The Republican Thread

[southsider2k5]

Really? You don't think that there is a fundamental difference between what China is doing and what the U.S. is doing, just based on the actual status of their economies?

 

No not really. They are both manipulating the s*** out of their currencies right now. If anything what the US is doing is more impressive because of the size of their economy.

[southsider2k5]

IF...their government doesn't collapse the second they hit a legitimate economic blip.

 

It won't be a blip that takes them down, it will be a confidence factor. When it comes time that they have to cut back outlays and people lose confidence in the system, China will fold like a house of cards. Nothing that comes out of that country is real, from their economic numbers, to their employment numbers, to their social outlays. It is all fabrication and lies to keep up a ponzi scheme. Stop the confidence, and it goes under.

[southsider2k5]

I thought China's reaction, b****ing about US currency manipulation, was pretty ironic.

 

Incredibly ironic. Especially with a pegged currency.

[NorthSideSox72]

It won't be a blip that takes them down, it will be a confidence factor. When it comes time that they have to cut back outlays and people lose confidence in the system, China will fold like a house of cards. Nothing that comes out of that country is real, from their economic numbers, to their employment numbers, to their social outlays. It is all fabrication and lies to keep up a ponzi scheme. Stop the confidence, and it goes under.

I think this is a vast overstatement (ponzi scheme), but its certaintly true that the base economic data is closely held and not nearly as accurate as most large economies are capable of generating. And while that's a problem, its a problem that will fix itself quickly if or when the unpeg their currency. Once they do that and are subject to that level of scrutiny, their only choices will be to stay shut and see their economy crumble, or improve their data provision. They'll do the latter.

 

[southsider2k5]

I think this is a vast overstatement (ponzi scheme), but its certaintly true that the base economic data is closely held and not nearly as accurate as most large economies are capable of generating. And while that's a problem, its a problem that will fix itself quickly if or when the unpeg their currency. Once they do that and are subject to that level of scrutiny, their only choices will be to stay shut and see their economy crumble, or improve their data provision. They'll do the latter.

 

All of that assumes confidence in the system after their general public learns of the generations of lies they have been told. Would you keep sending money to Bernie Madoff after his collapse?

[NorthSideSox72]

All of that assumes confidence in the system after their general public learns of the generations of lies they have been told. Would you keep sending money to Bernie Madoff after his collapse?

The provisions of at least vaguely accurate data is really the only thing that will solve the confidence problem, and that is somethign relatively easy to fix. Your Bernie Madoff line is kid of ridiculous. A more apt description would be a hedge fund manager who kept all his numbers tightly held and questionable, then suddenly took his fund open to the public (which is illegal in the exact scenario, but this is just a general idea here). As long as he could provide numbers and audit of those numbers that was reasonably believeable, they'd get investment.

 

[Balta1701]

All of that assumes confidence in the system after their general public learns of the generations of lies they have been told. Would you keep sending money to Bernie Madoff after his collapse?

Part of the issue here though is that I think everyone who matters to the system sort of realizes that they've been lied to. It's that weird, quasi-police state thing where you know bad things are happening but you're not strong enough on your own to do anything about it.

 

Especially in the economic arena, the people with the money both here and there aren't stupid enough to believe the Chinese government. Instead, they're willing to close their eyes and protect the system, because it's a system they're benefiting from.

[NorthSideSox72]

Part of the issue here though is that I think everyone who matters to the system sort of realizes that they've been lied to. It's that weird, quasi-police state thing where you know bad things are happening but you're not strong enough on your own to do anything about it.

 

Especially in the economic arena, the people with the money both here and there aren't stupid enough to believe the Chinese government. Instead, they're willing to close their eyes and protect the system, because it's a system they're benefiting from.

Except that's changing now, has been for a few years. China's combined growth in energy use, exports, and general global impact coupled with up-yours monetary policy and lack of transparency have reached a point where its more bad than good for the world. That's why you are seeing a constant rise in noise from the rest of the world, both developed and developing, for China to get with the program. Its being done gradually so that they don't cause a bigger problem, but China will eventually boil to death like the proverbial frog if they don't act eventually. And so they will, just not in the timing or on the terms the rest of the world would prefer. They'll do it when they need to, a day which is coming soon.

