The Republican Thread

[southsider2k5]

Gotcha, for every dollar the GOV Spends on infrastructure building, they get back 104% back in taxes. I believe it is the only ROI that is positive in regards to GOV spending.

 

Do you have a source for those numbers/

[Balta1701]

Do you have a source for those numbers/

I'd like to note...I googled for it and couldn't find it.

[southsider2k5]

I'd like to note...I googled for it and couldn't find it.

 

Exactly. I also couldn't find a real source that broke down government spending by tax bracket either.

[VictoryMC98]

Do you have a source for those numbers/

 

It was from several books,

 

Bernie Sanders, Speech he did in Dec, which is now a book.

Robert Reich's "Aftershock: The Next Economy and America's Future"

 

The Young Turks, internet news sites..

 

Though, I have looked and others have tried, yet I/they can't find anything to discredit that claim.

[NorthSideSox72]

It was from several books,

 

Bernie Sanders, Speech he did in Dec, which is now a book.

Robert Reich's "Aftershock: The Next Economy and America's Future"

 

The Young Turks, internet news sites..

 

Though, I have looked and others have tried, yet I/they can't find anything to discredit that claim.

The bolded is the opposite of how this works. You cannot come in with some overly precise number for something very difficult to measure, with no citation other than your recollection of a speech or book, and then say nothing refutes it. If you want to throw a number out there, you will not be taken seriously with it without showing us something that proves you didn't just make it up.

 

The number may be right, but, what is included as infrastructure? What time frame? There are fundamental issues with saying in some broad sense that infrastructure projects get 104% return.

 

[StrangeSox]

come on guys this took me about 5 seconds to open a new tab and search!

 

http://www.un.org/esa/policy/backgroundpap...rodriguez_1.pdf

 

. Indeed, Fernald finds that when growth in the stock of

roads increases, productivity increases disproportionately in industries that are intensive

in the use of vehicles. Fernald’s estimates indicate that the growth of infrastructure

provision in the United States from 1953 to 1973 had an average rate of return of 104%,

quite in line with Aschauer’s original estimate. However, Fernald also finds that the rate

of return decreased dramatically after 1973. Although he found that there was still a

quantitatively and statistically significant positive effect of roads on manufacturing

productivity, the effect of infrastructure investment in non-manufacturing productivity

turned negative (albeit not significantly so) in the post-1973 period.

 

the cite: Fernald, J. G. (1999). "Roads to Prosperity? Assessing the Link Between Pubic

Capital and Productivity." American Economic Review 89(3): 619-638.

[southsider2k5]

come on guys this took me about 5 seconds to open a new tab and search!

 

http://www.un.org/esa/policy/backgroundpap...rodriguez_1.pdf

 

 

 

the cite: Fernald, J. G. (1999). "Roads to Prosperity? Assessing the Link Between Pubic

Capital and Productivity." American Economic Review 89(3): 619-638.

 

So that stat is 30 years old, and had faded from reality 12 years ago, but it is apt today?

[StrangeSox]

idk I was just saying it took almost zero effort to find it.

[southsider2k5]

idk I was just saying it took almost zero effort to find it.

 

When he said a figure, I assumed he was talking about one from the last few years, not before I was born.

[The Sir]

Marietta College in Ohio threatens to ban 9/11 commemoration unless the flags of other nations are included. Student Life director Robert Pastoor says we must consider the feelings of Chinese and Muslim students towards such displays.

 

This is sickening.

 

I don't care if foreigners want to come and study at our universities. I don't blame them, we have some of the greatest universities on Earth. But they don't get to come here and then complain when we practice our customs as usual and show love for our country. If they don't like that, they can go right the f*** home.

 

I love the American flag with all my heart. But I'm not gonna go to Saudi Arabia or China and complain when their flags are shown instead of ours. That'd be idiotic. When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in America, do as the Americans. Why some people have a hard time understanding this is beyond me. Especially these idiots who go around charading as educators.

