The Republican Thread

[Balta1701]

Well, there's a difference between repeated usage of the filibuster at historic levels to stop bills that have been debated and discussed and negotiated for months and stopping this train wreck of a bill that's had no discussion or negotiation but has a very big impact on the state of Wisconsin for years to come.

I'd call that a distinction without a difference. I am happy to see 2k5 coming around and supporting the Wisconsinan workers though.

[southsider2k5]

Well, there's a difference between repeated usage of the filibuster at historic levels to stop bills that have been debated and discussed and negotiated for months and stopping this train wreck of a bill that's had no discussion or negotiation but has a very big impact on the state of Wisconsin for years to come.

 

Of course there is a difference. The Democrats are doing it.

[StrangeSox]

Of course there is a difference. The Democrats are doing it.

 

I think it's a question of quantity.

 

edit: but, ultimately, it is still an abuse of the rules in the same way that cloture is abused in the US Senate. I just think it's worth noting the difference between doing it once to force debate on a bill and doing it hundreds of times to block just about everything.

Edited February 21, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

South Dakota Senator Thune has decided against running for the 2012 Republican Nomination.

[Jenksismyhero]

Those f***ing Republicans. Why can't they tone down the rhetoric?

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-roo...-when-necessary

[mr_genius]

Those f***ing Republicans. Why can't they tone down the rhetoric?

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-roo...-when-necessary

 

Just proves what all of us distinguished GOP thread posters knew all along, the calls for civility from the Democrat party and their media minions was just opportunistic rambling.

[southsider2k5]

Just proves what all of us distinguished GOP thread posters knew all along, the calls for civility from the Democrat party and their media minions was just opportunistic rambling.

 

Just like the filibuster complaints of obstruction.

[mr_genius]

Just like the filibuster complaints of obstruction.

 

ah yes, of course. obstruction is now noble and necessary.

[southsider2k5]

I got a good laugh out of this one...

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spo...tts-irony-daily

 

Ezra Klein, yesterday: “Gonzo journalist Ian Murphy noticed one of Wisconsin’s Senate Democrats complaining that Gov. Scott Walker was impossible to reach on the phone.”

 

So, just to clarify, lawmakers who have fled the state, who are calling in to CNN from an undisclosed location with a list of demands, are complaining that the governor is hard to reach.

[Balta1701]

If y'all would like to declare that all parliamentary obstruction tactics are null and void, I'm happy to have your support for Socialized Medicine, a carbon trading system, cutting back fossil fuel subsidies, a $1.5 trillion stimulus that wasn't overloaded with tax breaks, 100+ judges, several hundred executive branch employees, repealing the defense of marriage act, a bill that broke up the big banks, the DREAM act, the employee free choice act, and a campaign finance reform bill.

 

Hell, you know what, I'll trade you the bargaining rights for every teacher and public worker in the country for all of those. Not just Wisconsin.

 

You in?

[Jenksismyhero]

If y'all would like to declare that all parliamentary obstruction tactics are null and void, I'm happy to have your support for Socialized Medicine, a carbon trading system, cutting back fossil fuel subsidies, a $1.5 trillion stimulus that wasn't overloaded with tax breaks, 100+ judges, several hundred executive branch employees, repealing the defense of marriage act, a bill that broke up the big banks, the DREAM act, the employee free choice act, and a campaign finance reform bill.

 

Hell, you know what, I'll trade you the bargaining rights for every teacher and public worker in the country for all of those. Not just Wisconsin.

 

You in?

 

If obstruction is for a progressive issue, it's "zomg! go them! stick it to those old rich white guys in power! they're just evil and corrupt and are only trying to pass X bill because it'll benefit them!" But if it's anything different its "they're ruining our country! This isn't democracy! Man those old rich white guys suck! blah blah"

 

Have some consistency.

[Balta1701]

If obstruction is for a progressive issue, it's "zomg! go them! stick it to those old rich white guys in power! they're just evil and corrupt and are only trying to pass X bill because it'll benefit them!" But if it's anything different its "they're ruining our country! This isn't democracy! Man those old rich white guys suck! blah blah"

 

Have some consistency.

Let me put it another way.

 

You guys proved that obstruction without regard to the consequences is a winning electoral strategy. It dominated the last election.

 

I'm happy to give up the Wisc dems. It sucks that they're doing this. You shouldn't have to run away to avoid a bill being passed. The Indiana Dems are demanding something like a dozen bills be pulled, according to one report, I'm not sure on the accuracy of.

 

This is not the way a democracy should run.

 

But if obstruction without regards to the consequences produces electoral gains...f*** it, I'm game. It's clear which side the electoral rewards lie on right now.

[Jenksismyhero]

Let me put it another way.

 

You guys proved that obstruction without regard to the consequences is a winning electoral strategy. It dominated the last election.

 

I'm happy to give up the Wisc dems. It sucks that they're doing this. You shouldn't have to run away to avoid a bill being passed. The Indiana Dems are demanding something like a dozen bills be pulled, according to one report, I'm not sure on the accuracy of.

 

This is not the way a democracy should run.

 

But if obstruction without regards to the consequences produces electoral gains...f*** it, I'm game. It's clear which side the electoral rewards lie on right now.

 

I'd argue that seeking political asylum in another state is completely different than using the rules to your advantage. But more importantly, my position has never been that Repubs doing this sucks but the Dems doing this is totally justified. That's you guys. You pick and choose when you complain about these things based not on the actions being taken, but purely on the underlying issue at hand.