[southsider2k5]

The provisions of at least vaguely accurate data is really the only thing that will solve the confidence problem, and that is somethign relatively easy to fix. Your Bernie Madoff line is kid of ridiculous. A more apt description would be a hedge fund manager who kept all his numbers tightly held and questionable, then suddenly took his fund open to the public (which is illegal in the exact scenario, but this is just a general idea here). As long as he could provide numbers and audit of those numbers that was reasonably believeable, they'd get investment.

 

But China isn't. Nothing they provide is true.

[southsider2k5]

Part of the issue here though is that I think everyone who matters to the system sort of realizes that they've been lied to. It's that weird, quasi-police state thing where you know bad things are happening but you're not strong enough on your own to do anything about it.

 

Especially in the economic arena, the people with the money both here and there aren't stupid enough to believe the Chinese government. Instead, they're willing to close their eyes and protect the system, because it's a system they're benefiting from.

 

Which is why it doesn't collapse with one person. It collapses when confidence quits holding it up.

[Balta1701]

But China isn't. Nothing they provide is true.

You say that as though it's a real unique situation.

[NorthSideSox72]

But China isn't. Nothing they provide is true.

Isn't what? Providing good data? No they aren't, you're right. That's what I'm saying though, that is something that will come with time, because it has to if they want to continue to grow.

 

As to Balta's comment, its all relative. The numbers any country puts out are questionable, but China's are outright pulled out of someone's ass.

 

[kapkomet]

Chris Christie gets called out by the U.S. DOJ's Inspector General's office as an example of someone gaming the system for his own benefit.

You don't know how this works at all, do you? And I'm not trying to mock you, I'm asking you a question. Are you willing to learn why this story is a non-story, or are you just going to dismiss what is factual here?

[Balta1701]

You don't know how this works at all, do you? And I'm not trying to mock you, I'm asking you a question. Are you willing to learn why this story is a non-story, or are you just going to dismiss what is factual here?

Ok, enlighten me?

[StrangeSox]

You don't know how this works at all, do you? And I'm not trying to mock you, I'm asking you a question. Are you willing to learn why this story is a non-story, or are you just going to dismiss what is factual here?

 

I'm curious as well. I know I'd get my ass chewed for staying at hotels far above typical expenses (we don't follow GSA per diem for lodging) without providing justification.

[Rex Kickass]

You don't know how this works at all, do you? And I'm not trying to mock you, I'm asking you a question. Are you willing to learn why this story is a non-story, or are you just going to dismiss what is factual here?

 

This was a story during his rise to governor where he earned a mandate commanding 49% majority of voters.

 

This is not out of character for Chris Christie. He also, in several circumstances, used his authority as US Attorney to get out of traffic tickets. Including in one instance, where he was stopped for driving the wrong way on a one way street, and caused a motorcyclist to crash.

[kapkomet]

This was a story during his rise to governor where he earned a mandate commanding 49% majority of voters.

 

This is not out of character for Chris Christie. He also, in several circumstances, used his authority as US Attorney to get out of traffic tickets. Including in one instance, where he was stopped for driving the wrong way on a one way street, and caused a motorcyclist to crash.

 

 

That I won't defend.

 

Ok - here's how the per diem stuff works on a couple of different levels. I'll try to simplify and use examples that I've run into.

 

Each city/region has their own per diem rates as established by the us government. There's foreign allowances (http://aoprals.state.gov/) and US allowances (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/21287). For example, because I work for an aerospace company, our rates cannot exceed established per diem guidelines. We get audited by government people all the time in this.

 

However, there's a couple of instances where per diems go out the window. One is if there's no facilities within a certain perimeter of where you're staying - you get stuck with the rates charged - and most of the time it's full up pricing and no discounts received, and two, if there's ANY type of security risks, you have to stay in a pre-approved facility which exceeds the per diem guidelines.

