The Republican Thread

[Jenksismyhero]

"Something called 'volcano monitoring'..."

 

reminds me of this:

 

 

 

"Hey, I have no idea what validity this may have, but it sure sounds stupid! Let's cut more science funding! YEAH!"

 

How many jobs did that 2 million create? What was the benefit to the economy? That was the point of the stimulus.

[Balta1701]

How many jobs did that 2 million create? What was the benefit to the economy? That was the point of the stimulus.

First of all, it continued funding on a research program into ant biology. Now, just like "pig farts" may sound funny but can actually be a serious problem if you live near a hog processing plant, ants have enormous impacts on the environment and on man. They have the ability to destroy crops, they have the ability to harm people (fire ants), they can spread parasites, and there are uses for them in genetic research through understanding microbes that live in them and their short lifespan.

 

A full taxonomic representation of ants would be incredibly useful publicly in the, frankly, likely event that a new species appears on our shore due to importation from Africa. I have a new ant in this prime agricultural area...do I spend $20 million in public funds to eradicate it, or do I let it be and think that it's not harmless?

 

Finally...a big part of the goal of any actual "Stimulus" is to push fiscal policy hard once monetary policy hits the zero bound (i.e. the Fed drops rates to zero). We're already bordering on a prolonged deflation, which is the exact opposite of what you folks said would happen if the feds started printing money, and basically dropping dollars from a balloon and hoping they get spent is the single solution to that.

[Jenksismyhero]

First of all, it continued funding on a research program into ant biology. Now, just like "pig farts" may sound funny but can actually be a serious problem if you live near a hog processing plant, ants have enormous impacts on the environment and on man. They have the ability to destroy crops, they have the ability to harm people (fire ants), they can spread parasites, and there are uses for them in genetic research through understanding microbes that live in them and their short lifespan.

 

A full taxonomic representation of ants would be incredibly useful publicly in the, frankly, likely event that a new species appears on our shore due to importation from Africa. I have a new ant in this prime agricultural area...do I spend $20 million in public funds to eradicate it, or do I let it be and think that it's not harmless?

 

Finally...a big part of the goal of any actual "Stimulus" is to push fiscal policy hard once monetary policy hits the zero bound (i.e. the Fed drops rates to zero). We're already bordering on a prolonged deflation, which is the exact opposite of what you folks said would happen if the feds started printing money, and basically dropping dollars from a balloon and hoping they get spent is the single solution to that.

 

This was about CREATING jobs and kickstarting the economy again, not advancing scientific research. While the scientific advancement into ant biology might be necessary, it's not right now, when everyone is hurting for money. That money would have been better served employing a bunch of people at minimum wage jobs.

 

As to the last point, nothing was spent. That's the problem. I would have preferred they handed out 2 million to people with the requirement that they spend it. At least that would have done some economic good.

 

[Balta1701]

As to the last point, nothing was spent. That's the problem. I would have preferred they handed out 2 million to people with the requirement that they spend it. At least that would have done some economic good.

Nothing was spent, so you mean they canceled the program? Then why is there any complaint?

[Jenksismyhero]

Nothing was spent, so you mean they canceled the program? Then why is there any complaint?

 

The school and businesses in Africa got the majority of that money. It wasn't spent in the economic pool that would be beneficial. That's my point.

[Balta1701]

The school and businesses in Africa got the majority of that money. It wasn't spent in the economic pool that would be beneficial. That's my point.

So, the California Academy of Sciences doesn't count (whatever they are)? The companies they charter with don't count? The people who do the IT work/compiling don't count?

 

Anyway, another thing worth noting...approval for this funding almost certainly went through a peer review process if it is, as I'd suspect, an NSF funded study.

[Balta1701]

Oh, and here's the WH rebuttal, saying that these guys are full of it and have a track record of being called out for being full of it on these reports.

Now, we’re always glad to take a second look at projects when concerns are raised. In fact, there’s never been a stimulus program of this magnitude with anywhere near the amount of oversight that’s been brought to bear on the Recovery Act. And when we find a problem, we fix it. We’ve shut down hundreds of projects that weren’t delivering the goods.

 

But the inaccuracy of McCain/Coburn in this regard renders this report just as unreliable as the last two. We followed up the projects in those reports, and found half of their claims to be flat-out false or misleading. Many of the others criticized worthwhile, job-creating projects. Check out this link and you’ll see that news outlets like CNN have debunked their claims in the past, often by simply going to the folks who were working on the project and learning about it:

 

In the current report, our review so far finds that five of the 100 projects are not even Recovery Act projects. And others are just blatantly wrong on the facts. Take for example an award that McCain and Coburn describe as “funding a WNBA Practice Facility,” when in fact the award is building a tribal government center that will create education and health facilities while also creating hundreds of jobs. Moreover, the tribe has agreed to disallow any commercial use of the facility.