 

And Robert Pastoor is so damn concerned with the feelings of the Chinese and Muslims here, but where is his concern for the feelings of patriotic Americans who might be studying on his campus? This kind of s*** is becoming so widespread these days. Why can't people like that realize that the freedom of speech (which certain Americans like Ms. Snowe are trying to practice) trumps the right of other people to not be offended? I don't recall that latter right being in the Constitution.

 

I won't go into the politics I'm certain Mr. Pastoor is influenced by, since a bunch of people will just throw hissy fits about it. But it should be pretty obvious.

Edited September 9, 2011 by God Loves The Infantry

[VictoryMC98]

The bolded is the opposite of how this works. You cannot come in with some overly precise number for something very difficult to measure, with no citation other than your recollection of a speech or book, and then say nothing refutes it. If you want to throw a number out there, you will not be taken seriously with it without showing us something that proves you didn't just make it up.

 

The number may be right, but, what is included as infrastructure? What time frame? There are fundamental issues with saying in some broad sense that infrastructure projects get 104% return.

 

So a web site is more of "source" than a book? And since both of those books are on my Kindle, I can't give you a page #..

 

As for disputing the claim.. I have tried to find someone to dispute that, but no one has. I hold the two men in high regards, so I believe they do they own research, and would not pull a "Fox" type reporting.

 

Here we go...

 

We spend to rebuilt bridges, roads, damns.. which put money in the pocket of construction workers.. These workers will now buy things, which we will need people to see/build those things, creating jobs in the private sector .... All of these jobs, and people buying will pay taxes, which is the ROI. Its not an instant fix, it will take time, but something we have not done in a long time.. A constant commitment to rebuilding America is IMO the only way the GOV can help with the economy.

 

 

[VictoryMC98]

When he said a figure, I assumed he was talking about one from the last few years, not before I was born.

 

When was the last time the GOV spend money on rebuilding these roads, bridges.. etc? We keep forgetting to "pay" that bill, prior to going to war.

[StrangeSox]

If the flags are meant to represent the individual victims, wouldn't it make sense to represent them with a flag of their own nationality? I mean, just from a respect for the actual victims perspective that seems like it should be non-controversial to me. If you were killed in the 7-7-05 attacks in London, wouldn't you rather be remembered with an American flag instead of the union jack?

[StrangeSox]

So a web site is more of "source" than a book? And since both of those books are on my Kindle, I can't give you a page #..

 

Fernald, J. G. (1999). "Roads to Prosperity? Assessing the Link Between Pubic

Capital and Productivity." American Economic Review 89(3): 619-638.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Marietta College in Ohio threatens to ban 9/11 commemoration unless the flags of other nations are included. Student Life director Robert Pastoor says we must consider the feelings of Chinese and Muslim students towards such displays.

 

This is sickening.

 

I don't care if foreigners want to come and study at our universities. I don't blame them, we have some of the greatest universities on Earth. But they don't get to come here and then complain when we practice our customs as usual and show love for our country. If they don't like that, they can go right the f*** home.

 

Your article says there were no such complaints. A single administrator, the VP of Student Life, was asking them to add the foreign flags. There was no threat of the event being canceled at all.

 

Sarah Snow sounds like a giant drama queen.

 

"Our campus is multicultural and we have a number of people from other parts of the world and we wanted to show respect to everybody that lost a life that day," said Tom Perry, director of college relations at Marietta College, said about including the flags of many nations.

 

The decision was controversial on campus, with some students in favor of having only American flags. The event was never in danger of being canceled and the college provided the flags of other nations for the event, Perry said.

http://www.mariettatimes.com/page/content....d.html?nav=5002

 

[southsider2k5]

When was the last time the GOV spend money on rebuilding these roads, bridges.. etc? We keep forgetting to "pay" that bill, prior to going to war.

 

We do this every single year to the tune of billions and billions of dollars.

[The Sir]

If the flags are meant to represent the individual victims, wouldn't it make sense to represent them with a flag of their own nationality? I mean, just from a respect for the actual victims perspective that seems like it should be non-controversial to me. If you were killed in the 7-7-05 attacks in London, wouldn't you rather be remembered with an American flag instead of the union jack?