 

What I find funny about this is they tell you where you have to stay, and they know you're going to exceed per diem rates. So, it's an exception right away if people want to make a stink about it.

 

What I cannot tell you about Gov. Christie specifically is if this stuff falls in category one or category two... people know that these expenses are tracked and they don't stay at places without one of the two being the case 99.9% of the time. They're not going to "rip off the tax payor" or stay somewhere extremely excessive because everyone knows these are scrutinzed, let alone scrutinized because said person is running for political office.

 

I just don't think there's much of a story here because of these reasons - honestly, much like I don't think there's a story of $200 million per day being spent on Obama overseas - it's too easy to inflate these type of numbers to make a story that's not a story... i.e. said hotel costs $499 per room per night gross, but on a discount it's $199 per night typically. Oops, it cost $499 because you're the US government! Cha-ching! Talk about inflation.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

[NorthSideSox72]

That I won't defend.

 

Ok - here's how the per diem stuff works on a couple of different levels. I'll try to simplify and use examples that I've run into.

 

Each city/region has their own per diem rates as established by the us government. There's foreign allowances (http://aoprals.state.gov/) and US allowances (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/21287). For example, because I work for an aerospace company, our rates cannot exceed established per diem guidelines. We get audited by government people all the time in this.

 

However, there's a couple of instances where per diems go out the window. One is if there's no facilities within a certain perimeter of where you're staying - you get stuck with the rates charged - and most of the time it's full up pricing and no discounts received, and two, if there's ANY type of security risks, you have to stay in a pre-approved facility which exceeds the per diem guidelines.

 

What I find funny about this is they tell you where you have to stay, and they know you're going to exceed per diem rates. So, it's an exception right away if people want to make a stink about it.

 

What I cannot tell you about Gov. Christie specifically is if this stuff falls in category one or category two... people know that these expenses are tracked and they don't stay at places without one of the two being the case 99.9% of the time. They're not going to "rip off the tax payor" or stay somewhere extremely excessive because everyone knows these are scrutinzed, let alone scrutinized because said person is running for political office.

 

I just don't think there's much of a story here because of these reasons - honestly, much like I don't think there's a story of $200 million per day being spent on Obama overseas - it's too easy to inflate these type of numbers to make a story that's not a story... i.e. said hotel costs $499 per room per night gross, but on a discount it's $199 per night typically. Oops, it cost $499 because you're the US government! Cha-ching! Talk about inflation.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

Good post. I like this version of kap.

 

I agree that this sort of thing is really a non-story.

 

[kapkomet]

Good post. I like this version of kap.

 

I agree that this sort of thing is really a non-story.

 

 

Contrary to popular opinion, I do know something about some things.

[lostfan]

That I won't defend.

 

Ok - here's how the per diem stuff works on a couple of different levels. I'll try to simplify and use examples that I've run into.

 

Each city/region has their own per diem rates as established by the us government. There's foreign allowances (http://aoprals.state.gov/) and US allowances (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/21287). For example, because I work for an aerospace company, our rates cannot exceed established per diem guidelines. We get audited by government people all the time in this.

 

However, there's a couple of instances where per diems go out the window. One is if there's no facilities within a certain perimeter of where you're staying - you get stuck with the rates charged - and most of the time it's full up pricing and no discounts received, and two, if there's ANY type of security risks, you have to stay in a pre-approved facility which exceeds the per diem guidelines.

 

What I find funny about this is they tell you where you have to stay, and they know you're going to exceed per diem rates. So, it's an exception right away if people want to make a stink about it.

 

What I cannot tell you about Gov. Christie specifically is if this stuff falls in category one or category two... people know that these expenses are tracked and they don't stay at places without one of the two being the case 99.9% of the time. They're not going to "rip off the tax payor" or stay somewhere extremely excessive because everyone knows these are scrutinzed, let alone scrutinized because said person is running for political office.