 

One of their top critiques in the new report is a clean energy program in California that’s put about 50 people to work so far, expects to create 1,500 construction jobs, and then 500 permanent green jobs after that. Gov. Schwarzenegger praised the program, as did the Chamber of Commerce. What would McCain and Coburn say to these workers? That they shouldn’t have this opportunity? That they should go back to the jobless roles? That building a clean energy future is the wrong way to go?

[Jenksismyhero]

Oh, and here's the WH rebuttal, saying that these guys are full of it and have a track record of being called out for being full of it on these reports.

 

oh, well if the white house says so, it must be true. cuz they're never wrong or misleading...

[Balta1701]

cuz they're never wrong or misleading...

But you know who isn't? John McCain. He's entirely trustworthy. Which is of course why he wants the 14th amendment overturned and the Dred Scott decision restored to it's rightful place. Out of his trustworthiness.

[kapkomet]

He doesn't want the 14th amendment "overturned". I see your language, and the alarmist crap it raises.

 

Furthermore, I would contend that a literal reading of the 14th amendment doesn't even require an amendment to suggest that all children born here are citizens anyway.

 

But, it's what they think will get them the most mileage, which is bulls*** and a political folly because they know it won't go anywhere anyway.

 

[Balta1701]

Yeah, on my list of things that shouldn't go anywhere...overturning the 14th amendment or pretending that it says nothing about birthright citizenship is pretty far up there.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

[StrangeSox]

This country has always been incredibly aggressive in granting citizenship.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Yeah, on my list of things that shouldn't go anywhere...overturning the 14th amendment or pretending that it says nothing about birthright citizenship is pretty far up there.

 

To be fair, the citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was implemented for a completely different purpose than what it is used for today.

[Balta1701]

To be fair, the citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was implemented for a completely different purpose than what it is used for today.

So, you're saying that the Constitution should be viewed as flexible, that when we try to apply it to a modern society distinct from that in which it was written, we should go into it with an open mind rather than rigidly focusing on the text?

[lostfan]

To be fair, the citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was implemented for a completely different purpose than what it is used for today.

You know, that's true, but that's never accepted as a valid argument for any other part of the Constitution.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

So, you're saying that the Constitution should be viewed as flexible, that when we try to apply it to a modern society distinct from that in which it was written, we should go into it with an open mind rather than rigidly focusing on the text?

 

Isn't that the point of amendments? I've never argued that shouldn't be the case.

[Balta1701]

Isn't that the point of amendments? I've never argued that shouldn't be the case.

The concept of a "living constitution" seems to be one of the greatest conservative enemies out there.

[whitesoxfan101]

The concept of a "living constitution" seems to be one of the greatest conservative enemies out there.

 

It's like a lot of other issues. The living constitution types tend to want to make the constitution a bit too flexible, and the rigid text people tend to think there is basically no wiggle room for a document originally written more than 220 years ago. I think it also depends on what part of the constitution you're looking at. For instance, obviously guns rights people will turn into rigid constitutional literalists when it comes to the second amendment.

Edited August 4, 2010 by whitesoxfan101

[Rex Kickass]

CNN poll:

 

41% of Republicans believe Obama was not born in the United States.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...as-born-in-u-s/

[kapkomet]

Yeah, on my list of things that shouldn't go anywhere...overturning the 14th amendment or pretending that it says nothing about birthright citizenship is pretty far up there.

 

 

I'm pretending that it says nothing about birthright citizenship? It says something, but not what most people interpret it as. I'm not ignoring it...

[Balta1701]

I'm pretending that it says nothing about birthright citizenship? It says something, but not what most people interpret it as. I'm not ignoring it...

All persons born or naturalized in the united states are citizens.

 

Really...there are some vague things in the constitution...That's not one of them.

[Balta1701]

So...should I try to cross over to the Republican primary today to vote for BasilMarceaux.com?

[whitesoxfan101]

CNN poll:

 

41% of Republicans believe Obama was not born in the United States.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/...as-born-in-u-s/

 

That's pretty scary, actually.

[Balta1701]

That's pretty scary, actually.

I dunno...I have to wonder whether the fact that the fact that it's being asked at all skews the result. Like, pretend I'm Kap for a minute except i haven't watched the news for 6 months because basilmarceaux.com told me not to, and I get a polling call asking whether I think Obama was born in the United States. I have no opinion on the matter, but I assume that there's a reason why the pollster's asking and I hate Obama, so I say "no he wasn't" because obviously that's why the Pollster would ask.

[StrangeSox]

Let's not forget that 25% of the country is in favor of military dictatorships as well. Question phrasing is very important, question order is very important, and also there's a lot of morons.