 

To your first question, no. A Bermudan and a Salvadorean may have died on 9/11, but this wasn't an attack on them. They were just collateral. This was an attack on America. And as a result, I would expect people to commemorate the day with American flags. Besides, Ms. Snowe didn't say anything about individual victims.

 

If I die in a terrorist attack on civilians of another country, I hope they'd repatriate my remains and bury me with full military honors. But I wouldn't expect citizens of that country to go and wave an American flag along with a bunch of their own flags later on down the road just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was an attack on their country and their people, and they can commemorate the anniversary with solemn dedications to their nation.

 

Additionally, while they did sort of insist that the flags of each country that suffered casualties be displayed, Robert Pastoor did at one point drop that infuriating line about respecting the feelings of Muslim and Chinese students. And I absolutely resent this politically correct idea that the American flag should be taboo lest we offend some of our guests. If you come to America to further your education, you don't get to be offended by us loving our country. If you do that, I don't want you here.

[The Sir]

Your article says there were no such complaints. A single administrator, the VP of Student Life, was asking them to add the foreign flags. There was no threat of the event being canceled at all.

 

Sarah Snow sounds like a giant drama queen.

 

 

http://www.mariettatimes.com/page/content....d.html?nav=5002

 

That's the thing. There don't seem to be complaints from the foreigners. Every time there's an incident like this, it doesn't seem like the foreigners complain. It just seems like wimpy, leftist administrators conjure up such fears in order to justify their anti-American manuevers. They insist on appeasing all these foreign groups, but don't realize that the foreigners usually have more sense than they do and appear to realize that Americans can behave as patriotically as they'd like.

 

The fact that the Saudis and Chinese in this case aren't complaining does not excuse the cowardice of Robert Pastoor. Gutless individuals like him do not deserve to be in education.

[The Sir]

Also, multiculturalism is stupid.

[CrimsonWeltall]

To your first question, no. A Bermudan and a Salvadorean may have died on 9/11, but this wasn't an attack on them. They were just collateral. This was an attack on America. And as a result, I would expect people to commemorate the day with American flags. Besides, Ms. Snowe didn't say anything about individual victims.

 

No, but there's no doubt that's the meaning of the display. She put up 2977 American flags. There were 2977 victims in the attacks. 237 of them were not Americans.

 

If I die in a terrorist attack on civilians of another country, I hope they'd repatriate my remains and bury me with full military honors. But I wouldn't expect citizens of that country to go and wave an American flag along with a bunch of their own flags later on down the road just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

You'd probably think it odd if your death was commemorated by the flag of that other country, wouldn't you?

 

RIP God Loves the Infantry

 

The fact that the Saudis and Chinese in this case aren't complaining does not excuse the cowardice of Robert Pastoor. Gutless individuals like him do not deserve to be in education.

 

How is he cowardly or gutless for pointing out to Ms. Snowe that her display inaccurately portrays the deaths of foreigners as deaths of Americans?

 

[StrangeSox]

The dismissal of the lives of non-Americans as "collateral" is pretty insulting, too.

[VictoryMC98]

We do this every single year to the tune of billions and billions of dollars.

 

Are you fine with the way our infrastructure shape is in currently?

[southsider2k5]

Are you fine with the way our infrastructure shape is in currently?

 

That is a complete change of subject. We pay that bill every time we go to the gas pump or go through a toll booth.

[The Sir]

You'd probably think it odd if your death was commemorated by the flag of that other country, wouldn't you?

 

RIP God Loves the Infantry

 

I don't know why on Earth they'd put my name next to that flag, but hey, it's their country. So I don't really care. My American family and friends would commemorate my life and death according to my wishes, with American flags, so that'd be satisfactory.

 

How is he cowardly or gutless for pointing out to Ms. Snowe that her display inaccurately portrays the deaths of foreigners as deaths of Americans?

 

He's a coward for trying so pathetically hard to appease foreign visitors at the expense of patriotic Americans. His comment that I've already harped on a few times shows that he's just worried about offending a few people who are different.

[StrangeSox]

That is a complete change of subject. We pay that bill every time we go to the gas pump or go through a toll booth.

 

Partially, the gas tax seriously underfunds road construction and maintenance costs.