surprised so many people think is really that mind-numblingly stupid and meant that, he actually had to issue a statement after that where he said something like he is worried that the island is going to be overpopulated.

 

If he meant it in a jokey way, he has just about the worst delivery ever.