 

I just don't think there's much of a story here because of these reasons - honestly, much like I don't think there's a story of $200 million per day being spent on Obama overseas - it's too easy to inflate these type of numbers to make a story that's not a story... i.e. said hotel costs $499 per room per night gross, but on a discount it's $199 per night typically. Oops, it cost $499 because you're the US government! Cha-ching! Talk about inflation.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

100% accurate.

 

Staying over per diem can be a huge, huge pain in the ass... like if you go travel during a convention or something and all the hotel rates are jacked up because of increased demand/hotels openly colluding on price gouging/whatever and they don't want to give you an exception to policy letter. Yuck.

[StrangeSox]

That I won't defend.

 

Ok - here's how the per diem stuff works on a couple of different levels. I'll try to simplify and use examples that I've run into.

 

Each city/region has their own per diem rates as established by the us government. There's foreign allowances (http://aoprals.state.gov/) and US allowances (http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/21287). For example, because I work for an aerospace company, our rates cannot exceed established per diem guidelines. We get audited by government people all the time in this.

 

However, there's a couple of instances where per diems go out the window. One is if there's no facilities within a certain perimeter of where you're staying - you get stuck with the rates charged - and most of the time it's full up pricing and no discounts received, and two, if there's ANY type of security risks, you have to stay in a pre-approved facility which exceeds the per diem guidelines.

 

What I find funny about this is they tell you where you have to stay, and they know you're going to exceed per diem rates. So, it's an exception right away if people want to make a stink about it.

 

What I cannot tell you about Gov. Christie specifically is if this stuff falls in category one or category two... people know that these expenses are tracked and they don't stay at places without one of the two being the case 99.9% of the time. They're not going to "rip off the tax payor" or stay somewhere extremely excessive because everyone knows these are scrutinzed, let alone scrutinized because said person is running for political office.

 

I just don't think there's much of a story here because of these reasons - honestly, much like I don't think there's a story of $200 million per day being spent on Obama overseas - it's too easy to inflate these type of numbers to make a story that's not a story... i.e. said hotel costs $499 per room per night gross, but on a discount it's $199 per night typically. Oops, it cost $499 because you're the US government! Cha-ching! Talk about inflation.

 

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

Good post. Even if he was splurging, it's not really a big sum we're talking about.

 

One thing, though, usually government employees get discount rates at hotels. At least for people traveling to national labs and nuclear facilities.

 

[kapkomet]

Good post. Even if he was splurging, it's not really a big sum we're talking about.

 

One thing, though, usually government employees get discount rates at hotels. At least for people traveling to national labs and nuclear facilities.

 

 

Yea, government employees get government rates most of the time, and most people get pre negotiated rates. The problem is, sometimes said rates aren't available or the pricing isn't available. Hotels aren't stupid, they know the per diems and don't want to lose the business, but sometimes they jack up the rates anyway for capacity/conventions or whatever.

[EvilMonkey]

Yea, government employees get government rates most of the time, and most people get pre negotiated rates. The problem is, sometimes said rates aren't available or the pricing isn't available. Hotels aren't stupid, they know the per diems and don't want to lose the business, but sometimes they jack up the rates anyway for capacity/conventions or whatever.

So, back to my original post that started this branch of conversation, anyone wanna defend what that school superintendent was doing?

[Jenksismyhero]

Senator Rangel walks out of his own trial. Pretty hilarious.

 

"What?! I'm on trial?! I need a lawyer!"

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45134.html

[Balta1701]

The ethics committee has found that Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-NY) violated congressional ethics rules.

 

The committee ruled that Rangel was guilty on 11 counts. Rangel had been accused of 13 violations. On one, the committee was deadlocked. The committee dismissed another charge, rolling it into one of the others.

 

The subcommittee that found the violations will now forward the convictions to the full ethics committee. The full committee will then hold another hearing, during which it will vote on whether to recommend a punishment for Rangel. If they do, they will send that recommendation -- be it admonishment, censuring, expulsion or otherwise -- to the full House for a vote.

Link with official document