[Balta1701]

I'd argue that seeking political asylum in another state is completely different than using the rules to your advantage. But more importantly, my position has never been that Repubs doing this sucks but the Dems doing this is totally justified. That's you guys. You pick and choose when you complain about these things based not on the actions being taken, but purely on the underlying issue at hand.

And I've seen liberals argue that fleeing the state is much different than the filibuster since the rules for quorum are explicitly spelled out in the WISC constitution while the rules for the filibuster are completely arbitrary Senate rules.

 

I don't buy either explanation. Either way, you're using a procedural tactic as a delay.

 

If you're not picking and choosing which things to complain about, then why are we having this discussion?

[NorthSideSox72]

Its all bulls***. It was bulls*** with the GOP used so many procedural filibusters when they were in the minority, and its bulls*** that the WI Dem Senate left the state. Bulls***, bulls***, bulls***.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

And I've seen liberals argue that fleeing the state is much different than the filibuster since the rules for quorum are explicitly spelled out in the WISC constitution while the rules for the filibuster are completely arbitrary Senate rules.

 

I don't buy either explanation. Either way, you're using a procedural tactic as a delay.

 

If you're not picking and choosing which things to complain about, then why are we having this discussion?

 

Because i'm pointing out the inconsistency in reaction without setting forth my opinion. I tend to agree that both are bulls*** for what it's worth.

[Cknolls]

Who do you think will be the first t o report this, Sawyer,Williams, Couric,....:

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/24/video...ass-you-f**got/

 

 

 

Very constructive..

 

 

How about this one;

 

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/23/video...works-activist/

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2011 by Cknolls

[southsider2k5]

Let me put it another way.

 

You guys proved that obstruction without regard to the consequences is a winning electoral strategy. It dominated the last election.

 

I'm happy to give up the Wisc dems. It sucks that they're doing this. You shouldn't have to run away to avoid a bill being passed. The Indiana Dems are demanding something like a dozen bills be pulled, according to one report, I'm not sure on the accuracy of.

 

This is not the way a democracy should run.

 

But if obstruction without regards to the consequences produces electoral gains...f*** it, I'm game. It's clear which side the electoral rewards lie on right now.

 

That sounds about right. I did a debate in class today about what was going on in Indy and pulled the actual bills on education and there are at least a half of a dozen of them alone.

[Balta1701]

Because i'm pointing out the inconsistency in reaction without setting forth my opinion. I tend to agree that both are bulls*** for what it's worth.

I agree that both are BS.

 

But as long as they work, they're going to get used.

[mr_genius]

Obama in search of bribe money

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50081.html

 

so much for transparency.

[whitesoxfan101]

So breaking news on twitter tells me "Wisconsin Assembly passes bill stripping public workers of collective bargaining rights - AP". For those of you smarter than I: how can a state strip public workers of collective bargaining rights? It just doesn't sound like something a state can do to me. But I'm admittedly very ignorant on this subject. I'd love to know if other states have done this.

Edited February 25, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[southsider2k5]

Let me put it another way.

 

You guys proved that obstruction without regard to the consequences is a winning electoral strategy. It dominated the last election.

 

I'm happy to give up the Wisc dems. It sucks that they're doing this. You shouldn't have to run away to avoid a bill being passed. The Indiana Dems are demanding something like a dozen bills be pulled, according to one report, I'm not sure on the accuracy of.

 

This is not the way a democracy should run.

 

But if obstruction without regards to the consequences produces electoral gains...f*** it, I'm game. It's clear which side the electoral rewards lie on right now.

 

I'm sure that would work both ways. If you give the Republicans everything they want, they will quit being hypocrites just like the Democrats would. Good luck with that.

[Balta1701]

So breaking news on twitter tells me "Wisconsin Assembly passes bill stripping public workers of collective bargaining rights - AP". For those of you smarter than I: how can a state strip public workers of collective bargaining rights? It just doesn't sound like something a state can do to me. But I'm admittedly very ignorant on this subject. I'd love to know if other states have done this.

Federal Law does not necessarily guarantee every industry/business the right to organize (and a large number of people would be happy if federal law banned Union organizing). In particular, Federal Law does not include any guarantee for public workers to be able to join Unions. Right now, there are

 

This law would effectively do the same thing in Wisconsin. You could join a union, but paying dues are made very hard because you can't have them withheld from paychecks, and the Union has no right to collectively bargain; it's a union that pays for a beer hall or something like that.

[Jenksismyhero]

Federal Law does not necessarily guarantee every industry/business the right to organize (and a large number of people would be happy if federal law banned Union organizing). In particular, Federal Law does not include any guarantee for public workers to be able to join Unions. Right now, there are

 

This law would effectively do the same thing in Wisconsin. You could join a union, but paying dues are made very hard because you can't have them withheld from paychecks, and the Union has no right to collectively bargain; it's a union that pays for a beer hall or something like that.

 

Come on, let's be honest about it. They can still collectively bargain for wages - the most important element -it's the benefits and working conditions they can't bargain for. The benefits part being what most states are having a hard time paying for this year and into the future.

[StrangeSox]

Let's be honest about how negotiations work. There's only one thing to "bargain" over now. There's nothing to give or take from other parts. It destroys the ability to bargain. And that doesn't count the rules about dues collections, having yearly votes and having pay raises subject to general votes. The bill is designed to neuter unions, period.