The Republican Thread

[Rex Kickass]

I could very easily see the GOP take the Senate and lose the House this November. The math really plays into the GOP's favor. However, Snowe's departure makes it that much more difficult.

[kapkomet]

She voted to

Disapprove the raising of the debt limit.

Against having millionaires pay a surtax to extend the payroll tax.

Repeal the Health Care Act

Pass the Ryan Budget

Against the Dream Act

 

In this congress, she voted with the Republican leadership 74% of the time. I may not be the greatest with math, but I'm pretty sure that's not 2/3.

 

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/s000663/

Let's see...

1) Her vote was irrelevant - political cover

2) Her vote was irrelevant - political cover

3) She voted for the damn thing in the first place

4) Oh wow. I better give her +1 for this one.

5) Oh, what else was attached to the dream act? IIRC Harry the Body had some sticky whicky s*** with the bill to allow for cover.

 

It's okay, she's "too conservative" anyway.

[StrangeSox]

"too conservative" for what? You lost your mind when I referred to her as moderate.

[kapkomet]

"too conservative" for what? You lost your mind when I referred to her as moderate.

 

 

Sarcasm meter doesn't work?

 

When you are on the same side of BHO's stated position on a policy 64% of the time, who isn't a moderate by the way despite the broad politic-blind paint brush you all keep painting him as, you're not even "moderate", you're liberal.

[StrangeSox]

I still can't parse what that sentence means.

[NorthSideSox72]

Sarcasm meter doesn't work?

 

When you are on the same side of BHO's stated position on a policy 64% of the time, who isn't a moderate by the way despite the broad politic-blind paint brush you all keep painting him as, you're not even "moderate", you're liberal.

Kap, I know you are smarter than this. Like or dislike Obama - and obviously you dislike - to say he's been a liberal in terms of policy is absurd. He, like basically every President before him, has governed far more moderately than he campaigned as. He's done a few liberal things (the stim bill, though that was half tax cuts), the auto industry moves (which worked pretty well, but I'll agree it was a liberal), and putting a temporary hold on the Keystone XL pipeline. But he has also volunteered to cut large amounts of government spending, asked permission to consolidate and reduce a bunch of agencies, signed off on continued and even increased tax cuts including for the wealthy, aided in military intervention in Libya, had Osama bin Laden killed, and opened up a whole slew of new areas for oil drilling.

 

He's been a moderate. I know you really don't want that to be true, but its right there in his record.

 

[kapkomet]

Dang. I had a big ol response and the dang computer lost it.

 

Anyway, long story short, car bailouts, stimulus, excess government in everything, health care, drilling leases were in place before he got there, etc. does not equal moderate. Far from it.

[mr_genius]

Kap, I know you are smarter than this. Like or dislike Obama - and obviously you dislike - to say he's been a liberal in terms of policy is absurd. He, like basically every President before him, has governed far more moderately than he campaigned as. He's done a few liberal things (the stim bill, though that was half tax cuts), the auto industry moves (which worked pretty well, but I'll agree it was a liberal), and putting a temporary hold on the Keystone XL pipeline. But he has also volunteered to cut large amounts of government spending, asked permission to consolidate and reduce a bunch of agencies, signed off on continued and even increased tax cuts including for the wealthy, aided in military intervention in Libya, had Osama bin Laden killed, and opened up a whole slew of new areas for oil drilling.

 

He's been a moderate. I know you really don't want that to be true, but its right there in his record.

 

Obama is a loon. Big spending, anti-America, liberal loon.

[mr_genius]

Hopefully she'll be replaced by a Kucinich clone.

 

I would actually prefer that to who we had

[NorthSideSox72]

Dang. I had a big ol response and the dang computer lost it.

 

Anyway, long story short, car bailouts, stimulus, excess government in everything, health care, drilling leases were in place before he got there, etc. does not equal moderate. Far from it.

 

The car bailouts I give you, I even said that earlier. Thing is, it actually worked, and better than I honestly thought it would. But still, yes, liberal way of thinking.

 

Stimulus bill was half tax cuts, as I noted earlier, which is pretty much a GOP thing, especially during down times. So at best the stimulus was a compromise.

 

Excess government in everything? Aside from health care - which, again, was based on plans not just from Romney but also Congressional Republicans in the 90's - where is Obama putting excess government into everything? He's cut government in lots of areas, but I am having a hard time finding more than one or two areas he has increased it. Show me.

 

Drilling LEASES were in place, what was't in place was opening NEW areas to BE leased.

 

He's been a moderate. He only looks further left because the Republicans decided to go running as far to the right as possible (which I think they are now regretting).

 

[Y2HH]

The car bailouts I give you, I even said that earlier. Thing is, it actually worked, and better than I honestly thought it would. But still, yes, liberal way of thinking.

 

Stimulus bill was half tax cuts, as I noted earlier, which is pretty much a GOP thing, especially during down times. So at best the stimulus was a compromise.

 

Excess government in everything? Aside from health care - which, again, was based on plans not just from Romney but also Congressional Republicans in the 90's - where is Obama putting excess government into everything? He's cut government in lots of areas, but I am having a hard time finding more than one or two areas he has increased it. Show me.

 

Drilling LEASES were in place, what was't in place was opening NEW areas to BE leased.

 

He's been a moderate. He only looks further left because the Republicans decided to go running as far to the right as possible (which I think they are now regretting).

 

He they cut government in a lot of areas while drastically increasing deficit spending. Not sure how that worked, but he they found a way. Hence why his their deficit is STILL over 1 trillion. And stop the Bush crap before you or anyone else here even starts. Bush they spent like irresponsible jackasses then, too.

 

Blaming just Bush or just Obama for what we're seeing right now is equally dumb. It's bad argument after bad argument from both sides, and I'm sick of it.

 

Obama hasn't been a moderate, as a moderate wouldn't have EVER passed that ACA as it was. Then again, that depends on your definition of moderate. People continue to call the ACA as written/passed Obamacare, and it's not even close to what Obama wanted or requested. It's more like Congress/Senate/Lawyer/Lobbiestcare. Calling it that would be more genuine than continuing to call it what it isn't. A true moderate would have rejected that POS and sent it back to the Senate/Congress from whence it came.

 

In my opinion: Obama isn't a loony leftist, he's merely a democrat. I guess in today's watered down f***ed up terms, you could call that a moderate. But to me, a true moderate governs from the center, on some things he/she will lean right, on others left. You can't be a true moderate, IMO, if everything you do leans one way or the other. We haven't had anything like that since Clinton. My scale of rank: Liberal | Democrat | Moderate/Centrist | Republican | NeoCon.

 

I don't think the government under Obama has been ANY better or ANY worse than the administration he replaced...and that's the problem. The USA has continued to step backwards. That's how I see it, so that's how I'm calling it.

 

So long as the citizens of this country continue to elect connected/rich individuals that owe other connected/rich individuals favors to govern the nation, we will continue to have the exact same problems/arguments over and over and over again. I know this because for the past 30+ years, the arguments haven't changed. I've only been alive that long, so that's the only span of time I'll comment on.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

He they cut government in a lot of areas while drastically increasing deficit spending. Not sure how that worked, but he they found a way.

 

Tax receipts fell dramatically thanks to a gigantic recession while at the same time numerous automatic stabilizers/safety nets kicked in to catch millions of people. Actual government employment is down across all levels: federal, state and local.

[Y2HH]

Tax receipts fell dramatically thanks to a gigantic recession while at the same time numerous automatic stabilizers/safety nets kicked in to catch millions of people. Actual government employment is down across all levels: federal, state and local.

 

I know, I know...and they'll fix those tax receipts by having the SAME arguments about closing loopholes and whatnot that we've already heard a billion times over . And depending on the side telling the story, the followers of that 'side' will eat it up and believe it...all the while blaming the other side for 'road blocking' it from happening.

 

...and regardless of who/what, nothing will actually get done.

 

It's the same song and dance. I'm just done listening to the song and dancing for either side.

[StrangeSox]

Well it's still pretty basic and apolitical why the deficit keeps growing. The deficit should expand during a recession.

[Y2HH]

Well it's still pretty basic and apolitical why the deficit keeps growing. The deficit should expand during a recession.

 

Right, and it should collapse during the good times...only it doesn't.

[Balta1701]

Right, and it should collapse during the good times...only it doesn't.

Actually, it did from 1997-2000.

[Y2HH]

Actually, it did from 1997-2000.

 

The deficit went down, but they didn't actually pay down any of the debt...so...it didn't accomplish much.

 

When I say they're supposed to do the opposite in good times, that means they should not only go into a surplus, but they should pay off the debts they collected during the bad times. They don't.

[StrangeSox]

Instead, "they" cut taxes.

[EvilMonkey]

Instead, "they" create new entitlements and programs to use the surplus.

Fixed that for you.

[StrangeSox]

Good point, I forgot about Medicare Part D. And a couple of wars, too, in addition to huge tax cuts that were supposed to usher in a wave of prosperity. One of these days dynamic scoring just has to work!

[Y2HH]

Good point, I forgot about Medicare Part D. And a couple of wars, too, in addition to huge tax cuts that were supposed to usher in a wave of prosperity. One of these days dynamic scoring just has to work!

 

That's right, it's all the republicans fault!

 

You guys make it hard to *not* be condescending or mean, you honestly do.

 

Until you wake up and start realizing it's your own f***ing retarded party just as much as it's the republicans, we can keep rehashing the same arguments they've been having since before we were all born. Honestly, the sad fact is you are all part of the problem. Wake up already.

[StrangeSox]

I'm not a democrat, but, yes, numerical analysis of the current tax and spending structure places a substantial majority of the deficit on Bush's policies.

[Y2HH]

I'm not a democrat, but, yes, numerical analysis of the current tax and spending structure places a substantial majority of the deficit on Bush's policies.

 

Stop.

 

It places just as much blame on Obama's policies for continuing where Bush left off, only at a much more rapid pace. Then, then next guy/gal after this guy can blame him, just as the previous guy blamed the one before, etc...etc...

 

It never ends. Because people like yourself keep repeating the same nonsense you just repeated.

[StrangeSox]

Stop.

 

It places just as much blame on Obama's policies for continuing where Bush left off, only at a much more rapid pace. Then, then next guy/gal after this guy can blame him, just as the previous guy blamed the one before, etc...etc...

 

It never ends. Because people like yourself keep repeating the same nonsense you just repeated.

This is ridiculous on so many levels.

 

Obama is not responsible for the bush tax cuts our iraq or afghanistan, which are the main deficit drivers (plus the crap economy). He is ending two of those things and taking all sorts of s*** for republicans from it. He had an unending desire for a big compromise on entitlement and tax reform, but one party has almost universally pledged never raise taxes ever. Pretending that this is an evenly two-sided problem is part of the problem.

[mr_genius]

I'm not a democrat, but, yes, numerical analysis of the current tax and spending structure places a substantial majority of the deficit on Bush's policies.

 

did Joe Biden happen to be the one whom calculated this numerical analysis for you?